I need some help...

[L GUAPO]

Good point! Every company is just handing out positions to non-degreed 30-year olds. I would assume if a company was looking for entry level people, they would look for 20-year olds or (gasp!) someone fresh out of college.

Either way, to have your entire plan consist of "find a job you want to do, have your friend give it to you" is pie-in-the-sky BS. Its not really even a "plan", its a fictional story.

Go away...as usual, no one here agrees with your absolutes in your unsupported posts. Referrals and not having college degrees are a huge part of the industry. It is painfully obvious that you know little about it.

 

[ruprecht]

Lots of great advice and lots of pointless digressing. To the OP best of luck and stay the course.

 

[TexasBearfan]

You can write clean paragraphs and organize your thoughts into sensible paragraphs, you're ahead of more than half of the country already, but to me these qualities bode well for computer programming. I am a programmer and it's really about being able to diagnose things and fixing them or creating new solutions. We have people who went through MIT and some have masters degrees and I only have an associates and have the same experience level they all have. When I lived in Texas we were going to hire a new programmer and I asked what school he went to and my boss said..once you're an adult and working in the field school no longer matters, only skill and experience. I would look for a Co-op school that you could go to at night, if they have one then at some point you get course credit for going to work in your field and if you are good they will try to hire you. Just one avenue to try....also many programmers are being outsourced nowdays, if I had to start over again, I would go into security.....get into some NSA type stuff. These companies need security experts and thats a job some of them cannot outsource. I won't even tell you how much I make but it's way more than 30K man....Just reading your writing you're easily smart enough, honestly to me it's like being a logic mechanic. We just fix logic...

 

[IBleedBearsBlood]

Regardless of money I am glad I took this path. I have 11 months left before I retire and start a new career but I know I will miss it. I would recommend military service to almost any young man. Pick the right branch for you and you will get a lot out of it for you, your family and your future even if its only for one elistment.

I had applied for the Marines a while back. At that time, I didn't have my GED. You needed a GED or a diploma to get in. I thought I could get in like back then in the Army without a GED but it would be for frontline. Then I got married and we had a son. I wouldn't mind still going but I don't want to leave the olé lady and my son alone. There's nothing wrong with people who do, I just don't. Glad your happy about your decision though and I know it also a good path.


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[IBleedBearsBlood]

You obviously didn't pay close attention to what I said.

First, I said national company, not large. Second, he worked tech support, not programming. His experience with programming was ONLY on his own at this point.\

He was then in a mechanical field in the military. Absolutely no help to his resume for what he wanted to do as a career.

How does any of this equate to "see what you want to do, ask your friend for the job"? He had no help getting these positions. No one offered to help him. No friend gave him a job.

The point was that he changed jobs multiple times before getting his chance to do what he wanted. He could have stuck with the first job. He did ok for the area, and really didn't need to change jobs.

He could have stayed in the military. They pay decent and it's pretty secure.

Instead, he kept trying. He saw an opportunity to prove himself and get some experience in what he wanted to do at the 3rd job. He went in and did his assigned job, and also pushed to program on top of it. It seems to have paid off.






I didn't say it was a plan. Other things happened along the way. I took what I was given and made it work.

Having a Master's degree does not make you good at a particular skill. It makes you good at going to school and passing tests. It gives you the knowledge needed to be good at a skill. School is only one part of the process. If I have a person who I feel can be successful, it makes no difference whether they have a degree or not. There are plenty of CEO's of major companies who have no degree.

And I gave no advice. I simply shared my story about how I was able to get a pay level you claimed was impossible without a degree.

Thankfully, most people here understand that those of us offering stories and what not were not advocating to not go to college, simply that there are plenty of instances where more education does not necessarily mean a barrier to getting what you are looking for.



Now on topic: IBBB if you are interested in the field of programming, and would like another person to talk to who actually has done it, let me know. I'm sure my cousin would be more than happy to talk to you and give you advice. He has done hiring for his company, and can tell you what he looked for when hiring, and what others that were in charge of the section looked for. Then you can make an educated decision about which direction to go. I'm sure he'd be happy to help out a fellow Bear fan.

Sounds good man. Thanks a lot. Let me refresh and learn some math and basic coding and I'll let you know when I'm ready for your cousin's help.


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[IBleedBearsBlood]

You can write clean paragraphs and organize your thoughts into sensible paragraphs, you're ahead of more than half of the country already, but to me these qualities bode well for computer programming. I am a programmer and it's really about being able to diagnose things and fixing them or creating new solutions. We have people who went through MIT and some have masters degrees and I only have an associates and have the same experience level they all have. When I lived in Texas we were going to hire a new programmer and I asked what school he went to and my boss said..once you're an adult and working in the field school no longer matters, only skill and experience. I would look for a Co-op school that you could go to at night, if they have one then at some point you get course credit for going to work in your field and if you are good they will try to hire you. Just one avenue to try....also many programmers are being outsourced nowdays, if I had to start over again, I would go into security.....get into some NSA type stuff. These companies need security experts and thats a job some of them cannot outsource. I won't even tell you how much I make but it's way more than 30K man....Just reading your writing you're easily smart enough, honestly to me it's like being a logic mechanic. We just fix logic...

Great advice. Thanks.


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[The Hawk]

Regardless of money I am glad I took this path. I have 11 months left before I retire and start a new career but I know I will miss it. I would recommend military service to almost any young man. Pick the right branch for you and you will get a lot out of it for you, your family and your future even if its only for one elistment.

First of all, Bless you and yours for your service!! Secondly, don't be apprehensive to go to the VA for treatment. It is much better than many people think. Personally, I think that some kind of military and/or public service should be mandatory when kids leave school. Just my opinion.

 

[Love Da Bears]

I will start off by saying that 30 is not too old to reinvent your life. I'm not even using some stupid cliche, like 'you're never to old' blah blah blah. 30 is still very young. As far being a programmer, I will say that you probably have to go to school as you mentioned. My buddy went to DeVry and did his shit there. I would look into it and see what they can offer. Everything I've heard says that it's very manageable, cost wise, and won't put you out in the streets. Best of luck man and good luck with everything.

 

[SERE Bear]

First of all, Bless you and yours for your service!! Secondly, don't be apprehensive to go to the VA for treatment. It is much better than many people think. Personally, I think that some kind of military and/or public service should be mandatory when kids leave school. Just my opinion.

I disagree but do see your point and understand your intentions. An all volunteer force is more effective than a conscripted or compusitory manned military. Couple that with my strong belief in personal freedom and choice and you can see why I would be against it. Finaly I dont want to have to depend on someone would has no desire to be in a position to support me.


Just my .02

 

[Midway Fields]

Yes, as someone that regularly hires employees, a college degree says that you can put up with some level of BS for 4+ years, and you were able to "navigate" the environment and be successful. Also, if I hire a college grad and it doesn't work out, I can defend myself by saying "he had the education". If I hire a non-degreed person, I can only defend myself by saying "I thought he would work out", which is pretty flimsy.

Lol Rory, you little bitch. Regardless of topic, you come across as the biggest cunt.

I also hire on regular basis (majority contractors as perm positions are scarce). If you are hiring someone without a degree, it is likely a referral from someone you trust or you are hiring based of their experience and talking with previous employer. In my field (IT), experience ALWAYS trumps education. When you speak in absolutes as you always do like the little know it all you think you are, it makes everyone hate you. I know you already know this so with that being said, Fuck you.

 

[bearsfaninfl]

Yes, that was my whole point. He didn't just hit his friend up for a job, which seems to be the prevailing "plan" in this thread. It took him several years and working low-end jobs to finally get where he wanted to be. And his resume looked much better than someone with absolutely no experience. The situation isn't all that comparable.

Except that the situation is comparable. The comparison was how it's not too late to make a change in your life. I wasn't speaking to anything beyond that simple point. YOU are the one who keeps trying to compare what I wrote to being advice given. Your way is not the only way, as evidenced by a number of people speaking upon personal experience.

And you're right, his resume did look better due to experience. Which speaks to not necessarily needing a degree in order to succeed in the field. Experience is more valuable. A degree is a great thing, and by no means would I ever discourage someone from getting one. I encouraged my wife to quit her job and go to college at the age of 32. She's 2 years in and she'll be better for it. We were in a position where it was possible, and took advantage of the opportunity.

I never said it made you good at a particular skill. I compared it to your direct point about being "hard-working". You failed to grasp this rather simple concept, so I assume your education level is low. Again, according to you, putting yourself through 19 years of schooling does not indicate a work ethic, but showing up at a building and saying you want a job does. Gotcha. Also, let me know which CEO's have no college education.

In my experience, if you can convince the hiring person to give you a chance, you can PROVE how hard working you are. They don't need to take your word for it. Ask for a small probationary period (which is fairly standard at many companies anyways), and prove that you are worth it. Does it always work? Certainly not. In my case, it certainly did. In my cousin's case, it certainly did. But I know that things are not as black and white as you would have us believe.

Going to school for 19 years may not get you any closer to the job you want, either. Also, at no point did I say going to school for 19 years shows no work ethic.

You can attack me personally if you so choose. It certainly doesn't help your cause, nor does it make you seem any more educated than I do.

Thankfully, I was able to work that internets Googley thingy and get you a link:

http://www.damioluwatoyinbo.com/personal-transformation/world-famous-ceos-without-college-degrees/

Those are just a handful. There are plenty of CEO's without a degree. Is it the norm? Of course not. Nor was I speaking to that being the case. My point is that life can take any number of paths and still lead to success.

 

[nvanprooyen]

Also, let me know which CEO's have no college education.

Some guys who didn't finish college....and some didn't even finish high school: Richard Branson, Michael Dell, Zuckerberg, Paul Allen, Bill Gates and Steve Jobs to name a few. Some of the highest net worth individuals in the world. Losers, all of them.

Before you say "I said no college education"...the person you replying to said no degree.

 

[KittiesKorner]

Bill Cosby dropped out of high school!

Hey, mod, isn't it time for our weekly conspiracy-against-shoopster meeting?

 

[The Hawk]

I think that a lot depends on the field that you want to be in. For example, there are a lot of people who come from two year tech type schools who can command pretty good salaries when they graduate because often they have co-ops with employers who need the particular skill set. I would also encourage anyone in any type of higher education to use their counselors office to try and find them summer co-op jobs. A lot of times, this can give them a leg up on future employment and/or help determine whether they think that they could like that particular field or business.

In my experience also, I would recommend that one stay humble when coming aboard your first organization and not try and impress anyone with how smart you are. Also, try and find someone or someones that you can emulate. In other words, pick their brains when you can. And that is not being a "brown-nose". Personally I had two "mentors" in my career who really showed me what I really needed in my skill set. Funny part is that they didn't even know that I was learning from them when it was happening. This doesn't necessarily happen when you first start but later one in your career.
Bottom line no matter your education level you need to LEARN at every place you work and work hard. Bust your ass. Those who do, generally succeed. Good luck

 

[Midway Fields]

Good point. I speak in absolutes, yet your experience in IT is all-encompassing. Thanks for the heads-up that if I am hiring someone without a degree, it is likely a referral or based on experience...I thought it was normal to hire unqualified people that I don't know who have no experience or education.

"If I hire a non-degreed person, I can only defend myself by saying "I thought he would work out", which is pretty flimsy."

A) You're welcome for the heads up, because based on this^ quote which is what I was responding to, you didn't know.

B) The OP is looking into IT so my experience is relevant. Dumbshitz.

 

[nvanprooyen]

So your advice now is, if you want a cushy 9-5 job, just start your own company, have it become hugely successful, then name yourself CEO and work whenever you want! You don't even need a college degree!

Stop putting words in my mouth. I've stated and restated my advice for the OP's specific circumstance multiple times in this thread. Out.

 

[FirstTimer]

Michael Dell: Texas(pre-med)
Zuckerberg: Harvard
Paul Allen: Washington State
Bill Gates: Harvard
Steve Jobs: Reed College continued to sneak into classes even after dropping out.

Citing these guys as not having a "college education" is dubious as they all actually attended college, one even sneaking into classes after dropping out, and based on the schools they attended were ridiculously smart proven even by their SAT scores. They don't have "degrees" but were college educated in some shape or form to a certain extent

Pretty dubious claim.

 

[Da Coach]

Hop a train for $80 to North Dakota ( assuming you are near Chicago). You can make six figures out there doing just about any job as long as you are willing to work and pass a drug test. Lots of guys do 14 on 14 off and the train makes is affordable to travel back and forth.

 

[Packer Fan]

Good point...what gives a better chance to prove yourself? Having a Masters Degree, or having a Google Maps printout of a building location and going there to beg for a job?

I'm going with Google maps printout. Masters degree doesn't mean that you will find the job interview location.

 

[nvanprooyen]

edit, nm