IGT: Heat vs BULLS Monday January 25th @ 7:00pm on CSN

[Gustavus Adolphus]

Anyways, when you're on year 6 of being this supposed terrific core and this amazing BENCH MOB, and you don't win anything, I imagine it wears on a group. Then you no longer have the coach who yelled himself hoarse on the defensive end, so now you're forced to talk to each other more and you find out that you don't really like each other. Don't forget about the fallen star who thinks he is the player he once was, but in reality is arguably the worst valued contract in the entire association. How about the budding superstar that bet on himself, won, but has probably hit his ceiling. Finally you an offensive minded coach who for whatever reason can't run his own system right now.

This team is a fucking chore to watch.

 

[clonetrooper264]

Watching the Warriors is way more fun

 

[Scoot26]

Watching the Warriors is way more fun

NEVER GET TO WATCH THEM. CANT STAY UP THAT LATE! :-v

 

[Axl Rose]

If you want to go down this road, then I continue with the same. I'll cherry pick the offensive guys just the same, and claim Hoiberg was given a better fit, or some would say, a "max" fit.

who? don't make me laugh by rattling off names such as Doug, Niko & Snell. Nikola had one good month last year and the other 2 never proved anything and weren't the proven commodities that Noah, Deng, Taj, Brewer and Rose were

Gasol is great offensively but not a fit in a uptempo system, Rose is far too inconsistent and Jimmy wants to isolate instead of running a structured offesne...i'll admit that one is on Hoiberg to reel in

 

[GalePayton]

Don't forget about the fallen star who thinks he is the player he once was, but in reality is arguably the worst valued contract in the entire association.

Lol What in the hell are you rambling on about?

When Rose is laid back and defers to Jimmy Butler, you guys claim that he doesn't care and is being lazy.

Now that Rose is being assertive and trying to score points for this struggling team, you insinuate that he arrogantly thinks that he's an MVP again.

The guy has rehabbed back from 3 major knee injuries AFTER ALREADY signing guaranteed contracts worth a combined $100+ million from the Bulls and Adidas.

Do you realize how silly your rationale is?

 

[Gustavus Adolphus]

Lol What in the hell are you rambling on about?

When Rose is laid back and defers to Jimmy Butler, you guys claim that he doesn't care and is being lazy.

Now that Rose is being assertive and trying to score points for this struggling team, you insinuate that he arrogantly thinks that he's an MVP again.

The guy has rehabbed back from 3 major knee injuries AFTER ALREADY signing guaranteed contracts worth a combined $100+ million from the Bulls and Adidas.

Do you realize how silly your rationale is?

My rationale is based on statistics and metrics vs. what he is currently being paid. My rationale is also based on his comments at the beginning of the season where he, unprompted, talked about his contract in 2017.

 

[cjswan232482]

My rationale is based on statistics and metrics vs. what he is currently being paid. My rationale is also based on his comments at the beginning of the season where he, unprompted, talked about his contract in 2017.

So are you saying that Rose should not have played thru a broken orbital bone when he could barely see? Those are the metrics where those stats are based. Rose has been averaging close to 19 a game on 48% shooting since discarding the mask. Basically since Christmas. That is what playing thru injury looks like. I imagine if Rose tried to play after his knee injury before feeling ready and struggled you would have said the same thing.

 

[Scoot26]

So are you saying that Rose should not have played thru a broken orbital bone when he could barely see. Those are the metrics where those stats are based. Rose has been averaging close to 19 a game on 48% shooting since discarding the mask. Basically since Christmas. That is what playing thru injury looks like. I imagine if Rose tried to play after his knee injury before feeling ready and struggled you would have said the same thing.

Can we consider Christmas as to when he was over his eye injury? 19 ppg and 48% shooting is not MVP numbers, which as Prope (sorry Gus) insinuated in that Rose still thinks he's the MVP and he's not playing like one.

 

[Gustavus Adolphus]

So are you saying that Rose should not have played thru a broken orbital bone when he could barely see? Those are the metrics where those stats are based. Rose has been averaging close to 19 a game on 48% shooting since discarding the mask. Basically since Christmas. That is what playing thru injury looks like. I imagine if Rose tried to play after his knee injury before feeling ready and struggled you would have said the same thing.

Do you still think Rose is the #1 option on this team, and do you think he deserves a max contract?

 

[knoxville7]

So are you saying that Rose should not have played thru a broken orbital bone when he could barely see? Those are the metrics where those stats are based. Rose has been averaging close to 19 a game on 48% shooting since discarding the mask. Basically since Christmas. That is what playing thru injury looks like. I imagine if Rose tried to play after his knee injury before feeling ready and struggled you would have said the same thing.

you also realize that in the same time frame(since Christmas/new years) his assist numbers and rebound numbers have dropped, while his turnovers have gone up, right? so yes, hes scoring 3 or 4 more points per game and shooting a bit better....but the rest of his game has regressed even further. but I guess when all you care about is PPG, your view of him can be off base

 

[clonetrooper264]

you also realize that in the same time frame(since Christmas/new years) his assist numbers and rebound numbers have dropped, while his turnovers have gone up, right? so yes, hes scoring 3 or 4 more points per game and shooting a bit better....but the rest of his game has regressed even further. but I guess when all you care about is PPG, your view of him can be off base

I maintain that the assists thing is not entirely Rose's fault. But that could be considered splitting hairs I guess. In the grand scheme, Rose is playing better, but not great.

 

[knoxville7]

I maintain that the assists thing is not entirely Rose's fault. But that could be considered splitting hairs I guess. In the grand scheme, Rose is playing better, but not great.

if it was just a game or two sure. but are you contending that every game since 2016 rolled around its his teammates fault every time that his assist numbers continue to suck? I just don't buy that...other guys on the team manage to get dimes still :shrug:

 

[cjswan232482]

Can we consider Christmas as to when he was over his eye injury? 19 ppg and 48% shooting is not MVP numbers, which as Prope (sorry Gus) insinuated in that Rose still thinks he's the MVP and he's not playing like one.

Do you want Rose to defer to Jimmy or not? It seems the more Rose asserts himself the more some people complain. Tell me im wrong.

No doubt Rose is still confident in his game. I find it funny that some people even find that offensive.

 

[clonetrooper264]

if it was just a game or two sure. but are you contending that every game since 2016 rolled around its his teammates fault every time that his assist numbers continue to suck? I just don't buy that...other guys on the team manage to get dimes still :shrug:

Rose still leads the team in assists per game and is second in total assists (Jimmy has obviously played way more games than him). I'm not saying Rose is passing all the time and every time he does his teammates miss every shot, but I am saying that's happened fairly often all season from what I've seen. Rose is also generally passing less because he is shooting more, as tends to happen as you only have so many possession per game. Part of that is on him, but part of that is scheme as well. There's been more Rose iso lately since he's been able to actually score in those situations compared to earlier where he would almost exclusively pass.

Point is, it's a mix of a lot of things, but much like I'm not arguing that his teammates are screwing him out of all his assists, I'm sure you're not arguing that never ever passes.

 

[Enasic]

People have been using the "Rose's teammates miss so his assists totals are lower than they should" argument since his MVP year. The fact is, every PG sets up their teammates only to have them miss. The main difference is, they set them up more often, giving them more chances, leading to higher assist totals. Rose is a shoot first player who is still trying to find that balance of scoring enough points while also setting up his teammates. In addition, Fred's preference is ball movement and swinging the ball around and not having one guy as the play maker. I remember at the beginning of the year, Rose said there's no reason he shouldn't average 7 APG with this roster. I agree with him...but it hasn't translated because he's not passing enough to get those totals. Unless you expect his teammates to hit every shot he passes them the ball, he needs to start passing more and giving them more chances if he's going to be a 7 APG player again.

 

[czman]

People have been using the "Rose's teammates miss so his assists totals are lower than they should" argument since his MVP year. The fact is, every PG sets up their teammates only to have them miss. The main difference is, they set them up more often, giving them more chances, leading to higher assist totals. Rose is a shoot first player who is still trying to find that balance of scoring enough points while also setting up his teammates. In addition, Fred's preference is ball movement and swinging the ball around and not having one guy as the play maker. I remember at the beginning of the year, Rose said there's no reason he shouldn't average 7 APG with this roster. I agree with him...but it hasn't translated because he's not passing enough to get those totals. Unless you expect his teammates to hit every shot he passes them the ball, he needs to start passing more and giving them more chances if he's going to be a 7 APG player again.

That is all that needs to be said.

 

[knoxville7]

Rose still leads the team in assists per game and is second in total assists (Jimmy has obviously played way more games than him). I'm not saying Rose is passing all the time and every time he does his teammates miss every shot, but I am saying that's happened fairly often all season from what I've seen. Rose is also generally passing less because he is shooting more, as tends to happen as you only have so many possession per game. Part of that is on him, but part of that is scheme as well. There's been more Rose iso lately since he's been able to actually score in those situations compared to earlier where he would almost exclusively pass.

Point is, it's a mix of a lot of things, but much like I'm not arguing that his teammates are screwing him out of all his assists, I'm sure you're not arguing that never ever passes.

i guess what im really trying to say is, rose is a PG only because of stature. he isn't really a PG....hes a 2 guard in a PG's body(and a bad one at that). I personally just don't see any roster with him as the starting PG working out at this point. he doesn't make his teammates around him better. hoibergs offense runs better when kirk is the PG, but of course kirk is pushing 40 and can only play 10 min every other game at this point lol

 

[clonetrooper264]

i guess what im really trying to say is, rose is a PG only because of stature. he isn't really a PG....hes a 2 guard in a PG's body(and a bad one at that). I personally just don't see any roster with him as the starting PG working out at this point. he doesn't make his teammates around him better. hoibergs offense runs better when kirk is the PG, but of course kirk is pushing 40 and can only play 10 min every other game at this point lol

I guess you could've said the same thing 5 years ago when Rose was actually good. The only time Rose has ever been pass first in his pro career has been in FIBA. But yes, he's a score first guard...always has been, likely always will be. Face facts, Rose only averaged 8 assists per game when his usage percentage was through the roof. Basically when every possession was running through him. If you want Rose to average 8 assists at his current usage, he's only going to score like 13 points a game. Perhaps that's ok with you.

Idk...you can't really win with anything regarding Rose. There's always something to knock on with him right now.

 

[knoxville7]

I guess you could've said the same thing 5 years ago when Rose was actually good. The only time Rose has ever been pass first in his pro career has been in FIBA. But yes, he's a score first guard...always has been, likely always will be. Face facts, Rose only averaged 8 assists per game when his usage percentage was through the roof. Basically when every possession was running through him. If you want Rose to average 8 assists at his current usage, he's only going to score like 13 points a game. Perhaps that's ok with you.

Idk...you can't really win with anything regarding Rose. There's always something to knock on with him right now.

that's my point though. he was actually really really good, MVP level good. when you have a scoring first PG, he has to be really really good to get away with that kind of basketball. he isn't anymore is the problem, and now those shortcomings are even more exposed.

 

[Enasic]

Personally, I don't want to see Rose averaging a bunch of assists. I think he's at his best when he's in attack mode and getting 6-8 assists per night. That's not to say that's the magic recipe, but he's obviously better scoring points than he is at being John Stockton. I'd be happy if he ended the year averaging 6 APG which is still do-able. I predicted 20 and 6 for him before the season and the eye injury really messed that up.