IST: Cubs @ Tigers

CSF77

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You can play the IF game all year long, cause just like IFs for a possible Win , they have IFs for a possible lost..
So, their record is what it is

Im not saying they can't beat those teams, cause they can.
Im just saying if they continue playing like they have, against those teams. they might not get away with winning those games like they can with the bad teams..

They and Bryant were up and down before he got DL..
Not saying he wont help though..

Plus, that another reason to be concerned when they play the better teams in September.. gonna be a little tougher without Bryant bat in the lineup, so they need him sooner rather then later...

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Rather they limit him some in sept. This feels requiring. Rather that they have him in Oct than not.

IMO if the team is not good enough to make it with out him then they don’t deserve to be there anyways.
 

anotheridiot

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Murphy leading off, Bote, Happ and Almora all in the lineup, I am guessing the choice will be Russell to DL?
 

CSF77

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Imo the stalled engine ties to a few factors:

Only hitters over .300 in Aug: Rizzo and Zobrist.

Baez hitting .254. Big reason

Catchers hitting under .200. Imo need to rest Contreras right now.

Happ and Bote both around .200.

So in view of this the guys that should be leaned on are Zo, Rizzo, Heyward, Schwarber and Baez. All have hit .250 or higher in Aug.

Rest are not and should be in platoons until they spark up. I think some days off would help in some cases. Ego needs to be shelved.

Murphy I believe has played 3B some and honestly maybe a option after this series there. Rather have Zo at 2B and Baez at SS to let Russell recover.

But in general I just think that some guys need some limiting. Baez is in a lull but .250 lull is acceptable.
 

CSF77

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Murphy leading off, Bote, Happ and Almora all in the lineup, I am guessing the choice will be Russell to DL?

Murphy 2B
Almora CF
Happ LF most likely
Bote 3B

What I’m guessing.

No word on the 25 man but Russell needs to be that guy. Shoulder issue again and he needs to shut down.
 

chibears55

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Rather they limit him some in sept. This feels requiring. Rather that they have him in Oct than not.

IMO if the team is not good enough to make it with out him then they don’t deserve to be there anyways.
He taking BP again today with trainer Maddon Davis, so my guess if he feels ok tomorrow and over weekend, starts rehab by Monday for a couple games and back by September 3 for Milwaukee ..

I too can see him getting a couple days off here and there if they can hold the division lead

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CSF77

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Murphy 2B
Baez SS
Rizzo 1B
Zo DH
Heyward RF
Almora CF
Bote 3B
Contreras C
Happ LF
 

CSF77

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He taking BP again today with trainer Maddon Davis, so my guess if he feels ok tomorrow and over weekend, starts rehab by Monday for a couple games and back by September 3 for Milwaukee ..

I too can see him getting a couple days off here and there if they can hold the division lead

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Absolutely

I know that his injury is to his left and not a throwing issue. The bat is in the left hand on his swing follow through. So repeated swings means wear and tear. Each DL stint repairs the damage from the last repair.

So this is a swing mechanic that is causing the injury. And it will take a alteration of his swing to prevent. If he continues then one day the damage will not be repairable
 

chibears55

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Leading off????
Isn't Murphy a run producer ?
Maddon has him leading off ahead of 4 struggling bats..
06bf773030d1f9eb06022fdaece890b4.jpg


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anotheridiot

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Murphy 2B
Almora CF
Happ LF most likely
Bote 3B

What I’m guessing.

No word on the 25 man but Russell needs to be that guy. Shoulder issue again and he needs to shut down.

yeah, my post was more of who did not get sent down. Happ and Baez have options and I figured it was impossible to send Happ down. Now Russell wont need a spot since he will be back up after September 1. Kind of interesting we all know about the left thumb, but the right shoulder inflamation is the official reason. Throwing shoulder inflamation has been the excuse for alot of players this year.
 

anotheridiot

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Leading off????
Isn't Murphy a run producer ?
Maddon has him leading off ahead of 4 struggling bats..

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Just think, when he comes up when he is not leading off, he is hitting behind 8 struggling bats.
 

beckdawg

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You can play the IF game all year long, cause just like IFs for a possible Win , they have IFs for a possible lost..
So, their record is what it is

That's the problem. You're not taking their record as what it is. You're cherry picking smaller samples and saying they are playing poorly now thus they are an inferior team than the team that's played the other 3 months of the season. My point in showing the 4 one run games is that you can easily look like a worse team than you are just by losing close games. If the cubs win those games instead we're not even having this conversation.... ok knowing how downer some on here are we'd probably be having this same conversation if the cubs were on a 115 win pace but i digress.

What frustrates me is as mentioned the lack of perspective. 2 weeks ago all this same talk was oh the cubs are never going to fend of MIL playing the way they are. Since the start of August they are 7-11. Now all the talk is oh how are they going to fend off the cardinals. The same cardinal team that prior to August 1st was 54-53. Sure they are hot going 16-4 in August but the point here is they aren't going to continue to win at that rate. No team ever does. Neither of those two teams added an MVP caliber player. they are just playing well/poorly comparable to their season record. But as I've said seemingly thousands of times now that's baseball. There is no team that is consistently great. The M's that set the win record didn't even make it to the world series because they started playing bad baseball at the wrong time. The 2016 cubs were terrible before the all star break....etc.
 

beckdawg

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Leading off????
Isn't Murphy a run producer ?
Maddon has him leading off ahead of 4 struggling bats..
06bf773030d1f9eb06022fdaece890b4.jpg


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Murphy takes great at bats. I mean were this the 1980's he's a fairly prototypical leadoff hitter with a career k rate of 11.8% and a stupidly low 8.3% this year. His walk rate isn't quite what you'd expect out of a modern era lead off guy(6.3%) but he's hitting .300 so his .341 OBP plays up. I like OBP as much if not more than the next guy but what I truly want is someone leading off who can just sit there and spoil pitch after pitch and drive up pitch counts.

Plus he's basically taking the role from Zobrist who isn't a slouch either driving in runs.
 

CSF77

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Murphy takes great at bats. I mean were this the 1980's he's a fairly prototypical leadoff hitter with a career k rate of 11.8% and a stupidly low 8.3%. His walk rate isn't quite what you'd expect out of a modern era lead off guy(6.3%) but he's hitting .300 so his .341 OBP plays up. I like OBP as much if not more than the next guy but what I truly want is someone leading off who can just sit there and spoil pitch after pitch and drive up pitch counts.

Plus he's basically taking the role from Zobrist who isn't a slouch either driving in runs.

See how it lays out today. I honestly think it is a broken line up but w/e works is fine.

If you were trying to optimize though:

Rizzo 1B
Zobrist LF
Murphy 2B
Baez SS
Heyward RF
Almora CF
Contreras/Cartiani C
Pitcher
Happ/Bote 3B

But they can then move Zo to RF and Heyward to CF and Schwarber into LF. Play the match up.

In general you really want OBA at the top BA at the middle and Happ takes walks a a solid clip and becomes food for the top.
 

beckdawg

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See how it lays out today. I honestly think it is a broken line up but w/e works is fine.

If you were trying to optimize though:

Rizzo 1B
Zobrist LF
Murphy 2B
Baez SS
Heyward RF
Almora CF
Contreras/Cartiani C
Pitcher
Happ/Bote 3B

But they can then move Zo to RF and Heyward to CF and Schwarber into LF. Play the match up.

In general you really want OBA at the top BA at the middle and Happ takes walks a a solid clip and becomes food for the top.

I don't see the point batting rizzo lead off. Like if you flip him and Murphy that's fine I suppose. But I'd rather rizzo bat clean up than Murphy.
 

Omeletpants

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My favorite teams
  1. Colorado Rockies
  1. Atlanta United FC
  1. Los Angeles Lakers
  2. Orlando Magic
  3. Phoenix Suns
  4. Sacramento Kings
  1. Columbus Blue Jackets
I'm HAPPy about tonight's lineup
 

CSF77

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I don't see the point batting rizzo lead off. Like if you flip him and Murphy that's fine I suppose. But I'd rather rizzo bat clean up than Murphy.

Rizzo tends to get his OBA more so from walks or HBP. Murphy gets his more from hits. Just when you want the ball in play you really look at BA more than OBA.
 

bamainatlanta

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Maybe because they have the best team in the national league record wise? I know it's a hard concept to fathom but maybe that's good enough to make the playoffs.

16-15 since the All Star break, I know its a hard concept to fathom that teams can fall apart and play bad baseball for the 2nd half of a season but maybe that not good enough to make the playoffs
 

beckdawg

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16-15 since the All Star break, I know its a hard concept to fathom that teams can fall apart and play bad baseball for the 2nd half of a season but maybe that not good enough to make the playoffs

Good to know 31 games in August are all that matters in a 162 game season.
 

chibears55

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That's the problem. You're not taking their record as what it is. You're cherry picking smaller samples and saying they are playing poorly now thus they are an inferior team than the team that's played the other 3 months of the season. My point in showing the 4 one run games is that you can easily look like a worse team than you are just by losing close games. If the cubs win those games instead we're not even having this conversation.... ok knowing how downer some on here are we'd probably be having this same conversation if the cubs were on a 115 win pace but i digress.

What frustrates me is as mentioned the lack of perspective. 2 weeks ago all this same talk was oh the cubs are never going to fend of MIL playing the way they are. Since the start of August they are 7-11. Now all the talk is oh how are they going to fend off the cardinals. The same cardinal team that prior to August 1st was 54-53. Sure they are hot going 16-4 in August but the point here is they aren't going to continue to win at that rate. No team ever does. Neither of those two teams added an MVP caliber player. they are just playing well/poorly comparable to their season record. But as I've said seemingly thousands of times now that's baseball. There is no team that is consistently great. The M's that set the win record didn't even make it to the world series because they started playing bad baseball at the wrong time. The 2016 cubs were terrible before the all star break....etc.
We can just disagree here..
Not sure how it cherry picking..

You cant use April May and June as a barometer for how they're playing the 3rd week of August and for the last 15 to 30 games..
Theyve been playing mediocre ball since the break..

We've seen teams look really bad the first couple months and turn it around the 2nd half to make the playoffs, were they considered bad in September because of how they played in the beginning? No

Im not saying the Cubs are a bad team, their far from it..
They just haven't been able to click on all cylinders the last 30+ games..
Can they turn it around absolutely

All im saying is back on July 15th they were 17 games over 500, 31 games later their 18 games over 500..
That tells us they haven't been playing good baseball and winning more then they were expected..

So, they need to play much better then the 500 baseball theyve played over the last 30 games over the final 40, otherwise the teams that got closer over the last 30 games are or could pass them up..

Do i think it will happen .. probably not because i think their a better team then theyve been , but i would like to start seeing more of a pulse in them sooner rather then later


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chibears55

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Murphy takes great at bats. I mean were this the 1980's he's a fairly prototypical leadoff hitter with a career k rate of 11.8% and a stupidly low 8.3% this year. His walk rate isn't quite what you'd expect out of a modern era lead off guy(6.3%) but he's hitting .300 so his .341 OBP plays up. I like OBP as much if not more than the next guy but what I truly want is someone leading off who can just sit there and spoil pitch after pitch and drive up pitch counts.

Plus he's basically taking the role from Zobrist who isn't a slouch either driving in runs.
Yea.. i guess also it not like they have better options right now with a struggling lineup and they dont have the pitcher hitting at the bottom, and those guy need to hit to win anyways..

I just would love to see a break out game tonight..

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