IST: Cubs @ Kansas City

[CubsFaninMN]

But using wRC+ as a gauge:

1. Carpenter: 160
2. Suarez: 154
3. Yelich: 147
4. Freeman: 146
5. Arenado: 143
6. Aguilar: 142
7. Baez: 141
8. Goldscmidt: 140

I really think it is hard to argue against Matt right now.

If the MVP award is just a measure of who had the best offensive year, you're right. But we could then just award the MVP based solely on who has the highest wRC+ every year, no voting required. However, there is that pesky "the greatest service to his club" wording in the definition of the MVP award.

Who is of more service to his team: someone who performs insanely well on a .500 team -- which can't seem to use his performance as inspiration to bring their games up -- or a guy who steps up his performance to keep his team on top of its division when one of its stars, a past Rookie of the Year and MVP, goes down?

If the Brewers maintain the second-best winning percentage in the NL for the rest of the season and get into the playoffs, then I think Yelich is a really strong competitor for MVP, as well. But if the Rockies and/or the D-Backs continue to fall off as they seem to be doing right now, then Goldy and Nolan, despite their really good years, have a harder time competing in the main MVP criterion, that of being "of the greatest service" to his club. That's a subjective measure, which is why it requires a vote and can't just be automatically awarded to the guy with the best wRC+ or fWAR...

 

[Parade_Rain]

Don’t get me wrong. I love Javy’s game and even Hamels said that he had a Hall of fame 3B for years and Javy is bordering that territory.

But there are 2 things working against him.

1. Doesn’t take walks. Even 8% would be acceptable. It shows too agressive. (Under 4% current)

2. Not a set position. Making great plays is fantastic. But when compared to his peers well what is he?

What is he? The best IF in baseball. Period. Brand new category. I just created it.

 

[chibears55]

Means little. What factors is how the team does imo. Dawson was a exception to the rule because he was clearly better then the rest. But when you look at a group of 5 guys then you start nit picking. Like are they a contender or not. Is that player the main cog or a product of a strong support cast.

Baez has a strong arguement here. Carpenter may be the correct choice today but the Cards blow and Carpenter is not producing at Trout’s level that supersedes any team concideration.

It could mean whatever it wants, i don't care...
Just passing along what i heard from the sports personnel, which was basically that those first 2 months of Carpenter sucking ass and not helping the team , not being valuable, could hurt him...

What their probably saying is some or most voters may want to see guys putting up good numbers over the entire 6 months, avoiding long slumps, doing other things with glove legs etc to help team win when bat slumpping a bit over the whole season , not just half or 4 months of it...

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

 

[fatbeard]

If the MVP award is just a measure of who had the best offensive year, you're right. But we could then just award the MVP based solely on who has the highest wRC+ every year, no voting required. However, there is that pesky "the greatest service to his club" wording in the definition of the MVP award.

Who is of more service to his team: someone who performs insanely well on a .500 team -- which can't seem to use his performance as inspiration to bring their games up -- or a guy who steps up his performance to keep his team on top of its division when one of its stars, a past Rookie of the Year and MVP, goes down?

If the Brewers maintain the second-best winning percentage in the NL for the rest of the season and get into the playoffs, then I think Yelich is a really strong competitor for MVP, as well. But if the Rockies and/or the D-Backs continue to fall off as they seem to be doing right now, then Goldy and Nolan, despite their really good years, have a harder time competing in the main MVP criterion, that of being "of the greatest service" to his club. That's a subjective measure, which is why it requires a vote and can't just be automatically awarded to the guy with the best wRC+ or fWAR...

Yelich's biggest problem is Cain, and vice versa. They've both been equally good in overall value, with Cain (4.1 fWAR) being the best defender in the NL this year and Yelich (3.9 fWAR) being excellent offensively. I'm not sure how the writers would justify giving it to one guy over the other, and that probably hurts them both in the voting.

 

[Diehardfan]

Yelich's biggest problem is Cain, and vice versa. They've both been equally good in overall value, with Cain (4.1 fWAR) being the best defender in the NL this year and Yelich (3.9 fWAR) being excellent offensively. I'm not sure how the writers would justify giving it to one guy over the other, and that probably hurts them both in the voting.

A lot of people (myself included) underestimated what the Brewers did when they acquired these two. You have to wonder if Milwaukee would even be in contention right now if they didn't get these two guys.

 

[fatbeard]

A lot of people (myself included) underestimated what the Brewers did when they acquired these two. You have to wonder if Milwaukee would even be in contention right now if they didn't get these two guys.

I wouldn't fault anyone for underestimating them; they're both going to have career or near-career years. It would've been foolish to project them to be as good as they've been.

 

[anotheridiot]

Tommy LaStella and Carrot top were the batters for the Darvish simulated game. Tommy fouled a ball off his foot and was in excruciating pain. Schwarber had to help him off the field to the trainers.

At least it was not anyone important.

 

[Omeletpants]

Tommy LaStella and Carrot top were the batters for the Darvish simulated game. Tommy fouled a ball off his foot and was in excruciating pain. Schwarber had to help him off the field to the trainers.

At least it was not anyone important.

LaStella is a professional hitter and I would trust him in any situation and I beleive Maddon would also

 

[CubsFaninMN]

Tommy LaStella and Carrot top were the batters for the Darvish simulated game. Tommy fouled a ball off his foot and was in excruciating pain. Schwarber had to help him off the field to the trainers.

At least it was not anyone important.

I dunno, Tommy has been a pretty decent lefty off the bench all year. And especially playing an AL team, with the DH, losing Tommy means going into tonight's game with only two position players on the bench. I doubt there would be time to call someone up to replace him, even if LaStella needs to go on the DL.

That's pretty important, limits the moves the manager can make quite a bit.

 

[beckdawg]

It's only 49 data points but if you look at players with more than 40 batted balls Bote is first in the majors with a 96.3 mph average exit velocity. #2 is Aaron Judge at 95.8. #3 is Nelson Cruz at 94.5. #4 is Miggy Cabrera at 94.2. #5 is also a short sample guy at 67 data pooints but it's rookie Franmil Reyes. #6 is Stanton at 94.1. Dude's keeping good company. He's been worth a rather crazy 1.2 fwar over 78 PAs with a 161 wrc+. Prorate that over 600 PAs and that's a 9.23 win pace LOL. His babip is going to come down probably 110 points if we use his aa/aaa numbers as a guide. But he's hitting .344 so there's a lot of room to fall. Statcast has his expected triple slash at .327/.414/.590 based off his performance. So, the average and onbase drop but the slugging apparently could go up. Even if he's like .280/.360/.500, how do you keep that in AAA or regularly on the bench?

I think this offseason could be crazy. The way the non-stars(those other than Bryant/Rizzo) have performed this year has been frankly all we can hope for and more. Leaves the cubs with frankly too much depth if such a thing exists. And that's before you even talk about adding Machado or Harper. If they pick up Hamels option and given how he's pitched thus far I think that's possible, you are going to have a lot of solid pieces you could possibly move in trades. I mean just as an example here, if you assume 4 of your starting 5 is Darvish, Hamels, Lester, and Hendricks and the +1 being someone you deal for that then means you can trade Quintana. You can also potentially move Monty since you have Smyly coming back. You could potentially move Bote though I'm not sure his trade value is equal to his real life value. You could move Happ and have Bote take his bat first utility role....etc.

 

[TL1961]

But using wRC+ as a gauge:


1. Carpenter: 160
2. Suarez: 154
3. Yelich: 147
4. Freeman: 146
5. Arenado: 143
6. Aguilar: 142
7. Baez: 141
8. Goldscmidt: 140

I really think it is hard to argue against Matt right now.

Only if offense is all that counts, and you discard poor baserunning when defining offense.

When he walks it takes two doubles to get him home, so his walks are not as valuable. Baserunning has to mean something, but it is not a factor.

To say he is more valuable and to totally dismiss the fact he is poor defensively is a crime.

He plays 1B, where his offensive numbers don’t outpace others by a lot, yet his war is somehow high.

Any IF throwing a ball a little wide or in the dirt gets an error because he is positively incapable of fielding a bounced throw, and those plays don’t show up in HIS stats, only in stats of others.

Sometimes you need to look at the play on the field instead of the stats online.

Cards fans wanted him traded or CUT until 3-4 weeks ago. He has not been close to the most valuable over 4 months.

 

[fatbeard]

It's only 49 data points but if you look at players with more than 40 batted balls Bote is first in the majors with a 96.3 mph average exit velocity. #2 is Aaron Judge at 95.8. #3 is Nelson Cruz at 94.5. #4 is Miggy Cabrera at 94.2. #5 is also a short sample guy at 67 data pooints but it's rookie Franmil Reyes. #6 is Stanton at 94.1. Dude's keeping good company. He's been worth a rather crazy 1.2 fwar over 78 PAs with a 161 wrc+. Prorate that over 600 PAs and that's a 9.23 win pace LOL. His babip is going to come down probably 110 points if we use his aa/aaa numbers as a guide. But he's hitting .344 so there's a lot of room to fall. Statcast has his expected triple slash at .327/.414/.590 based off his performance. So, the average and onbase drop but the slugging apparently could go up. Even if he's like .280/.360/.500, how do you keep that in AAA or regularly on the bench?

I think this offseason could be crazy. The way the non-stars(those other than Bryant/Rizzo) have performed this year has been frankly all we can hope for and more. Leaves the cubs with frankly too much depth if such a thing exists. And that's before you even talk about adding Machado or Harper. If they pick up Hamels option and given how he's pitched thus far I think that's possible, you are going to have a lot of solid pieces you could possibly move in trades. I mean just as an example here, if you assume 4 of your starting 5 is Darvish, Hamels, Lester, and Hendricks and the +1 being someone you deal for that then means you can trade Quintana. You can also potentially move Monty since you have Smyly coming back. You could potentially move Bote though I'm not sure his trade value is equal to his real life value. You could move Happ and have Bote take his bat first utility role....etc.

I'm just not buying the Bote hype. He's hot and it's a small sample size. He's got 2400 minor league PAs and he's never shown anything close to what he's doing now. His extensive minor league record clearly projects him as a backup/utility infielder. It just doesn't make sense him coming up and transforming into this great player.

 

[Diehardfan]

I'm just not buying the Bote hype. He's hot and it's a small sample size. He's got 2400 minor league PAs and he's never shown anything close to what he's doing now. His extensive minor league record clearly projects him as a backup/utility infielder. It just doesn't make sense him coming up and transforming into this great player.

It's baseball. Anything is possible. Witness one Jim Hickman in 1970 .315 32HRs 132 RBI At 33 years old, after 8 years in the league he's an All Star and got MVP votes. Never got close to those numbers before or after that one season....stats do not reliably predict the future. Sometimes shit just happens.

 

[beckdawg]

I'm just not buying the Bote hype. He's hot and it's a small sample size. He's got 2400 minor league PAs and he's never shown anything close to what he's doing now. His extensive minor league record clearly projects him as a backup/utility infielder. It just doesn't make sense him coming up and transforming into this great player.

I get that argument but the fact he's hitting the ball that hard is to me anyways a really positive sign. As for his past, I wouldn't put too much into that because we're really only talking about 2016 onward with him. He changed his swing to add more loft in 2016 and that's when he unlocked his power. How'd he do those years since? .328/.399/.492 between A+, AA, and AAA in 2016(364 PAs), .272/.353/.438(535 PAs) at AA in 2017 plus .333/.395/.536(76 PAs) in the AFL, and over 235 PAs at AAA this year he's hit .268/.342/.494 plus his MLB numbers(.344/.436/.547). Those are legit numbers.

Will he continue to hit over .300? Probably not but if he's .270-.280 with a .340-.350 OBP and a .450-.500 SLG that's a pretty strong bat. Anthony Rendon hit .270/.348/.450 in 2016 and was a 4.4 win player at 3B. Justin Turner hit .275/.339/.493 in 2016 and was a 5 win player. The biggest question on him I heard coming into the season was never his bat. It was his glove. But frankly he's made a number of good defensive plays since coming up. I mean he's not Baez out there but he's not a gaping hole either.

 

[bamainatlanta]

Holy shit, Happ is definitely in a funk right now

 

[TL1961]

Am I the only one who thinks the offense sucks with Rizzo leading off, even though he gets on?

HIS tats are good at leadoff, but the team struggles. It takes a double and more to get him home from first. And we need his bat with men on in front of him.

Personally, I want to see him bat behind others, not in front of them. Rizzo leadoff and Javy 2nd gives Javy chances, but it just seems pedestrian.

 

[Diehardfan]

If no one else is gonna get a hit...does it matter where he bats?

 

[Diehardfan]

What's bothering me is their refusal to let this guy walk anyone. He just got Baez on a 7 pitch AB without ever throwing a strike. I understand, they won't hit every night but they can at least look professional out there.

 

[TL1961]

Cole Hamels allows one run, but we remind ourselves "It was the Royals".

Mike Montgomery allows zero, and we remind ourselves "It was the Royals".

Jose Quintana can't hold the Royals to less than 5 in 6.1

I had high hopes for Jose Quintana, but he is just a guy. And right now, he sucks.

 

[TL1961]

If no one else is gonna get a hit...does it matter where he bats?

Yes. He needs to be in position to drive in runs.