Has anyone heard anything about trading Deng, possibly?

[FirstTimer]

Again, when I say no offense, I mean it. i didn't say it, like I say trying to put down what you know.

You're climbing the ladder of CCS clowns...

Of everything you just said. I would take Granger, Durant, and LBJ over Deng.

Ok..Duh..except you've changed the argument....Deng isn't nearly the 3 point shooter as many of the guys I listed. I wasn't arguing Deng wasn't an overall better player than those guys..even though with the exception of perhaps Kopono I'd rather have any of those guys I named. I was saying he wasn't nearly the 3 point shooter that those guys are so you posting that Deng is in the Top 10 for 3pt % when he took roughly 80 3 pointers all season is asinine.

But those guys aren't an option.

I never said they were. I was simply responding to yuor idiotic statistical "analysis" if you can even call it that of trying to show Deng has any sort of 3pt prowess. Did you not catch on to that?

, Deng still defends better than most SFs, and if you want to compare him, when he was playing on a sprained/sore knee to a lot of SF's, he still did a great job.

Overall Deng is an "average" defender. Is he a better defened than 50% of SF's in the NBA? Maybe. Maybe not. I'd like to see that number quantified rather than dealing with some homer-ific generalization.

Luol Deng is an exceptional shooter,

Correction. Deng is a very good mid range shooter.

Deng is not an exceptional 3pt shooter. He's below average from 3. A few seasons where he has attemtped barely 120 3 pointers total doesn't change his career long trend. On top of that if Deng was such an exceptional shooter from long range...he'd be taking a lot more of them. Flat out.

and yes, I point to those stats, because again, this last Bulls team didn't play a scheme to shoot 3s, and you can't expect progression without repetition.

John Salmons kills your Deng "offense not desgined to shoot 3's" argument. In 26 games for the Bulls in 2008-2009 Salmons, playing the same position as Deng for the same coach in the same system, shot 118 3's. That's nearly 40 more than Deng took all of last season. (Deng took 83 at 1.5 per game) Salmons took around 4.5 3's per game with the Bulls.

In the last THREE SEASONS Deng has taken 125 3's. Salmons took 118 in 26 games for the team a season and a half ago...playing the same position, on the same team, with the same coach, in the same system. The threes are there to be taken. That's obvious. Deng not taking them is a direct function of him knowing it's not his game because he's not that good at them.

You know why Salmons took those? Because he's better from long range and he knows it. Deng is not a long range shooter, thus he doesn't take many threes. Like I said, if Deng could shoot the 3 ball with any consistant skill he would/could do it in the Bulls offense. Salmons proved that.

Melo and 3s? CA is good, but a 3pt shooter, he is not.

Melo>>>>>>>Deng from 3.

Again, no sane basketball observer would argue Deng is better from distance than 'Melo. Not one.

Peja is declining, and all he is really good for, as a starter, would be shooting 3s.

Ok? Again you aren't even following what I'm saying. I wasn't saying I want Peja to be the Bulls SF in general I was pointing out how you posting stats about Deng's 3pt % is horribly skewed by his complete lack of sample size, especially when you look at it compared to other much better 3 point shooters than him. Your entire "analysis" was flawed. Brining up those guys was pointing out an example of why...not listing guys that I want instead of Deng. If you want that list let me know.

Hedo? You brought up Turkoglu? He's the human disappearing act.

See above.

Pietrus is good, but not better than Deng overall. He's like the Ben Gordon of SF's. He's go lights out one day, but let someone score 30 on him the next.

Yeah because Deng is a beacon of consistancy...and again..see above.

Webster has had health issues like Deng, again, nowhere near as good of a defender, and he played on a 3pt friendly scheme.

See above....

Gomes? Really. Delfino, Battier?? You would rather have those guys, than Luol Deng?

See above....again.

I find it amazing you are entirely unable to follow a point.

So you basically want a heat-checker to play SF for this team. When they start hitting shots, you'll feed them to boost their stats, and that would be an upgrade over Deng. Or are you salivating over players that come off the bench, to play against worn down starters, and you instantly think they = starter.

....

Are you doing be a clown yet?

 

[Gustavus Adolphus]

LOL, from the ESPN stats link he posted, if you click the FG% adjusted, Luol Deng is 47th in the league. Behind such guys as....
James Posey
Ron Artest
Luc Richard Mbah a Moute
Steve Nowak
CJ Miles
Carlos Delfino
Omri Casspi

 

[FirstTimer]

LOL, from the ESPN stats link he posted, if you click the FG% adjusted, Luol Deng is 47th in the league. Behind such guys as....
James Posey
Ron Artest
Luc Richard Mbah a Moute
Steve Nowak
CJ Miles
Carlos Delfino
Omri Casspi

41st for Small Forwards....

I revise my previous post..Deng sucks as a shooter in general

 

[ClydeLee]

Deng takes too many comfortable long 2's which give a bad percentage and have a bad payoff, taking the step back for 3's has a higher turn out ratio at least.

I don't know if I even entirely want him traded though if it's just Boozer. They would have to not only add a shooter but add a new SF and more too it, sure they have the money but I don't think the return in the trade is gonna be all enough. Trade Deng and all we hear is next year Melo, Next year Melo.

 

[Gustavus Adolphus]

LOL @ the whole link. Click on 'PPS' (points per shot). It shows that Ryan Bowen who only took 1 shot in the 2009-2010 season, yet he averages a staggering 4.00 points per shot.

 

[FirstTimer]

LOL @ the whole link. Click on 'PPS' (points per shot). It shows that Ryan Bowen who only took 1 shot in the 2009-2010 season, yet he averages a staggering 4.00 points per shot.

4 Point play FTW!

 

[Gustavus Adolphus]

Stephen A. Smith, via twitter...

'Miami Heat prepared to offer Ryan Bowen a max contract because he is the only player in the NBA that can hit the elusive 4-point shot'

Sounds like we might be safe in the Lebron hunt. We win!!!!

 

[Gustavus Adolphus]

Quick question, where did you find this......

BTW, only Gerald Wallace has a better perimeter defense stat to hold other SF's to low 3p%s than Deng.

 

[Crystallas]

You're climbing the ladder of CCS clowns...

Thanks?

Ok..Duh..except you've changed the argument....Deng isn't nearly the 3 point shooter as many of the guys I listed. I wasn't arguing Deng wasn't an overall better player than those guys..even though with the exception of perhaps Kopono I'd rather have any of those guys I named. I was saying he wasn't nearly the 3 point shooter that those guys are so you posting that Deng is in the Top 10 for 3pt % when he took roughly 80 3 pointers all season is asinine.

That's not changing the argument. You're changing it. The whole point of this thread is to trade Deng and upgrade the team by some means. You haven't put out any realistic option to replace Deng, and continue to rip on him for not being a little bit of this player, and a little bit of that. I have seen this argument before. Where is everyone that was hell bent on us trying to keep Deng over Rudy ***. Just read those arguments from around the web.

Falling in love with the thought of LeBron doesn't improve this team, him actually coming here does. There is no point in ripping on one of our best players, when we have other weak areas to attend to.

I never said they were. I was simply responding to yuor idiotic statistical "analysis" if you can even call it that of trying to show Deng has any sort of 3pt prowess. Did you not catch on to that?

Yes, he does have a 3pt shot. And he's getting better at it. You keep referring to his BAD seasons, when he was 19-20-21 years old. Do you even have any idea how much of a gem it is, to find a young player above 6'6" that can shoot in the NBA, let alone a SF? You can count them on one hand, and not all of them can defend. At 24 years old he had shown some major strides. He's not going to be magically worse at 25, 26, 27.

Overall Deng is an "average" defender. Is he a better defened than 50% of SF's in the NBA? Maybe. Maybe not. I'd like to see that number quantified rather than dealing with some homer-ific generalization.

I have been to 39 Bulls games this last season. I sit close to the scoring table, and I can hear most of what the players are complaining about. Deng frustrates the hell out of players. Players yelling to the coaches, "Deng got me going left and I have no lane, we need to switch up" and stuff like that all season long. Teams played more small ball on us because of it, so they could be faster. You don't hear too much about it on TV this year, because that's business as usual, like it has been for the last so many years. Deng is a top defender at SF, and nothing you say will change my mind on the things that I have seen.

Correction. Deng is a very good mid range shooter.

Deng is not an exceptional 3pt shooter. He's below average from 3. A few seasons where he has attemtped barely 120 3 pointers total doesn't change his career long trend. On top of that if Deng was such an exceptional shooter from long range...he'd be taking a lot more of them. Flat out.

See above.

John Salmons kills your Deng "offense not desgined to shoot 3's" argument. In 26 games for the Bulls in 2008-2009 Salmons, playing the same position as Deng for the same coach in the same system, shot 118 3's. That's nearly 40 more than Deng took all of last season. (Deng took 83 at 1.5 per game) Salmons took around 4.5 3's per game with the Bulls.

In the last THREE SEASONS Deng has taken 125 3's. Salmons took 118 in 26 games for the team a season and a half ago...playing the same position, on the same team, with the same coach, in the same system. The threes are there to be taken. That's obvious. Deng not taking them is a direct function of him knowing it's not his game because he's not that good at them.

You know why Salmons took those? Because he's better from long range and he knows it. Deng is not a long range shooter, thus he doesn't take many threes. Like I said, if Deng could shoot the 3 ball with any consistant skill he would/could do it in the Bulls offense. Salmons proved that.

Salmons took those, and we lost more games. Just say it, you want the Bulls to heat check more.

Melo>>>>>>>Deng from 3.

Again, no sane basketball observer would argue Deng is better from distance than 'Melo. Not one.

Melo has that green light to do whatever the hell he wants. JR Smith did whatever he wanted for most of the season. Completely different offense, and Melo is not a 3pt shooter, I wont say Deng is better, but if you want to say Melo is great from 3, then good for you for saying it, but that doesn't make him good from 3.

Ok? Again you aren't even following what I'm saying. I wasn't saying I want Peja to be the Bulls SF in general I was pointing out how you posting stats about Deng's 3pt % is horribly skewed by his complete lack of sample size, especially when you look at it compared to other much better 3 point shooters than him. Your entire "analysis" was flawed. Brining up those guys was pointing out an example of why...not listing guys that I want instead of Deng. If you want that list let me know.

Sure, give me a list. You haven't named anyone that is a realistic option for us, that would present us with an upgrade.

Yeah because Deng is a beacon of consistancy...and again..see above.

In today's league, no SF really is. Too many styles and matchup problems. Even the almighty LeBron has the reputation for choking(while I don't agree with that either when he's only 25).

Are you doing be a clown yet?

Civility.

 

[FirstTimer]

Thanks?

You're welcome?

That's not changing the argument. You're changing it.

My argument was never "Naming guys I'd rather have than Deng". It was "Your statstistical analysis is flawed because CLEARLY some players listed below Deng are obviously more highly regarded 3 point shooter and Deng's sample size is much to small to even start making any statement about him being a better shooter.

I've never waivered from that point and have never stated anything other than that.

You bitching about me wanting Hedo, Peja etc over Deng has nothing to do with anything I ever said

How tough is that to understand?

The whole point of this thread is to trade Deng and upgrade the team by some means.

And my point again, the only point I have EVER made or backed up here was that your stastistical anlysis of Deng's 3 point "prowess" was asinine and flawed beyond belief.

You haven't put out any realistic option to replace Deng

Because that wasn't the point of me posting. Jesus Christ.

Would you like a list of players I'd rather have than Deng at SF?

Yes, he does have a 3pt shot.

So do I....but that doesn't mean I should use it. Manute Bol "had a 3 pt shot" too. Most any NBA player does. The issue at hand is how good/consistant/respected it is.

Deng's isn't highly regarded in any of the above examples.

. You keep referring to his BAD seasons, when he was 19-20-21 years old.

Yeah, I should start looking at the seasons where he his shooting attempts were abrely his age and last season when he averaged a whopping 1 3 pointer per game. Do you even know what a "sample size" is?

Do you even have any idea how much of a gem it is, to find a young player above 6'6" that can shoot in the NBA, let alone a SF?

LOL at Deng being a "gem". Cubic zirconia anyone?

Deng isn't some rare or special player and there are quite a few SF's I'd rather have than him...with out a doubt..and very easily.

Would you like that list?

At 24 years old he had shown some major strides. He's not going to be magically worse at 25, 26, 27.

Odd, I seem to remember him "getting worse" at the tender age of 22 already. He's already regressed once. Its not like it'd be out of character for him to do it again.

Do you even watch the Bulls?

I have been to 39 Bulls games this last season.

Sure you have.

I sit close to the scoring table, and I can hear most of what the players are complaining about.

The annoying kid by the scorers table trying to fellate Luol?

. Players yelling to the coaches, "Deng got me going left and I have no lane, we need to switch up" and stuff like that all season long.

Yeah because the players yelling that directly refutes what everyone sees and does to him when they drive around him easily way to often. I guess the games that everyone else sees where Deng gets burned by athletes don't actually happen................

You don't hear too much about it on TV this year, because that's business as usual, like it has been for the last so many years.

Actually, teams for the last few years were going big because we had Ben Gordon's miniture ass as a starter/playing significant minutes.

Deng is a top defender at SF

He's absolutley not.

Salmons took those, and we lost more games. Just say it, you want the Bulls to heat check more.

*Face palm*. Did you even understand what I posted? My argument wasn't that "John Salmons taking threes made the Bulls better. I <3 Salmons." It was a direct refutation of that fact that you said the Bulls offense doesn't allow players to take threes, especially at SF, when Salmons was jacking threes from 3pt land playing Deng position. Basically your point is bunk.

Melo has that green light to do whatever the hell he wants.

Because he's capable of doing it perhaps?

and Melo is not a 3pt shooter

I never said 'Melo was...I said Melo is a better 3 point shooter thanDeng. I never said 'Melo was the present day equivelant of Steve Kerr.

I wont say Deng is better,

Of course you won't.....

but if you want to say Melo is great from 3

Tell you what..Show me where I said 'Melo is "great" from 3.

And GO!

Sure, give me a list. You haven't named anyone that is a realistic option for us, that would present us with an upgrade.

Ok. You're still NOT getting it. I never said replace Deng this season. Replace Deng with Kyle Korver etc. I simply said Deng isn't all that damn special...and isn't good from 3 point land. I could name a lot of other SF's in the NBA that'd I'd rather have them him. I never said "current free agents". I never came into this thread backing up the fact that we need replace Deng ASAP. I came in here to point out the ridiculous flaws in your analysis and logic.

If you want a list of current FA's I'd rather have then Deng it's going to be a short list(perhaps no list at all). I never said otherwise. However, I never came in here backing the option to cut Deng loose or get rid of him so asking me for guys I want to replace Deng that are free agents is besides the point. I offered you a list of NBA players at the SF position I would rather have. Would you like that one?

In today's league, no SF really is. Too many styles and matchup problems. Even the almighty LeBron has the reputation for choking(while I don't agree with that either when he's only 25).

So you bash Pietrus for his "consistancy" then when it's pointed out Deng is wildly inconsistant it ok because "No SF really is". So what exactly is your argument against Pietrus? Because you can't complain about his inconsistancy because as you put it "no SF really is".

Good work shooting your own argument in the foot.

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

good lord

thats alot of quoting

 

[FirstTimer]

good lord

thats alot of quoting

I was trying to help this ass clown follow along but it didn't work.

 

[Gustavus Adolphus]

Aside from a failure of communication, what we have here is not an understanding of how to look at statistics. So Luol Deng is #9 among SF at shooting the three. If you take the arithmetic mean of the top ten on the list, they have attempted 131.2 three point shots during this past season.

Deng only shot 83. 48.2 below the mean. If you look at Crystallas' second link, Deng took 7.78% of all three pointers the Bulls took last season, as a team. To me it says a number of things....

1. The coaching staff didn't have the confidence in Deng's ability to shoot the three point shot.
2. There is no reason to believe that if Deng attempted 131.2 three pointers he'd be 9th best among SF
3. Teams know that Deng is not much of a three point shooter, and defended his mid range jumper - shown by the fact that he is 41st among SF at two point FGs, and 47th among SF with an adjusted FG%
4. That no matter what, Deng doesn't take enough three pointers to justify some claim that he is even good at.

Stop with these stats. Just stop.

 

[Crystallas]

I was trying to help this ass clown follow along but it didn't work.

Nope. You dug yourself deeper. Seriously, I said 3 times, name a realistic upgrade. You avoid this question, then ask if I want a list, and I say YES, Give me a list.


Geez. I post a link to some 3p% stats, and you go apesh**, as if I base everything on stats. When the truth is, the stats show SOMETHING, not everything, but something.

I'm sorry, but I'm the kind of person that doesn't like when one solution is bashed, but the debate never responds with a specific better solution. This is why we have had stalemate government, and so many miscellaneous problems that never get fixed.

 

[Gustavus Adolphus]

FYI, if we were using the 131.2 as the middle of our bell curve, Deng's 83 3-point shots are two standard deviations below the mean.

 

[FirstTimer]

Nope. You dug yourself deeper. Seriously, I said 3 times, name a realistic upgrade. You avoid this question, then ask if I want a list, and I say YES, Give me a list.

I never not once came into this thread screaming to replace Deng this year with a Free Agent. Show me where I said that. I "dug" myself into nothing.

You're too clueless to get it.

Geez. I post a link to some 3p% stats, and you go apesh**, as if I base everything on stats. When the truth is, the stats show SOMETHING, not everything, but something.

Actually it doesn't show shit.

Here's a stat. .309.

What is it?

I'm sorry, but I'm the kind of person that doesn't like when one solution is bashed

Dipshit.

Again.

Read carefully:

I never bashed your "solution". I never said we should keep Deng or get rid of him. If you can show me ONE post in this thread where I said we should get rid of Deng I'll mouth kiss Prope. Me saying there are other SF's in the NBA I would rather have doesn't mean I'm shipping Deng out on the first train. It serves as a relative comparison of my evaluation that Deng is not as good as you or other fans think he is. I bashed your completely feeble attempt to argue that Deng was any sort of 3 point shooter. Let alone "good"/"exceptional" etc.

That's it.

How can I make this any more simple for you?

. This is why we have had stalemate government, and so many miscellaneous problems that never get fixed.

Because clowns like you are using statistics to try and fix the economy?

 

[Gustavus Adolphus]

^ Not sure I care for a portion of that post.

 

[Gustavus Adolphus]

Geez. I post a link to some 3p% stats, and you go apesh**, as if I base everything on stats. When the truth is, the stats show SOMETHING, not everything, but something.

Basketball statistics only mean something when you understand them. You clearly do not.

 

[FirstTimer]

Here's the list of NBA SF's I would currently rather have:
Paul Pierce
Nicolas Batum
Travis Outlaw,
Mickael Pietrus
Hedo Turkoglu,
Martell Webster
Gerald Wallace
Tayshaun Prince
Kevin Durant
Shane Battier
Danny Granger
LeBron James
Rudy ***
Carmelo Anthony
Caron Butler
Josh Howard
Shawn Marion

That's 17 names.

 

[Anytime23]

If they all were getting paid the same?