I need some help...

[FirstTimer]

I just hired a kid (24) like a week ago. No degree. 55k base to start. Kids got it. Rory is full of shit (at least in this industry). For the record, I had 10 applicants that had degrees...they simply weren't as talented.

Did he have years of related job experience? What made the degree obsolete or unneeded?

 

[RacerX]

I think some of you are seriously understating the value of a college education. Not in every job scenario, but in quite a few, especially the higher up the corporate ladder one rises.

In my eyes, as someone that hired countless employees, I see a college graduate not necessarily as someone smarter, but someone with proven discipline and foresight. Someone that is slightly more likely to fit into (conform) a corporate workplace.

To be fair, for some positions I would really only place value on experience, but those positions are lower in the org-chart and tend to pay less.

 

[Bearin' Down]

All a college degree is, is a glorified piece of paper from someone who might have copy and pasted a bunch of information off of Wikipedia google or someone else's research...

The reason so many people with college degree's don't have jobs isn't because the market doesn't have jobs to offer... its because the jobs that people have to offer have little or nothing to do with many people's degrees...

Why should a company pay 60,000 dollars for someone with a degree when you can train someone on the job for 30,000 without a degree and make them take career advancement classes specific to their job requirements...

I know too many people who have degree's in shit that isn't going to pay big money or doesn't have a in demand job market and they are held by their parents and peers to use the degree that they chose as 18 year old kids coming out of highschool... it is so ridiculous...

Engineering, technology, healthcare, programming seem to always have a demand for employee's

but no one is going to hire you for any of these jobs with a degree in fashion design, art, business or liberal arts

So while the country is saturated with degree's... it is saturated by a bunch of people with degree's that don't offer any specialized skills or training and aren't valuable to anyone that might hire them... This means people will have to train them on the job expecting people to pay 50000+ for an employee that still needs to develop skills in order to do his job at a high enough level to meet demand...
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This is the problem with the country[/QUOTE

Absolutely agree with you on this and even the engineering,tech,healthcare degrees arent all they are cracked up to be because in a lot of cases you have to know someone to get into whatever field you are trying to get into. I cant speak for everyone but the moment you graduate you are going to lose about 50% of what you slaved over to learn in the first place so no matter what you will have to be re trained regardless of what you are doing

LOL, what? I'm sorry, you've lost all credibility. Either that or you need to be more specific. An engineering degree isn't something easy to obtain. It's rather difficult, and does require quite a bit of education. Sure, some people do a lot without one, but not the majority of people. The tech field, fine, i'll give you that seeing as how most of that is coding now anyways. But the absolute worst thing that you've stated is healthcare degrees. I'll tell you what, I'll go to the doctor's office with the PhD and the registered nurses you go to the fake doctor with the fake nurses who have had no formal education on human anatomy.

What's absolutely clear to me is that you, and several other posters here, fail to actually grasp the importance of an education. Not only does it lead to higher incomes, it also enables society to advance further. It's pretty clear to me that a lot of this b.s. is coming from short sighted people. Having said that, college degrees today are high school degrees of the past.

To the OP, you should look into becoming a dental hygenist or a paralegal. Those are high paying fields that only require a little bit more education.

 

[nvanprooyen]

Did he have years of related job experience? What made the degree obsolete or unneeded?

Nothing made the degree obsolete or unneeded. He was simply more talented than the other people who applied. I've hired a LOT of people over the course of my career and I've rarely been wrong. Most have turned out to be rock stars. I get that there are fields where what I'm saying doesn't translate - medical, law, investment banking etc...but when it comes to the Internet (specifically in a startup like environment) your formal education is very low on my list of criteria.

 

[FirstTimer]

Nothing made the degree obsolete or unneeded. He was simply more talented than the other people who applied. I've hired a LOT of people over the course of my career and I've rarely been wrong. Most have turned out to be rock stars. I get that there are fields where what I'm saying doesn't translate - medical, law, investment banking etc...but when it comes to the Internet (specifically in a startup like environment) your formal education is very low on my list of criteria.

Why? How?

There's a bigger point here I'm trying to get at if applicable.

 

[nvanprooyen]

Yeah, I'm not "helping" by explaining what reality is.

Most small businesses don't have the luxury of hiring non-degreed people for $30K at entry level and have them work 9-5. When I worked for a small business in my first job, I had a college degree, made $40k, and worked my ass off for 2 years, regularly working 6 days a week often times until 8pm at night. If you somehow think that "small business" is an easy street to cushy 9-5 work, then I have to ask...has anyone who is posting advice in this thread EVER held a job???

Where did I say it was cushy? Trust me Rory, I have WAY more experience in this area than you do. Just stop.

 

[Bearin' Down]

Nothing made the degree obsolete or unneeded. He was simply more talented than the other people who applied. I've hired a LOT of people over the course of my career and I've rarely been wrong. Most have turned out to be rock stars. I get that there are fields where what I'm saying doesn't translate - medical, law, investment banking etc...but when it comes to the Internet (specifically in a startup like environment) your formal education is very low on my list of criteria.

Oh, so this is a startup that you run. Makes sense. I know plenty of people who didn't get their formal degrees in IT and are reaping the benefits of high paying jobs bc they had advanced IT skills. It's still shortsighted though, as we should not be advocating getting less of an education. If we do that, we will be advocating less advancements in nearly every industry across the board. The more knowledge that is out there, the better.

 

[FirstTimer]

Where did I say it was cushy? Trust me Rory, I have WAY more experience in this area than you do. Just stop.

LOL.

 

[Bearin' Down]

I would recommend walking into a small business, yell "I want a job!" at the top of your lungs, and someone will eventually cave and give you a salaried position at $30k+/yr that works 9am-5pm Monday thru Friday.

Why was this directed at me?

 

[FirstTimer]

Oh, so this is a startup that you run. Makes sense. I know plenty of people who didn't get their formal degrees in IT and are reaping the benefits of high paying jobs bc they had advanced IT skills. It's still shortsighted though, as we should not be advocating getting less of an education. If we do that, we will be advocating less advancements in nearly every industry across the board. The more knowledge that is out there, the better.

Ding ding ding.

Ok, so he didn't have his degree or it's low on the criteria list? Why? Real world job experience? Generally talented? How'd he get that talent? How was it proven? Yes, in very narrow circumstances real life experiences can make an education less of a strict requirement but in reality that's a pretty narrow scope and not really indicative of the business world as a whole.

 

[nvanprooyen]

Why? How?

There's a bigger point here I'm trying to get at if applicable.

He did have some experience if that is what you are driving it. Comparable to the other candidates or maybe even a little less. This was a design position and his portfolio blew the others out of the water. Plus he had "it". Too hard to quantify here without writing a novella.

 

[FirstTimer]

He did have some experience if that is what you are driving it. Comparable to the other candidates or maybe even a little less. This was a design position and his portfolio blew the others out of the water. Plus he had "it". Too hard to quantify here without writing a novella.

As per my previous post

Ding ding ding.

Ok, so he didn't have his degree or it's low on the criteria list? Why? Real world job experience? Generally talented? How'd he get that talent? How was it proven? Yes, in very narrow circumstances real life experiences can make an education less of a strict requirement but in reality that's a pretty narrow scope and not really indicative of the business world as a whole.

I understand the "it" thing. No need to explain that.

 

[nvanprooyen]

Oh, so this is a startup that you run. Makes sense. I know plenty of people who didn't get their formal degrees in IT and are reaping the benefits of high paying jobs bc they had advanced IT skills. It's still shortsighted though, as we should not be advocating getting less of an education. If we do that, we will be advocating less advancements in nearly every industry across the board. The more knowledge that is out there, the better.

Before this I ran my own business. Before that I was the CMO of a company that did around 50M online a year. Before that I was an EVP at a company with over $1B in annual volume. I've hired the same way all places. Next?

 

[Bearin' Down]

Yes, your plan is too logical and specific. Its almost offensive, and has no place in this thread. We are all giving real advice here, such as "hit up your friend for a job, dude!"

Oh, lol, I see now. Yeah, it's pretty non-sensical that people are advocating for a less educated population. Pick a trade, learn, and go do it. Part of the OP's problem seems to be his general attitude. He wants to relearn everything and hope it makes him more desirable. Well, instead of relearning what you've already learned, go learn something new and improve yourself. Every is already assuming you know what you learned in grade school and high school. The GED seems to indicate that too, despite how he feels on the subject.

 

[FirstTimer]

Before that I was an EVP at a company

You were in White Noise?

 

[Bearin' Down]

Before this I ran my own business. Before that I was the CMO of a company that did around 50M online a year. Before that I was an EVP at a company with over $1B in annual volume. I've hired the same way all places. Next?

I never attacked your qualifications. Just your ability, or lack thereof, to actually see the broader picture. To really put into context what you are saying. You are advocating for a dumber society. And that, my friend, is pretty stupid.

 

[PrideisBears]

LOL, what? I'm sorry, you've lost all credibility. Either that or you need to be more specific. An engineering degree isn't something easy to obtain. It's rather difficult, and does require quite a bit of education. Sure, some people do a lot without one, but not the majority of people. The tech field, fine, i'll give you that seeing as how most of that is coding now anyways. But the absolute worst thing that you've stated is healthcare degrees. I'll tell you what, I'll go to the doctor's office with the PhD and the registered nurses you go to the fake doctor with the fake nurses who have had no formal education on human anatomy.

What's absolutely clear to me is that you, and several other posters here, fail to actually grasp the importance of an education. Not only does it lead to higher incomes, it also enables society to advance further. It's pretty clear to me that a lot of this b.s. is coming from short sighted people. Having said that, college degrees today are high school degrees of the past.

To the OP, you should look into becoming a dental hygenist or a paralegal. Those are high paying fields that only require a little bit more education.

Yeah I was talking about the fact that regardless if you have a degree it still isnt easy to get into your field of work. I have a Bachelors in Science and was cum lade (despite never wanting to do shit) but I still haven't gotten into what I want even with internships.No one here is saying that getting a college degree is unnecessary, it just doesnt guarantee success

 

[nvanprooyen]

Anyways - back to the point. If you read what I wrote way earlier, I wasn't discouraging him from getting a degree...just suggesting that there might be a more optimal path. If you want to get into programming, you could get fairly good at it in less than a year if you work hard. Take on some side work, get a little experience and land an entry level job. Bust your ass for the next 2-3 years and you could be in a pretty good spot financially. To me that is more optimal by getting sucked into 2-4 years of formal education, the accompanying debt associated with that and probably going to need to learn a shit ton anyways just to get up to speed. My 2 cents.

 

[Ares]

I will throw this out there.... if you can get reasonably good with database query languages and associated tools.... places are always looking for IT Operations people to come in and work. IT Operations for my company is half running ETL processing (Extract, Transform, Load) and half developing stuff for dealing with our data.

One of the guys I work with is a Navy Vet with no degree, he is just a self-taught SQL programmer who is now a senior developer making good money.

IMO learning SQL Server and SSIS and getting a starting position in a company that needs an Operations guy for 45-55k would be a reasonable route to take as I work with an example who actually did it.

If you can learn some of that stuff and understand enough to get your foot in the door somewhere, you can make a career out of it.

I got a CS degree from UIUC and its a great thing to have and taught me a great deal about programming, but at the end of the day you can learn enough to do alot of this work outside of a University.

 

[FirstTimer]

Yeah I was talking about the fact that regardless if you have a degree it still isnt easy to get into your field of work. I have a Bachelors in Science and was cum lade (despite never wanting to do shit) but I still haven't gotten into what I want even with internships.No one here is saying that getting a college degree is unnecessary, it just doesn't guarantee success

Nothing guarantees success and no one should ever say it does but you really want to sit down and look at overall income and happiness indexes of people with degrees versus those without them? There are exceptions on both sides of the aisle but what we are looking at and talking about should be the researched norm.