Illini BB

[bamainatlanta]

That should be something he is praised for, much different from both his predecessors.

What do you think Groce's biggest downfall was? Recruiting?

 

[dennehy]

What do you think Groce's biggest downfall was? Recruiting?

This may sound harsh but I just don't think he's a bright guy. Not on the Beckman level but in the ball park. His silly cliches always irked me and I never noticed in-game changes that worked. All hat no cattle as they say in Texas.

More specifically, terrible roster construction, his players didn't develop much (obviously there were issues with Nunn that limited his time at UI but he left so much untapped potential in Champaign, Myke Henry as an NBA player, lol at that thought while he was in CU), his team defense was always lousy (often covered up a bit because Egwu was really good around the rim). I think in terms of recruiting he could probably connect with some recruits via his Christianity and or his high energy, but they never seemed to play as well as they were ranked, nor did he ever have a real point guard.

I had a begrudging respect for Weber's ability to treat all his players the same and to always get his teams to play tough defense, but he was too rigid in pretty much every way: recruiting, system, not trusting young players, and being a guy who just wasn't dynamic.

 

[TL1961]

John Groce coached college basketball as if every game was the first basketball game he had ever seen.

 

[dweebs19]

Speaking of Groce, I'm glad he's back to doing well. His team will probably be in the tournament this year. He has another Illinois kid leading his team.

 

[Parade_Rain]

Underwood wasn't getting it done until recently. Coaches get criticized when they lose and praised when they win. That's how this works.

Underwood had to turn around a barge. Weber tanked the program after Self’s players graduated. Groce drive it off a cliff. This team has 2 seniors, Kipper and Feliz, a juco transfer. He did the right thing getting rid of team culture issues. Mr puff puff, Mark Smith...all 5 points of him, etc. Frazier a junior. This is a young team with 2 transfers sitting out and a helluva class coming in. He was getting things done. They just hadn’t resulted in wins yet.

 

[bamainatlanta]

Underwood had to turn around a barge. Weber tanked the program after Self’s players graduated. Groce drive it off a cliff. This team has 2 seniors, Kipper and Feliz, a juco transfer. He did the right thing getting rid of team culture issues. Mr puff puff, Mark Smith...all 5 points of him, etc. Frazier a junior. This is a young team with 2 transfers sitting out and a helluva class coming in. He was getting things done. They just hadn’t resulted in wins yet.

Weber put too much faith into Jamar Smith, Eric Gordon, and that one dipshit that never panned out(I believe he was the last AA recruit for the Illini). He also had jack shit for PG's after Deron left. McCamey sucked, Frazier was tough but just flat out couldn't play, and the rest were basically SG's masquerading around as PG's.

 

[Raskolnikov]

could be great next year because I think Frazier is too small to go pro early.

I've seen quite a few Big 10 games now and Illinois can and should take the conference and the tourney. The entire conference has scoring issues, and I understand the style and officiating but it goes beyond that. It could be an ugly march madness this year and it feels like the ACC and Big 12 are more dangerous.

 

[Raskolnikov]

Weber has proven to be a good defensive coach at KSU, but he could also get fired after this year and go down the ladder again to West Coast or something.

 

[JimJohnson]

That should be something he is praised for, much different from both his predecessors.

Sure but my point is it wasn't until recently that that started paying dividends. People acting like I (and many others) didn't have reason to criticize Wood for the results he was getting. This is a results oriented business. Show me, don't tell me.

 

[bamainatlanta]

Weber has proven to be a good defensive coach at KSU, but he could also get fired after this year and go down the ladder again to West Coast or something.

I don't think he'll get fired. Hasn't he led them to 2 Elite 8's? Could be wrong.

Edit: only once

 

[dennehy]

Sure but my point is it wasn't until recently that that started paying dividends. People acting like I (and many others) didn't have reason to criticize Wood for the results he was getting. This is a results oriented business. Show me, don't tell me.

Yes, and I have criticized him plenty. But he also inherited a dumpster fire and a complete turn around just wasn't going to happen overnight.

 

[JimJohnson]

Yes, and I have criticized him plenty. But he also inherited a dumpster fire and a complete turn around just wasn't going to happen overnight.

That's fair but he was also struggling to recruit which led people to question whether winning would ever happen. Looks like recruiting is trending up at the moment. If he can finish this season strong, maybe get to the 2nd weekend, Illini could be great again. I'm hoping.

 

[dennehy]

That's fair but he was also struggling to recruit which led people to question whether winning would ever happen. Looks like recruiting is trending up at the moment. If he can finish this season strong, maybe get to the 2nd weekend, Illini could be great again. I'm hoping.

His recruiting has been good and is getting better. Again, he started off at ground zero. He's gotten 4 of the top 9 recruits by rankings that UI has gotten in the last 18 years. Yes, he's had to take a few shots in the dark and probably missed out a few players he could have gotten in the chase for a better player who eventually said no. But on balance if these guys keep playing well, make the tourney and compete there, he will be on schedule.

 

[Parade_Rain]

I don't think he'll get fired. Hasn't he led them to 2 Elite 8's? Could be wrong.

Edit: only once

They have some good players in the pipeline. It’s a matter of if that Elite 8 provides the cache Weber needs or not.

 

[dweebs19]

What? Underwood's recruiting has always been pretty decent. When he came in, his recruiting was on par with Groce. I think his big miss was Talen Horton Tucker(but apparently there was some politics in that recruiting).

I think going forward, if he can get Illinois to the second weekend in the tournament, his recruiting classes are going to start to look like back in the good old days with Self.

 

[Parade_Rain]

Outside of Landers Nolley, who punked them, and this past year, Timme at Gonzaga, who did they struggle with that Illinois should want though? Castleton? Liddell? Okoro? Ayo, Andres, Giorgi and Alan ended up being a good class.

 

[dennehy]

Tshibwe (sp?) at WVU. The THT debacle. Kalkbrenner. But every coach has misses. Overall they've been good.

 

[Parade_Rain]

Weber put too much faith into Jamar Smith, Eric Gordon, and that one dipshit that never panned out(I believe he was the last AA recruit for the Illini). He also had jack shit for PG's after Deron left. McCamey sucked, Frazier was tough but just flat out couldn't play, and the rest were basically SG's masquerading around as PG's.

Why Weber has been better at KSU with recruiting than his time at Illinois is Chicago isn’t in the backyard. He wasted a lot of time recruiting kids who weren’t coming to Illinois, as opposed to recruiting to his system.

 

[bamainatlanta]

Update on Smith

Glad he got his act together

Jamar Smith - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[JimJohnson]

Outside of Landers Nolley, who punked them, and this past year, Timme at Gonzaga, who did they struggle with that Illinois should want though? Castleton? Liddell? Okoro? Ayo, Andres, Giorgi and Alan ended up being a good class.

Giorgi was just a shot in the dark that paid off. He wasn't high on anyone's list. Was it luck or does Wood have the ability to spot diamonds in the rough?