IHN and my time (Please read, everyone)

[R K]

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Ton DeFrancesco" data-cid="210797" data-time="1381771218">
<div>


Why? This is the answer I'm trying to resolve, yet no one will give me a concrete reason. Give me a list of reasons you come to IHN.</p>


 </p>


The first time they tried I said no, because I had the time to donate to running the website. I don't know if that will be possible for another 4 years.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>


 </p>


I answered this twice for you the other night.</p>


 </p>


1. I am a member for both BHZone and 300 level.</p>


 </p>


2.  I have no disire to be part of CCS.  None</p>


 </p>


3.  We started this to have our own community, not the change we could lose that being under some other umbrella.</p>


 </p>


4.  I really don't like their site and there is Zero traffic under the Hawks section, and I am not going to be that traffic.</p>


 </p>


5.  IHN was ours.  Our domain/URL no one elses.</p>


 </p>


6.  I think from the Senior members, we are in agreement it's a NO. </p>

 

[The Count Dante]

Again, please remove the "in print" connotations of grandeur...</p>


 </p>


For me personally, I do not see me moving to another message board. This one is great for me as I am one who only posts while at work, and this board has no ads I worry about, no hooks into other places, and is a tiny footprint as far as amount of traffic downloaded and uploaded. </p>


 </p>


Again, I do not hold my attendance as any sort of importance and should not enter into any equation short of an opinion of a longer time poster. </p>

 

[BlackHawkPaul]

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Ton DeFrancesco" data-cid="210797" data-time="1381771218">
<div>


Why? This is the answer I'm trying to resolve, yet no one will give me a concrete reason. Give me a list of reasons you come to IHN.</p>


 </p>


The first time they tried I said no, because I had the time to donate to running the website. I don't know if that will be possible for another 4 years.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>


The same reason I went to Rink Talk (our original stomping ground).

We all left the O's in search of a community RUN BY US, STARTED BY US because the old days of the officials were gone with WWWs passing.  I don't know why you cannot understand this.

It was our rules, our deal, and we could say/post anything within reason.  


All I want is a site that I KNOW is run by us, and we can change quickly based on how the community feels, not something that could possibly be aborted by a CCS admin if we start becoming... well... us.


Are they offering a sum of $$ to take over IHN?

 </p>

 

[Ton]

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="The Count Dante" data-cid="210798" data-time="1381771551">
<div>


Ton,</p>


 </p>


*preamble* The work you have done thus far has been awesome. </p>


 </p>


With that, the next sentence in print will drip with negative connotation, PLEASE dismiss that...</p>


 </p>


When you say "backend work", how much of that is because you are in charge of a web site and you want it to be as awesome and detail rich as possible as a point of pride vs. What us as a community are happy with?</p>


 </p>


Personality, I havent really noticed that content hasnt changed much. I like the message board above all. As awesome as the enhancements you have added are, I would guess that the active folks here can live without them.</p>


 </p>


I obviously have pride in my work. I know most of you don't use the front page, or check the line-up, or use anything else. But other people who do not post do. This traffic helps pay the bills, hell, sometimes a little extra which I've saved for future costs, and in the last few months, without updating that, I have seen a significant difference. Believe me. This difference may not be noticeable now to everyone who posts here, but it will be in the long run. CCS is on the upswing, this is why I believe it's a good idea. - Ton</p>


 </p>


I also completely understand wanting to pass on any responsibility here. </p>


 </p>


 </p>


1. I have met a lot of folks here and have been reading others for years. As long as everyone is on the same page, that shouldn't change.</p>


2. I can get Hawks and Hockey info from a group of fans that are at least as passionate as I am.  Again, if everyone can see the opportunity here, I don't see how this changes.</p>


3. A fun spot for me to let my A.D.D. pop at work and look at other subjects and opinions about non-hockey issues. Same as above. </p>


4. There are no hooks to other crap here. I dont have a faceybook account or a tweeter account or anything else. We have ads, hooks to other crap, if that's what you are talking about... thats how we afford to stay around. But, since you donated, I removed it for you.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>

 

[Shantz My Pants]

If we merge, who gets the final say on all Hockey forums related decisions?


If we strip away all the side stuff on the site, and just kept the boards and chat, will it really be that much work to keep it running? The site seems to have been running fine with your low amount of work you've put in lately.

 

[Ton]

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="R K" data-cid="210799" data-time="1381771983">
<div>


I answered this twice for you the other night.</p>


 </p>


1. I am a member for both BHZone and 300 level. And? I don't see how that is relevant.</p>


 </p>


2.  I have no disire to be part of CCS.  None. And that's that, you can't come up with any reason?</p>


 </p>


3.  We started this to have our own community, not the change we could lose that being under some other umbrella. Because CCS is some big corporate website where we can't discuss anything subjectively, right? This is entire statement is false.</p>


 </p>


4.  I really don't like their site and there is Zero traffic under the Hawks section, and I am not going to be that traffic. This argument just gets better and better.</p>


 </p>


5.  IHN was ours.  Our domain/URL no one elses. It still is.</p>


 </p>


6.  I think from the Senior members, we are in agreement it's a NO. And I'm still left wondering why.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>

 

[Ton]

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="BlackhawkPaul" data-cid="210801" data-time="1381772221">
<div>


The same reason I went to Rink Talk (our original stomping ground).

We all left the O's in search of a community RUN BY US, STARTED BY US because the old days of the officials were gone with WWWs passing.  I don't know why you cannot understand this.

It was our rules, our deal, and we could say/post anything within reason.  What exactly is changing?


All I want is a site that I KNOW is run by us, and we can change quickly based on how the community feels, not something that could possibly be aborted by a CCS admin if we start becoming... well... us  You're making him sound so evil and diabolical. Yes, he shall ruin us!


Are they offering a sum of $$ to take over IHN? Enough to dig it out of a hole.

 </p>
</div>
</blockquote>

 

[R K]

you just pull that McD thing out of your ass?  Because it's THEIR WEBSITE, not yours.  You will have given YOUR and OUR control away.</p>


 </p>


What kind of hole are we in?  What exactly are the costs of this?  How many contributing members do we have?</p>


 </p>


Show that Data while your at it.</p>

 

[BlackHawkPaul]

I still haven't seen a post that says:

Yes, let's go to CCS.  In fact, why not get their admin to join the conversation?


The writing is on the wall.</p>


The ultimate decision is honestly up to Ton, not us.  This thread is window dressing.  The conversation is moot.  If this was more of a democratic process in finding a solution I would be excited to contribute, but Ton's posts are very telling. 


You guys know where to find me.  If a new board arises, just let me know.  

 </p>

 

[R K]

I'm going to go under the assumption the Cutsizzle below is part of CCS or the admin.</p>

 

[R K]

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="BlackhawkPaul" data-cid="210808" data-time="1381773022">
<div>


I still haven't seen a post that says:

Yes, let's go to CCS.  In fact, why not get their admin to join the conversation?


The writing is on the wall.</p>


The ultimate decision is honestly up to Ton, not us.  This thread is window dressing.  The conversation is moot.  If this was more of a democratic process in finding a solution I would be excited to contribute, but Ton's posts are very telling. 

You guys know where to find me.  If a new board arises, just let me know.  

 </p>
</div>
</blockquote>


 </p>


 While that is certainly a possibility and has been discussed, I would prefer to stay where we are.</p>


 </p>


Tony please provide the cost's directly related to this site so we know how much we are talking about.</p>


 </p>


I have NO desire to mod again, but some of us would be more than happy to do some of the Admin stuff to keep things up to date.</p>


 </p>


None of us are moving to CCS, and if it comes down to that will probably just start our own boards/chat with some type of splash page like Millers has.</p>


 </p>


For the most part this board polices itself.  A majority of us know each other from outside the boards.</p>

 

[Cutsizzle]

<p style="margin-left:40px;">Hey guys, this is Rush from ChiCitySports, owner and founder. I've been in talks with Ton for over 2 years now, attempting to somehow "add" IHN to our community. He has always been a stand-up guy in any talks we've had always keeping the communities interest 100% at heart.</p>
<p style="margin-left:40px;"> </p>
<p style="margin-left:40px;">You guys have a tight knit community, just as we have. I've been running/owning/recruiting/writing for websites for close to 10 years now. A lot of our success is due to the Blackhawks run a couple years ago to win the Cup. In the early days we had roughly 25-30 active posters and now we're pushing 500+ users online in a day. The Bears forum receives 75% of the traffic. </p>
<p style="margin-left:40px;"> </p>
<p style="margin-left:40px;">As it currently stands, we are hoping to increase our Blackhawks activity. I've put a concentrated effort into bringing in Blackhawks posters and it seems as if they are spread between here, HFBoards, 300Level, Wirtzsucks, etc. Being that most people have had a community for ages, it's very hard to bring in new posters. We have to rely on Bears/Bulls fans that ALSO like the Blackhawks for discussion. Essentially each team forum is it's own site/community. We have people who only come to the site for Illinois Football talk and we only have people who just come for the White Sox forum. </p>
<p style="margin-left:40px;"> </p>
<p style="margin-left:40px;">I am only interested in bringing IHN over to ChiCitySports if the community is behind the idea. I am not here to try and sway you because, you either want it, or you don't. In my experience with merging forums, if the majority of the forum isn't behind the idea, it's going to fail anyway so there is no reason to push forward. However, I believe this can be a success. The posters here are great, and regardless of how things ever end up, I owe Ton a case of beer or two for the way he has always handled himself. He is truly a stand up guy. In my time of working with other Chicago team sites, all of them are only interested in 1 thing and that is $$$. While I cannot fault them for that mindset, they would sell out their community without speaking with them for the right dollar amount. </p>
<p style="margin-left:40px;"> </p>
<p style="margin-left:40px;">Essentially the only thing that would change on your end, would be the domain name that you access the forum from. We would do our best to replicate everything about IHN. From the layout of the Blackhawks area, to the graphics, and we would integrate posts, threads, usernames, so you wouldn't have to alter your account, you would log in just like logging into IHN. </p>
<p style="margin-left:40px;"> </p>
<p style="margin-left:40px;">My goal isn't to overtake the IHN community. What I've wanted to build is a 1 stop shop for Chicago sports fans. We have an active Bears forum, active Bulls forum and we want to create an atmosphere where a Chicago fan can get all of their news from 1 location. If this is something you guys would be for, I can't wait to get to know you guys. If not, there is no skin off my back. I wouldn't be doing my job if I wasn't trying to make our Blackhawks section the best it could possibly be. That is just my take, if you guys get behind the idea, I'd be thrilled. If not, I can completely understand and respect each and everybody's' decision. </p>
<p style="margin-left:40px;"> </p>
<p style="margin-left:40px;">EDIT: Ton would continue to write, be on staff, etc. However the only thing "wrong" of his post is that he would in fact still be an administrator, along with myself and Zack54attack (co-owner/co-founder)</p>
<p style="margin-left:40px;"> </p>
<p style="margin-left:40px;">- Rush </p>
<p style="margin-left:40px;">ChiCitySports's Version of Ton. </p>

 

[The Count Dante]

Candidly, I do not know how the Upper Echelon of IHN operate with who-does-what.</p>


 </p>


Clearly Tony wants a change to his responsibilities (PERFECTLY understandable).</p>


 </p>


The costs would be important to know for sure.</p>


I am sure there are plenty of people that could and would like to mod the forum.</p>


 </p>


So perhaps a list of tasks and costs would be beneficial, decide what can go and what needs to stay, then decide if it is better to merge in. </p>

 

[The Count Dante]

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Cutsizzle" data-cid="210811" data-time="1381773247">
<div>


<snip></p>
<p style="margin-left:40px;">Hey guys, this is Rush from ChiCitySports, owner and founder. I've been in talks with Ton for over 2 years now, attempting to somehow "add" IHN to our community. He has always been a stand-up guy in any talks we've had always keeping the communities interest 100% at heart.</p>
<p style="margin-left:40px;"> </p>
<p style="margin-left:40px;"></snip></p>
<p style="margin-left:40px;">- Rush </p>
<p style="margin-left:40px;">ChiCitySports's Version of Ton. </p>


 </p>
</div>
</blockquote>


 </p>


Thanks for the post Rush!</p>

 

[Ton]

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="R K" data-cid="210806" data-time="1381772803">
<div>


you just pull that McD thing out of your ass?  Because it's THEIR WEBSITE, not yours.  You will have given YOUR and OUR control away.</p>


 </p>


What kind of hole are we in?  What exactly are the costs of this?  How many contributing members do we have?</p>


 </p>


Show that Data while your at it.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>


 </p>


I've spent roughly $400 in the last year. You can cut some costs out, but most are essential IMO.</p>

 

[Cutsizzle]

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="R K" data-cid="210806" data-time="1381772803">
<div>


you just pull that McD thing out of your ass?  Because it's THEIR WEBSITE, not yours.  You will have given YOUR and OUR control away.</p>


 </p>


What kind of hole are we in?  What exactly are the costs of this?  How many contributing members do we have?</p>


 </p>


Show that Data while your at it.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>


 </p>


Honestly Ton is an integral part of the venture. If he wasn't on board to continue doing what he is doing here, helping with Blackhawks coverage, and being a part of the community, it would be a meaningless venture for the both of us. The back-end/financial commitment wouldn't be needed and in his time he can concentrate on just posting as a fan and writing Blackhawks articles when he can. </p>


 </p>


I understand that the majority of people who run websites are complete asshats, Ton is one of only guys I've ran into who has a site like myself, that is normal and doesn't let "power/authority" agendas get in the way of day to day functions. We are sports fans, we all post that way and just because I run the site, doesn't mean I don't think of myself just like every other poster. I believe problems/concerns arise when people believe they "control" others. Our moderation is only set in place to merge/delete unneeded topics (on bears game day a lot of threads are made instead of being posted in the game day thread) and guide discussion. We have had moderators who have tried to control users and that is why they are no longer moderators. </p>

 

[R K]

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Cutsizzle" data-cid="210818" data-time="1381774342">
<div>


Honestly Ton is an integral part of the venture. If he wasn't on board to continue doing what he is doing here, helping with Blackhawks coverage, and being a part of the community, it would be a meaningless venture for the both of us. </p>


 </p>


I understand that the majority of people who run websites are complete asshats, Ton is one of only guys I've ran into who has a site like myself, that is normal and doesn't let "power/authority" agendas get in the way of day to day functions. We are sports fans, we all post that way and just because I run the site, doesn't mean I don't think of myself just like every other poster. I believe problems/concerns arise when people believe they "control" others. Our moderation is only set in place to merge/delete unneeded topics (on bears game day a lot of threads are made instead of being posted in the game day thread) and guide discussion. We have had moderators who have tried to control users and that is why they are no longer moderators. </p>
</div>
</blockquote>


 </p>



First off this isn't Tony's decision.  There were several of us that "created" IHN, of which for specific reasons.  So it's not "ton's" site, it's ours.  second, after poking around CCS the past few days, I'm not sure any of us want to be part of a "Chicago Sports" site.  I do remember you going down this road a few years ago, and it was No then as well.  Thrid have you gone this path with the 300 Level and Stuy?  If so what was his response.</p>


 </p>


Understand most of us here were part of Blackhawk Zone before Frank decided to take a different path and we meandered to Wirtz Sucks, which is now Blackhawk zone, and the 300 level which is Stuys.  Back when the Offiicals were about 200 of us.  So my aprehension here is going to stay.  Along with the fact IHN, the domain/URL might be Tony's in name, but it is OUR creation.</p>


 </p>


So far i have not heard anything compelling from any of our members on, yes, lets give this a chance.  I just don't see it happening.</p>

 

[Shantz My Pants]

The biggest reason we left the officials was we wanted control over our posts. We also wanted to have a NHTA section. There was too much censorship and too much crap going on that took away our feeling of venting freely.


Cutsizzle, we are a very tight knit and knowledgable community. We got sick of all the "newbie" posters that the officials brought. We also were very vocal about said new posters.


With that said, what are you going to do when our discussions get heated like they typically do? What are you going to do when we call a newbie or someone an idiot or moron (or ass clown, or jackass, or any other derivative of Special person)? Here, we can say how we feel in a very free manner (though typically to a point). What are you going to do when some new poster comes in and complains to you and your staff about our abrasive nature?

 

[Shantz My Pants]

The main reason CCS wants us is the traffic ($$$) we bring in. That's fine, but I believe with our abrasive nature, the community will not grow as it really hasn't already being here.


I don't believe we need a move for what we truly want out of IHN. Forums and a chat is all I really care about. I like writing for IHN, but I haven't been that dedicated nor is it a selling point. I could open a free blogger account and get the same amount of results I do now.


Again, I truly understand Tons dilemma, that's why I relinquished what ever share of ownership I had in the site years ago. I had no time to help, and Ton was putting in all the work by himself. That said, I don't think the site is at the point where a move is necessary.

 

[BlackHawkPaul]

CCS welcomes new member:

Stu Grimson</p>