I need some help...

[PrideisBears]

Anyways - back to the point. If you read what I wrote way earlier, I wasn't discouraging him from getting a degree...just suggesting that there might be a more optimal path. If you want to get into programming, you could get fairly good at it in less than a year if you work hard. Take on some side work, get a little experience and land an entry level job. Bust your ass for the next 2-3 years and you could be in a pretty good spot financially. To me that is more optimal by getting sucked into 2-4 years of formal education, the accompanying debt associated with that and probably going to need to learn a shit ton anyways just to get up to speed. My 2 cents.

Stop advocating for a dumber society, asshole.

 

[nvanprooyen]

I never attacked your qualifications. Just your ability, or lack thereof, to actually see the broader picture. To really put into context what you are saying. You are advocating for a dumber society. And that, my friend, is pretty stupid.

You are equating formal education with being educated. Which isn't the case if you have the drive to self educate.

 

[FirstTimer]

Anyways - back to the point. If you read what I wrote way earlier, I wasn't discouraging him from getting a degree...just suggesting that there might be a more optimal path. If you want to get into programming, you could get fairly good at it in less than a year if you work hard. Take on some side work, get a little experience and land an entry level job. Bust your ass for the next 2-3 years and you could be in a pretty good spot financially. To me that is more optimal by getting sucked into 2-4 years of formal education, the accompanying debt associated with that and probably going to need to learn a shit ton anyways just to get up to speed. My 2 cents.

Optimal would be bust ass and get in a company that does CEC or tuition reimbursement. get your degree for half the cost while still working. Obviously depends on the job field you get into but that's how I 'm getting my Master's paid for.

 

[Ares]

Stop advocating for a dumber society, asshole.

Why is everyone being so snorchy to Nvan?

 

[Bearin' Down]

You are equating formal education with being educated. Which isn't the case if you have the drive to self educate.

LOL, are you kidding right now? This isn't Good Will Hunting. Universities have been around for centuries because they work. Sure, you can learn on your own, but if you are counting on a populous to self educate you are doomed.

 

[botfly10]

One thing to note here - a degree really depends on the employer. When I'm hiring someone personally for a position like this a degree is very low on the list of what is important to me. Talent and experience are the most important (for me anyways). The ability to problem solve independently is also very important. Often I would put attitude and personality above a degree even. Just my 2 cents. For the record, I do not have a degree....and I am a C level executive at a publicly traded company. I'm not trying to discourage you from pursuing education in general, just throwing out there that you may be able to get out of your situation without committing to formal education for an extended period of time. If you are interested in programming, find some good training resources (tons of good stuff out there for free) and start writing code. Then write some more.

General education is less important than actual skills directly relevant to the job you are trying to get.

To say that another way...

Every person with a successful career at some point was hired for a job they were unqualified for. That just how it is.

Why? Because school teaches you knowledge, but not skills. Skills are learned on the job.

Whats that mean for someone trying to start a new career?

It means that you need a break to get started. You have to find a way to get hired to a low level position that you aren't qualified for. It sounds counter intuitive but its just how shit works.

How do you get a job you aren't qualified for? This is tricky. One way is to be young, energetic, and unattached. These people get hired cause employers gamble that they will work their asses off.

Another way is to know somebody. Probably the best way. Every industry you are interested has a community, often a regional one. These communities are almost always small and people tend to all know each other. The key is to find a way into the community and to make contacts. At the end of the day, the most important qualification for a job is that people like you and they like being around you. If you can make friends with people in the community, you will get your foot in the door no problem.

 

[nvanprooyen]

Optimal would be bust ass and get in a company that does CEC or tuition reimbursement. get your degree for half the cost while still working. Obviously depends on the job field you get into but that's how I 'm getting my Master's paid for.

Sure - there are multiple roads, yours sounds like a good one. But from the OP's original post, it didn't sound like that kind of thing was really in the cards.

 

[FirstTimer]

I will throw this out there.... if you can get reasonably good with database query languages and associated tools.... places are always looking for IT Operations people to come in and work. IT Operations for my company is half running ETL processing (Extract, Transform, Load) and half developing stuff for dealing with our data.

One of the guys I work with is a Navy Vet with no degree, he is just a self-taught SQL programmer who is now a senior developer making good money.

IMO learning SQL Server and SSIS and getting a starting position in a company that needs an Operations guy for 45-55k would be a reasonable route to take as I work with an example who actually did it.

If you can learn some of that stuff and understand enough to get your foot in the door somewhere, you can make a career out of it.

I got a CS degree from UIUC and its a great thing to have and taught me a great deal about programming, but at the end of the day you can learn enough to do alot of this work outside of a University.

That's why I tell anyone that will listen the internships your college can get you hooked up with many times alone is worth the price of the degree.

 

[Bearin' Down]

Yeah I was talking about the fact that regardless if you have a degree it still isnt easy to get into your field of work. I have a Bachelors in Science and was cum lade (despite never wanting to do shit) but I still haven't gotten into what I want even with internships.No one here is saying that getting a college degree is unnecessary, it just doesnt guarantee success

Okay, so you are unable to get jobs or internships in your desired field (which I'm guessing is a niche of the broader field) right out of school? Well guess what, most people struggle to do that as well. Most people have to work a long time before they can move to where they want to be. Can you honestly tell me that there is no way for you to get relevant experience with your qualifications at this time? If you do tell me that, I'll tell you that you simply aren't trying hard enough. On top of that, what avenues have you explored in pursuing your desired career? Just responding to careerbuilder.com?

 

[botfly10]

That's why I tell anyone that will listen the internships your college can get you hooked up with many times alone is worth the price of the degree.

And the most important part about internships are the people you meet. Make a good impression, score a killer reference, and you will get a job.

At the end of the day, its references that get you jobs.

 

[RacerX]

Yes, as someone that regularly hires employees, a college degree says that you can put up with some level of BS for 4+ years, and you were able to "navigate" the environment and be successful. Also, if I hire a college grad and it doesn't work out, I can defend myself by saying "he had the education". If I hire a non-degreed person, I can only defend myself by saying "I thought he would work out", which is pretty flimsy.

Agreed, and it's also true that not all college degrees are equal. Scraping by to earn a degree in 5 years at a below-average university is a far cry from graduating with honors at a respectable/good university. My point being, this is an area where generalizations are precarious, I only jumped in because I thought the rally cries for skipping college were reaching too far.

 

[nvanprooyen]

Agreed, and it's also true that not all college degrees are equal. Scraping by to earn a degree in 5 years at a below-average university is a far cry from graduating with honors at a respectable/good university. My point being, this is an area where generalizations are precarious, I only jumped in because I thought the rally cries for skipping college were reaching too far.

Fair enough.

 

[Broc]

Also, does anyone here have any idea how business works? Do you understand that many companies are multi-billion dollar organizations?

I do. I work for one of those multi-billion dollar corporations you speak of. Here's how it works (at least at where I work)...

Large corporations outsource the low level stuff to recruiters and placement firms. The recruiters work with the internal HR departments to help them match up the millions of candidates with the few open reqs and schedule interviews. Good fucking luck going that route... Having all the prereqs in the world doesn't do you much good when you're in a paper stack with 8 million other people who all have those same prereqs.

The best advice as always is networking. Like they say, it's who you know not what you know. It's not a cliche for nothing. If you don't have an in somewhere all the skills and prereqs aren't going to make a bit of difference. I sent out literally hundreds of resumes after graduating college to every tech or software company in Buffalo, Rochester and everywhere in between. Nothing but automated email replies and bullshit back. I give my resume to my cousin who at the time worked at my current company who in turns hands it to his director, and like magic I get an interview the next day and have been working here since.

That said, if anyone is a highly skilled programmer and/or software tester/engineer and would like a cushy office job in sunny south Florida PM me and I'll gladly hook you up with a referral (if you're not an dickbag poster that is).

 

[RacerX]

General education is less important than actual skills directly relevant to the job you are trying to get.

To say that another way...

Every person with a successful career at some point was hired for a job they were unqualified for. That just how it is.

Why? Because school teaches you knowledge, but not skills. Skills are learned on the job.

Whats that mean for someone trying to start a new career?

It means that you need a break to get started. You have to find a way to get hired to a low level position that you aren't qualified for. It sounds counter intuitive but its just how shit works.

How do you get a job you aren't qualified for? This is tricky. One way is to be young, energetic, and unattached. These people get hired cause employers gamble that they will work their asses off.

Another way is to know somebody. Probably the best way. Every industry you are interested has a community, often a regional one. These communities are almost always small and people tend to all know each other. The key is to find a way into the community and to make contacts. At the end of the day, the most important qualification for a job is that people like you and they like being around you. If you can make friends with people in the community, you will get your foot in the door no problem.

Regarding the bolded comment: true, but without the education you may never get in the door to prove yourself. What's more important than getting in the door and earning an opportunity to prove yourself?

 

[Bearin' Down]

Agreed, and it's also true that not all college degrees are equal. Scraping by to earn a degree in 5 years at a below-average university is a far cry from graduating with honors at a respectable/good university. My point being, this is an area where generalizations are precarious, I only jumped in because I thought the rally cries for skipping college were reaching too far.

This is precisely why I spoke up. It was getting out of hand.

 

[botfly10]

I think the emerging theme is knowing people.

The name of the game is establishing contacts within the community you want to work. People have mentioned a lotta different ways to do that in here.

 

[PrideisBears]

This is precisely why I spoke up. It was getting out of hand.

Who said to skip college? And I have an internship to the job I want but an unpaid internship doesnt settle those beautiful student loans I've earned. Will I keep trying? Of course

 

[PrideisBears]

I think the emerging theme is knowing people.

The name of the game is establishing contacts within the community you want to work. People have mentioned a lotta different ways to do that in here.

Yep said this earlier. Much easier to get a job when someone on the inside is there to vouch for you

 

[Culpfiction]

Ever thought about th navy? I dont have a college degree. Started out at the bottom of the barrel 7 years ago. Now i make over 70K a year, and my kids can go to college for free when I hit ten years. Pretty good deal

I don't want to not believe you, but : A WO-4 with 7 years makes $57,132 base pay/year before taxes. I know this doesn't include housing allowances, bas, etc, etc,. But this is also assuming you're a WO-4 after 7 years, which would be pretty damn impressive.

Again, maybe you do, but the average military member that is enlisted (not having a college degree as you stated) surely isn't making even close to $70,000 after 7 years time in service.

Source: 12 years active Duty Marine Corps enlisted not making $70,000/year

 

[RacerX]

You Marines are seriously underpaid. Respect. Oohrah!!!