Jalen Hurts

[bearsfan1977]

I was not talking about who Pace should have picked in the 4th, 5th or whatever round outside the top 100 and thus missed on prospects like Eddie Jackson.

I am talking about a specific player-Jalen Hurts-over another specific player-Cole Kmet.

You said they would waste years trying to develop him when all he will ever be is a high-tier backup. You don’t know that. Just like I don’t know if he will ever be a franchise QB, though I am confidant I have watched more of his games start to finish than you have since he entered college.

It’s pretty simple, if you have a guy with his pedigree and traits who won consistently at 2 of the best programs in the country who also happens to play the important position in the game, you take him over a TE that may be very good. Especially if that means you don’t have to sign Foles to a multi-million dollar contract for that very same role.

 

[SlickWilly]

Well even that's just a bad philosophy to have. Throwing away draft picks, even late draft picks, isn't a good way to win games.

Agreed.

 

[Montucky]

I was not talking about who Pace should have picked in the 4th, 5th or whatever round outside the top 100 and thus missed on prospects like Eddie Jackson.

I am talking about a specific player-Jalen Hurts-over another specific player-Cole Kmet.

You said they would waste years trying to develop him when all he will ever be is a high-tier backup. You don’t know that. Just like I don’t know if he will ever be a franchise QB, though I am confidant I have watched more of his games start to finish than you have since he entered college.

It’s pretty simple, if you have a guy with his pedigree and traits who won consistently at 2 of the best programs in the country who also happens to play the important position in the game, you take him over a TE that may be very good. Especially if that means you don’t have to sign Foles to a multi-million dollar contract for that very same role.

This is still bad management though. If the Bears chase every guy who piles up lots of college wins and college statistics (which happens literally every single draft) it has a cumulative effect on the roster. Depth suffers, injuries to starters become more perilous, players dont develop, the salary cap becomes tight because free agency becomes a larger imperative...these decision do not just happen in a vacuum. Its not as simple as "Hurts > Kmet", there's so much more at play here when it comes to broader draft strategy.

There's a lot to not like about Jalen Hurts. Every team in the NFL passed on him at least once, and his rookie year performance has been decidedly hot/cold. He's clearly overwhelmed at times by the athleticism of NFL defenders, which is a common theme for guys who are statistical marvels in college, and his deep ball is seriously lackluster. You saw it on those final two Hail Mary plays how inaccurate he is when he has to throw it long, its really not acceptable for an NFL quarterback to overshoot the endzone from forty yards out. Pederson has shielded him from exposing this weakness in games, but rest assured it's going to be exposed eventually as defenses adjust to him.

On the other hand he's slippery and confident. OK at intermediate throws and doesn't fuck up screen plays or short throws like Wentz did routinely.

To me that screams back-up, and certainly doesn't have me freaking out that we passed on The Answer at quarterback to draft Cole Kmet.

 

[Tillman33]

Hurts is a gamer.

make that another draft with at least 3+ QBs way better than Mitch, the next one could have 4 or 5

 

[bearsfan1977]

This is still bad management though. If the Bears chase every guy who piles up lots of college wins and college statistics (which happens literally every single draft) it has a cumulative effect on the roster. Depth suffers, injuries to starters become more perilous, players dont develop, the salary cap becomes tight because free agency becomes a larger imperative...these decision do not just happen in a vacuum. Its not as simple as "Hurts > Kmet", there's so much more at play here when it comes to broader draft strategy.

There's a lot to not like about Jalen Hurts. Every team in the NFL passed on him at least once, and his rookie year performance has been decidedly hot/cold. He's clearly overwhelmed at times by the athleticism of NFL defenders, which is a common theme for guys who are statistical marvels in college, and his deep ball is seriously lackluster. You saw it on those final two Hail Mary plays how inaccurate he is when he has to throw it long, its really not acceptable for an NFL quarterback to overshoot the endzone from forty yards out. Pederson has shielded him from exposing this weakness in games, but rest assured it's going to be exposed eventually as defenses adjust to him.

On the other hand he's slippery and confident. OK at intermediate throws and doesn't fuck up screen plays or short throws like Wentz did routinely.

To me that screams back-up, and certainly doesn't have me freaking out that we passed on The Answer at quarterback to draft Cole Kmet.

Again, I see where you are coming from. Worst-case scenario is you have a high level backup for 4 years in CHI, which is never a bad thing. Especially when you have Mitch and the other option is Foles.

He was not a perfect prospect, but he kept getting better in college, and I suspect that will continue to be the case in the pros. I am not advocating for management to draft 3 QBs in every draft. What I WAS hoping is they take a chance on a talent at a position that has been embarrassingly vacant for 70 years. A position that has far more impact on the game than a TE.

 

[Warrior Spirit]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1341126550859751426

 

[BaBaBlacksheep]

Who though? The quarterback you are suggesting the Bears should've taken instead of the selection they made does not exist. They obviously made the wrong decision at quarterback in 2017, but that's not really the failure you are alluding to. You are saying the Bears problem is they dont draft enough quarterbacks, but of all the quarterbacks drafted after the Bears first pick the last two years none have really shown that they are really worth fretting over.

Dak and Jalen. Lamar.

 

[Montucky]

Dak and Jalen. Lamar.

I've gone over Hurts plenty. He's not a player right now that the Bears should be losing sleep over, he would have to make some incredible improvements in facets of his game that are difficult to improve.

Dak Prescott is literally the only example, aside from Lamar Jackson (which I will touch on a in a bit). Since Pace was hired the Bears have passed on forty-seven quarterbacks. Specifically what that means is they took a position player other than quarterback before forty-seven quarterbacks who were eventually drafted were selected. Of those forty-seven only two have found any sort of semblance of consistent NFL success. Not including Jackson that's one out of forty-six. Abysmal odds, actually so bad as to be considered near-impossible. Fact is if the Bears really went quarterback hunting late in the draft every year, or even most years, they were far morel likely to wind up with Tanner Lee or Clayton Thorson than Dak Prescott.

As for Jackson it is not customary in the NFL for a team to draft a quarterback in the first round, particularly in the top ten, two years in a row. It happened with Josh Rosen for very specific reasons, mostly to do with Rosen's entitlement mentality and unwillingness to be coached. Trubisky has no such behavioral issues and there was no impetus to pull the plug on him after his rookie year. Lamar Jackson at eighth overall in 2018 would've been considered an obscene reach and is not a realistic "what if" scenario.

 

[run and shoot]

This is still bad management though. If the Bears chase every guy who piles up lots of college wins and college statistics (which happens literally every single draft) it has a cumulative effect on the roster. Depth suffers, injuries to starters become more perilous, players dont develop, the salary cap becomes tight because free agency becomes a larger imperative...these decision do not just happen in a vacuum. Its not as simple as "Hurts > Kmet", there's so much more at play here when it comes to broader draft strategy.

There's a lot to not like about Jalen Hurts. Every team in the NFL passed on him at least once, and his rookie year performance has been decidedly hot/cold. He's clearly overwhelmed at times by the athleticism of NFL defenders, which is a common theme for guys who are statistical marvels in college, and his deep ball is seriously lackluster. You saw it on those final two Hail Mary plays how inaccurate he is when he has to throw it long, its really not acceptable for an NFL quarterback to overshoot the endzone from forty yards out. Pederson has shielded him from exposing this weakness in games, but rest assured it's going to be exposed eventually as defenses adjust to him.

On the other hand he's slippery and confident. OK at intermediate throws and doesn't fuck up screen plays or short throws like Wentz did routinely.

To me that screams back-up, and certainly doesn't have me freaking out that we passed on The Answer at quarterback to draft Cole Kmet.

You're assessing him as though he were a 5 to 8yr vet.

Newsflash: ? HE IS A ROOKIE.

Prior to the NFL draft I watched some of his games. Like others have said he's a baller. He's a Qb who looks for ways to win.
More importantly....he's smart. I've seen him break down film, analyze and diagram chalkboard plays.
He's a leader and he takes responsibility when things go wrong. And guess what..... the Eagle players respect and play hard for him.

 

[Montucky]

You're assessing him as though he were a 5 to 8yr vet.

Newsflash: ? HE IS A ROOKIE.

Prior to the NFL draft I watched some of his games. Like others have said he's a baller. He's a Qb who looks for ways to win.
More importantly....he's smart. I've seen him break down film, analyze and diagram chalkboard plays.
He's a leader and he takes responsibility when things go wrong. And guess what..... the Eagle players respect and play hard for him.

I'm just calling it as I see it on the field. I dont think Hurts is currently capable of game-winning plays, or at least he's not at the moment. Against the Saints he nearly fumbled the game away with two minutes left and the drive that put the Eagles up two scores? Mostly the work of a Reagor reverse sweep and Miles Sanders. Then this week he did mostly the same thing, taking two sacks on a critical drive deep in opponent's territory. Then he straight up missed the end zone on a forty yard throw during a Hail Mary, which is something most NCAA quarterbacks would not even do.

You want to call him a leader and make him out to be Russell Wilson, also? Fine, so be it. But right now I dont see anywhere near the arm talent Russell Wilson possessed even as a rookie and Hurts is very clearly overwhelmed by the speed and physicality of the pro game. The Eagles have effectively floundered their postseason hopes with him at the helm, also.

 

[coolio]

I was consistently posting before the draft that the Bears should target him, and was pissed after the draft that they didn’t.

Took a lot of heat from multiple posters on here that it would be a “wasted pick” and that he is way too raw to ever be more than a backup. Even though all he did was win in college with 2 elite programs.

Would’ve been nice to have him backing up Mitch instead of Foles and that contract, right? Small sample size but he should improve with more experience. Some of the very people on here who clamor to have them draft a QB constantly never want them to actually draft one unless it’s in the first round.

Pace has shown to be incredibly picky with quarterbacks. Jalen Hurts was probably never in play for the bears. I think he’ll only draft one if we’re picking in the top 10

 

[Montucky]

Pace has shown to be incredibly picky with quarterbacks. Jalen Hurts was probably never in play for the bears. I think he’ll only draft one if we’re picking in the top 10

Which is the correct move if a team is trying to maximize their chances at picking a successful quarterback. Unfortunately our beloved Bears really blew it last time they had such an opportunity.

 

[RiDLer80]

Honestly, drafting Hurts would've been a recipe for wasting years committed to developing a guy who will probably never really develop into much more than what Foles is already (a high tier backup). There's also a whole politics thing clearly going on behind the scenes in Philadelphia between Pederson, Roseman and Wentz of which Hurts is becoming this sort of inexplicable beneficiary.

I dont see any reason to lament not drafting him, he certainly hasn't displayed any world-beating talent. Guys like Hurts are available every year and the early indications from Kmet and especially Johnson are so encouraging that its really not prudent to believe that Pace did anything wrong in the second round.

At least hurts has potential. Trubisky is what he is at this point.
Re: politics between Pederson, Roseman and Wentz, I have no idea what you're talking about. You don't think the Eagles want Wentz to be uber successful after handing him that contract? They can't move him for two years because of that deal via the trade or release. They're stuck with him. The only politics that happened were him keeping his job longer than he should've because they can't afford to get rid of him.

 

[Raskolnikov]

Was he a Bears fan growing up?

We should go after him hard via trade or release, or waivers...pick up his contract, etc.
I would go all-in on Wentz the same as we did Cutler. I watched a bunch of those Eagles losses and Wentz was phenomenal at times. He got pulverized and kept fighting. The guy is the best thing your going to luck into if given the chance...don't let that stop you from 2nd day speculation draft picks if value QB falls, but absolutely try to get Wentz if he wants out of Philly.

 

[Warrior Spirit]

Was he a Bears fan growing up?

We should go after him hard via trade or release, or waivers...pick up his contract, etc.
I would go all-in on Wentz the same as we did Cutler. I watched a bunch of those Eagles losses and Wentz was phenomenal at times. He got pulverized and kept fighting. The guy is the best thing your going to luck into if given the chance...don't let that stop you from 2nd day speculation draft picks if value QB falls, but absolutely try to get Wentz if he wants out of Philly.

You good, bro? Wentz is a has been before he ever was. Only success Philly has had with him is when he was holding the clipboard.

 

[run and shoot]

You're assessing him as though he were a 5 to 8yr vet.

Newsflash: ? HE IS A ROOKIE.

Prior to the NFL draft I watched some of his games. Like others have said he's a baller. He's a Qb who looks for ways to win.
More importantly....he's smart. I've seen him break down film, analyze and diagram chalkboard plays.
He's a leader and he takes responsibility when things go wrong. And guess what..... the Eagle players respect and play hard for him.

I'm just calling it as I see it on the field. I dont think Hurts is currently capable of game-winning plays, or at least he's not at the moment. Against the Saints he nearly fumbled the game away with two minutes left and the drive that put the Eagles up two scores? Mostly the work of a Reagor reverse sweep and Miles Sanders. Then this week he did mostly the same thing, taking two sacks on a critical drive deep in opponent's territory. Then he straight up missed the end zone on a forty yard throw during a Hail Mary, which is something most NCAA quarterbacks would not even do.

You want to call him a leader and make him out to be Russell Wilson, also? Fine, so be it. But right now I dont see anywhere near the arm talent Russell Wilson possessed even as a rookie and Hurts is very clearly overwhelmed by the speed and physicality of the pro game. The Eagles have effectively floundered their postseason hopes with him at the helm, also.

Ok so #1...... I never said anything about Russell Wilson and I have no idea why you pulled him outta no where. Russell Wilson has zero to do with the conversation and Hurts. Please Re-read what I said above.

Hurts is a 22 year old rookie. Why are u disregarding that and dealing with him and assessing him as though he were a veteran??? In his press conference about the loss, he didn't point fingers or go into denial. He didn't avoid any of the tough questions. He said he was still learning and growing. He took ownership for the loss just like a leader would. He talked about how he and the team would go back reassess the lost, learn from it, regroup and move ahead.


You conveniently failed to point out how he passed for 3 Tds vs 0 ints. Under him, they put up 26 points ( with our D, that's a easy win. I'm just saying). You also failed to point out that prior to the N.O. win, they had lost 4 str8 games.
Fact is ....no matter how as u put it..... "I'm just calling it as I see it on the field " , the HC and the team respect him. The team has rallied around him and they believe in him.

 

[Toast88]

Nah, man. There's no good quarterbacks past the top 5.

 

[BearDen]

@run and shoot destroying @Montucky honestly

 

[Bearly]

I was not talking about who Pace should have picked in the 4th, 5th or whatever round outside the top 100 and thus missed on prospects like Eddie Jackson.

I am talking about a specific player-Jalen Hurts-over another specific player-Cole Kmet.

You said they would waste years trying to develop him when all he will ever be is a high-tier backup. You don’t know that. Just like I don’t know if he will ever be a franchise QB, though I am confidant I have watched more of his games start to finish than you have since he entered college.

It’s pretty simple, if you have a guy with his pedigree and traits who won consistently at 2 of the best programs in the country who also happens to play the important position in the game, you take him over a TE that may be very good. Especially if that means you don’t have to sign Foles to a multi-million dollar contract for that very same role.

Foles was signed before the draft so no, you don't know if Hurts is available before you sign Foles who was brought in to run a system that Hurts would not assimilate this quickly. It was the entire reason we got Foles for Nagy. The great majority of Philly writers and fans didn't like the pick. Philly's system is similar but they were running it in a lot less complex fashion for him, and Wentz for that matter. Sure took us a while to figure that one out.

. GM Howie Roseman insisted that the Eagles viewed Wentz as a franchise quarterback and that building around him was their goal. The Eagles’ brass viewed Hurts as a contributing piece to that supporting cast — a great teammate who will “throw [support] behind the starter”

Nobody knew how well Hurts would assimilate to the NFL and actually still don't. His Senior Bowl/other testing left a bit to be desired. We had a capable backup that Philly was lacking and needed more position players. What I'm getting at is that unless you see Hurts as a likely franchise QB in time or need a right now backup, you don't draft him there. Did we get it wrong? Maybe, maybe not but nothing new there when it comes to the draft... and congrats to him for playing well so far.

 

[bearsfan1977]

Foles was signed before the draft so no, you don't know if Hurts is available before you sign Foles who was brought in to run a system that Hurts would not assimilate this quickly. It was the entire reason we got Foles for Nagy. The great majority of Philly writers and fans didn't like the pick. Philly's system is similar but they were running it in a lot less complex fashion for him, and Wentz for that matter. Sure took us a while to figure that one out.

. GM Howie Roseman insisted that the Eagles viewed Wentz as a franchise quarterback and that building around him was their goal. The Eagles’ brass viewed Hurts as a contributing piece to that supporting cast — a great teammate who will “throw [support] behind the starter”

Nobody knew how well Hurts would assimilate to the NFL and actually still don't. His Senior Bowl/other testing left a bit to be desired. We had a capable backup that Philly was lacking and needed more position players. What I'm getting at is that unless you see Hurts as a likely franchise QB in time or need a right now backup, you don't draft him there. Did we get it wrong? Maybe, maybe not but nothing new there when it comes to the draft... and congrats to him for playing well so far.

It’s just personal preference on my part. I like Kmet, and I think he can be a very good player. I disliked the Foles signing because he needed all the pieces to fit perfectly for him in Philly, pieces this team does not have.

Player evaluations are wrong constantly, and I suspect that will end up being the case with Hurts, as I think he will only get better and better.

I would’ve rather had Hurts over Foles, but it is what it is. Hurts has always been known as a good guy, I hope he has success in the league.