Jeff Samardzija and Jason Hammel traded to Oakland Athletics for Addison Russell plus

[brett05]

Sure it does. Teams who need pitching are the ones who over pay. If washington gets Fister cheaply then there's less teams in the market for pitching and less people to bid against in a trade.

Zero affect on David Price. Ya know the guy worth more than Shark and Fister combined

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[beckdawg]

Zero affect on David Price. Ya know the guy worth more than Shark and Fister combined

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Sure he's worth more than both. My point is he's worth a percentage more than them and if they get next to nothing in a return his percentage is less than the Rays are willing to trade him for. It's the same with the cubs. If that's all they are getting offers for Shark then why would they deal him now? Neither the Rays nor the Cubs have to deal Price/Shark today. If that's the best offers they are getting they will wait til the trade deadline and hope scarcity improves their value.

The rays wont trade him for anything less than 2 top 50 prospects most likely and if they are getting offered say 1 top 50 and some other mid level prospects in that teams system they aren't going to trade him. The difference here is Detroit HAD to trade someone as they had more SP than rotation spots and they let Fister go cheaply for whatever reason. The rays and the cubs aren't in that situation.

 

[DewsSox79]

I've seen every one of those as a possibility for Shark in the last 12 months. I'm not seeing much difference. :shrug:

I know the guy has low miles on his arm, and i know he's shown he can be a good pitcher for stretches...But I see him is a 2-3 tweener in terms of competitive starting rotation slots. :shrug:

finally someone gets it!


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[brett05]

Sure he's worth more than both. My point is he's worth a percentage more than them and if they get next to nothing in a return his percentage is less than the Rays are willing to trade him for. It's the same with the cubs. If that's all they are getting offers for Shark then why would they deal him now? Neither the Rays nor the Cubs have to deal Price/Shark today. If that's the best offers they are getting they will wait til the trade deadline and hope scarcity improves their value.

The rays wont trade him for anything less than 2 top 50 prospects most likely and if they are getting offered say 1 top 50 and some other mid level prospects in that teams system they aren't going to trade him. The difference here is Detroit HAD to trade someone as they had more SP than rotation spots and they let Fister go cheaply for whatever reason. The rays and the cubs aren't in that situation.

The Cubs do not have to trade Jeff, that is right. No one has to trade anyone. The whole point is the value on Jeff and it took a major hit if you believe he was worth two major league ready arms and/or 3-4 good prospects. Those that said that have been shown to be wrong. Could he get there? Not the point. He's not there now.. And with all the pitchers drying up you would think that Jeff's value would go up in a trade right now. Problem is that many teams are getting set with what they have. Pitching is greater than demand right now.

 

[beckdawg]

The Cubs do not have to trade Jeff, that is right. No one has to trade anyone. The whole point is the value on Jeff and it took a major hit if you believe he was worth two major league ready arms and/or 3-4 good prospects. Those that said that have been shown to be wrong. Could he get there? Not the point. He's not there now.. And with all the pitchers drying up you would think that Jeff's value would go up in a trade right now. Problem is that many teams are getting set with what they have. Pitching is greater than demand right now.

Basically everyone is saying that Detroit got robbed in this trade. As such, I really doubt that's the market value on Shark. But, hypothetically if it is then the Cubs wont trade Shark because there's no point. The Fister trade was a bad trade for the Tigers. The cubs got substantially more for 2 months of Garza than the tigers got for 2 years of team control of Fister. The cubs wouldn't even consider a trade where they don't get at least that return back because clearly 2 years of Shark is worth more than 2 months of Garza.

 

[brett05]

Basically everyone is saying that Detroit got robbed in this trade. As such, I really doubt that's the market value on Shark. But, hypothetically if it is then the Cubs wont trade Shark because there's no point. The Fister trade was a bad trade for the Tigers. The cubs got substantially more for 2 months of Garza than the tigers got for 2 years of team control of Fister. The cubs wouldn't even consider a trade where they don't get at least that return back because clearly 2 years of Shark is worth more than 2 months of Garza.

The problem is that Garza is a playoff difference maker. Shark isn't today.
And I would not call the trade a robbing as it allows Detroit so much flexibility plus another quality arm prospect down the road.
But let's say it is. The issue is Fister > Shark. So at best this is what Shark is worth.

As I have said all along Shark isn't worth two MLB ready arms. He's not worth 3-4 top prospects. His most value comes from staying put and it also costs the Cubs the least amount of risk.

 

[DewsSox79]

The problem is that Garza is a playoff difference maker. Shark isn't today.
And I would not call the trade a robbing as it allows Detroit so much flexibility plus another quality arm prospect down the road.
But let's say it is. The issue is Fister > Shark. So at best this is what Shark is worth.

As I have said all along Shark isn't worth two MLB ready arms. He's not worth 3-4 top prospects. His most value comes from staying put and it also costs the Cubs the least amount of risk.

I mean they have enough bats to make the playoffs and when it comes down to the playoffs its usually just the first 3 starters who start and im pretty confident in V,sanchez,and scherzer. shark is not a difference maker for a true contender as Garza is so when people compare the 2 deals they are way off base.

 

[beckdawg]

http://espn.go.com/mlb/hotstove13/story/_/id/10072390/arizona-diamondbacks-searching-elite-starter

If Tampa is asking for Bradley and wont budge from there I would expect the cubs to have the inside shot. It sounds like Bradley is entirely off the table for Towers. I think the cubs would budge on Bradley but they are going to make it hurt for the Dbacks. Skaggs was #13 last year on baseball america's listings. Randall Delgado was #46 two years ago. So, if they are willing to move both those I think a deal is there to be made. Those two plus one or two of Braden Shipley, Zeke Spruill, Jake Barrett, Anthony Meo and Andrew Chafin for Shark and Schierholtz whom they've reportedly had interest in would make sense. It would also leave AZ with a lot to play with in their minors in terms of arms in their system as they would still have numerous young guys at the MLB level as well as several guys from the list above and Bradley.

Another thing I had thought about was the Yankees if they could find a third team like the Marlins who had young pitching. Shark at $5 mil is something that would entice the Yankees as they currently sit about $30 mil from the luxury tax and need 2 starters and possibly still want Cano. They have 4 top 100 prospects but only 1 is a pitcher and he's in the 90's. If the yanks gave up some grouping of Gary Sanchez, Mason Williams, Tyler Austin or Rafael De Paula and parts and got Shark with Miami giving up Andrew Heaney and other parts to the cubs with the Marlin's getting the yank's offensive guys I could see that happening. That being said, if AZ would give up Skaggs and Delgato I personally would prefer that package.

 

[brett05]

Crasnick lost his mind calling Shark elite

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[brett05]

http://espn.go.com/mlb/hotstove13/story/_/id/10072390/arizona-diamondbacks-searching-elite-starter

Skaggs was #13 last year on baseball america's listings. Randall Delgado was #46 two years ago. So, if they are willing to move both those I think a deal is there to be made. Those two plus one or two of Braden Shipley, Zeke Spruill, Jake Barrett, Anthony Meo and Andrew Chafin for Shark and Schierholtz whom they've reportedly had interest in would make sense. It would also leave AZ with a lot to play with in their minors in terms of arms in their system as they would still have numerous young guys at the MLB level as well as several guys from the list above and Bradley.

Another thing I had thought about was the Yankees if they could find a third team like the Marlins who had young pitching. Shark at $5 mil is something that would entice the Yankees as they currently sit about $30 mil from the luxury tax and need 2 starters and possibly still want Cano. They have 4 top 100 prospects but only 1 is a pitcher and he's in the 90's. If the yanks gave up some grouping of Gary Sanchez, Mason Williams, Tyler Austin or Rafael De Paula and parts and got Shark with Miami giving up Andrew Heaney and other parts to the cubs with the Marlin's getting the yank's offensive guys I could see that happening. That being said, if AZ would give up Skaggs and Delgato I personally would prefer that package.

And the dbacks will pass. Please put down the koolaid

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[SilenceS]

And the dbacks will pass. Please put down the koolaid

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The DBacks already know what package the Cubs want and they are trying to see what it would take to get Price. Skaggs and two other higher end prospects would be in the deal.

 

[brett05]

The DBacks already know what package the Cubs want and they are trying to see what it would take to get Price. Skaggs and two other higher end prospects would be in the deal.

Right they know what the Cubs want and are passing

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[beckdawg]

And the dbacks will pass. Please put down the koolaid

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Or you could stop hating on one of the better options on the pitching market. Delgado projects as a #4 at his ceiling. Skaggs is likely more in that 2/3 range as a ceiling. However, that's IF they reach their ceilings. Skaggs being the best piece in that sort of deal is currently sitting at a career ERA of 5.43. He needs work. Delgado had a 4.26 ERA last year which was marginally better than Shark however the other numbers aren't as good(6.11 k/9 vs 9.01 and 1.86 HR/9 vs 1.05...etc). I think any trade would likely include Schierholtz as well which solves another need for them as a power hitting RF. At the end of the day you're talking potential 2/3 and a 4 plus minor parts for a #3 and a starting RF.

 

[brett05]

Or you could stop hating on one of the better options on the pitching market. Delgado projects as a #4 at his ceiling. Skaggs is likely more in that 2/3 range as a ceiling. However, that's IF they reach their ceilings. Skaggs being the best piece in that sort of deal is currently sitting at a career ERA of 5.43. He needs work. Delgado had a 4.26 ERA last year which was marginally better than Shark however the other numbers aren't as good(6.11 k/9 vs 9.01 and 1.86 HR/9 vs 1.05...etc). I think any trade would likely include Schierholtz as well which solves another need for them as a power hitting RF. At the end of the day you're talking potential 2/3 and a 4 plus minor parts for a #3 and a starting RF.

Calling a spade a spade is not hating. Nice try.

Nick a power hitter??? Someone "kidnapped" your account

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[SilenceS]

Right they know what the Cubs want and are passing

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No, they didn't pass. They are trying to see what Price cost will be. They will circle back around if Price is outrageous. A lot of teams are waiting on Tanaka and then Price then going from there. To get Shark, a team will have to match there price and from reports the DBacks and Blue Jays are willing to meet this price.

 

[beckdawg]

Calling a spade a spade is not hating. Nice try.

Nick a power hitter??? Someone "kidnapped" your account

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Nate(not sure who nick is) hit 21 HRs last year in a part time split tieing him for 19th in the majors in HRs among outfielders. Yes he's a power hitting OF and he's cheap 2 things they want. They also supposedly talk to the A's about Yoenis Cespedes.

Cespedes - 574 PA's 74 runs 26 HRs 80 RBI 7 SB .240 avg .294 OBP
Schierholtz - 503 PA's 56 runs 21 HRs 68 RBI 6 SB .251 avg .301 OBP

Rosenthal reports that the D-Backs and A's recently discussed a trade that would send Yoenis Cespedes to Arizona in exchange for Tyler Skaggs, A.J. Pollock and others.

So please you're hate everything remotely cubs rhetoric is getting tiring. Schierholtz isn't probably worth quite as much as Cespedes but you give him another 71 PA's and put him on the A's he's putting up the same or very close to the same numbers Cespedes did. And Cespedes is apparently worth Skaggs plus other parts by himself. Schierholtz and Shark are easily enough to get Skaggs, Delgato and 1-2 more parts.

 

[brett05]

Nate(not sure who nick is) hit 21 HRs last year in a part time split tieing him for 19th in the majors in HRs among outfielders. Yes he's a power hitting OF and he's cheap 2 things they want. They also supposedly talk to the A's about Yoenis Cespedes.

Cespedes - 574 PA's 74 runs 26 HRs 80 RBI 7 SB .240 avg .294 OBP
Schierholtz - 503 PA's 56 runs 21 HRs 68 RBI 6 SB .251 avg .301 OBP



So please you're hate everything remotely cubs rhetoric is getting tiring. Schierholtz isn't probably worth quite as much as Cespedes but you give him another 71 PA's and put him on the A's he's putting up the same or very close to the same numbers Cespedes did. And Cespedes is apparently worth Skaggs plus other parts by himself. Schierholtz and Shark are easily enough to get Skaggs, Delgato and 1-2 more parts.

I'm falling asleep here. Sorry about that

You need a one day ban. Nick isn't a power hitter. (Given career numbers he might be using peds) and is not maybe as good as Cepedes.

You might want to take your own advice you gave me.

Stop treating Nick and Shark like family members

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[Boobaby1]

Right they know what the Cubs want and are passing

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The thing is, if Arizona thinks the Cubs price is high for Shark as far as prospects, wait till they see what Tampa will want for David Price. We have seen it first hand. Tampa doesn't budge an inch on their pitchers.

They know when to deal them, and the price (pardon the pun) is always hefty.

 

[brett05]

The thing is, if Arizona thinks the Cubs price is high for Shark as far as prospects, wait till they see what Tampa will want for David Price. We have seen it first hand. Tampa doesn't budge an inch on their pitchers.

This is all based if AZ even has an interest in Shark at all.

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[beckdawg]

You need a one day ban. Nick isn't a power hitter. (Given career numbers he might be using peds) and is not maybe as good as Cepedes.

You might want to take your own advice you gave me.

Stop treating Nick and Shark like family members

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Then why the hell are they even reportedly interested in Schierholtz if he's not worth having? If the dbacks didn't think Schierholtz was legit they wouldn't have talked to the cubs about him. I mean seriously it's like talking to a brick wall with you. You've not brought anything to the table that contradicts the reports that are out there besides your opinion that every cub player sucks apparently. Yet I'm the one treating these players unfairly.... cuz you know it's not like I've backed up anything i've said with actual reports.