Jeff Samardzija and Jason Hammel traded to Oakland Athletics for Addison Russell plus

[WindyCity]

I don't think it is a stretch to say that a proven major league commodity will net more in a trade than an unknown player.

But Castro also makes 10x what Russel makes which can effect what teams think of him despite his age and all stars.

 

[Parade_Rain]

I'm not sure what Castro makes matters here. While he certainly isn't a poor man, his contract is very manageable for any team.

 

[brett05]

Castro < Shark I do not see the return being greater.

 

[2323]

I deal with facts and statistics, not value judgements. Out of his 3 all-star years he was a 3plus WAR player twice, which is considered elite at the SS position.

WAR uses value judgments.

But aside from that, you keep bringing up all star appearances which isn't exactly the greatest way to make an argument for a player since it's voted on by 8 year olds and is skewed toward large market teams. Castros all star appearances are a function of being the most readily identified position player on a team with a huge fan base. Ironically, you keep trying to fuse together that with WAR. It's ironic because of what you said about dealing in facts.

 

[JP Hochbaum]

WAR uses value judgments.

But aside from that, you keep bringing up all star appearances which isn't exactly the greatest way to make an argument for a player since it's voted on by 8 year olds and is skewed toward large market teams. Castros all star appearances are a function of being the most readily identified position player on a team with a huge fan base. Ironically, you keep trying to fuse together that with WAR. It's ironic because of what you said about dealing in facts.

WAR is a value judgement? The only year Castro was voted to the ALL Star team and wasn't a top WAR player is this year. And he is still a 2 WAR player offensively.

Value judgments are subjective, WAR is objective, so not sure you know the difference between those two?

I think you are confusing the value of WAR being a calculation, and thinking it is a subjective value. It is based on numbers, not some opinions or judgments.

 

[nwfisch]

WAR uses value judgments.

But aside from that, you keep bringing up all star appearances which isn't exactly the greatest way to make an argument for a player since it's voted on by 8 year olds and is skewed toward large market teams. Castros all star appearances are a function of being the most readily identified position player on a team with a huge fan base. Ironically, you keep trying to fuse together that with WAR. It's ironic because of what you said about dealing in facts.

Not only that, the all-star game and pro-bowls give teams a "participation trophy" in that every team has to send someone to play.

 

[Parade_Rain]

WAR is a value judgement? The only year Castro was voted to the ALL Star team and wasn't a top WAR player is this year. And he is still a 2 WAR player offensively.

Value judgments are subjective, WAR is objective, so not sure you know the difference between those two?

WAR is somewhat subjective on the D side of things. However, that said, where you have things correct is WAR in comparison to the other SS. I think most teams would be thrilled with 3+ WAR SS. Also, while a defensive SS with no bat is OK, I'd rather have a stick in the lineup. You have to score runs to win ball games. After watching Shark pitch a bunch of gems the first half of the season with very little to show for it, that should be obvious. Apparently, it isn't to some.

 

[chibears55]

I think everyone needs to put the trading castro pipes away for a while....

If baez comes up this month he playing 2B or 3B, so their not trading him this deadline.

Their not trading castro in off season cause baez if he brought up will stick at 2B or 3B and if he isn't brought up their not trading castro without having a solid guaranteed replacement for him.

Addison Russell is at least 1 year away depending on how he does and even if he rakes, then the question is do they bring him up early or wait til may 2016 (super2).. same questions were asking about baez n bryant now.

So, I think the earliest we can start thinking about a possible castro trade would be next deadline and more realistic time would be off season 2015 but I think that all determined more on where Russell is more then baez who I think will be at either 3B or 2B when he up.

Castro worth and players returned for him will all be different next year.

 

[chibears55]

Not only that, the all-star game and pro-bowls give teams a "participation trophy" in that every team has to send someone to play.

I dont disagree but that someone is usually the best player on team if its just the one...
considering the cubs have 3 players representing, means all 3 are deserving and put up AS numbers for their position.

I dont understand why some of you real cubs fans hate on Castro so much, yes he made some dumb mental mistakes which were seeing less of this year. I cant even think of any that stands out for this year. But he a 24 YO kid who is rounding into a pretty good offensive player and for the most part has been solid with the glove this year.

Time to put last year hitting slump behind and all his past mental mistakes behind because it looks like the kid has taken a step forward in the maturing process.
Last thing we want now as a cubs fan is to trade away young talent too soon and regret it later just because you didn't like the mistakes he made early in his career.

If baez or Russell comes up and out plays him that one thing , but til then castro the guy and he playing good baseball.

 

[2323]

WAR is somewhat subjective on the D side of things. However, that said, where you have things correct is WAR in comparison to the other SS. I think most teams would be thrilled with 3+ WAR SS. Also, while a defensive SS with no bat is OK, I'd rather have a stick in the lineup. You have to score runs to win ball games. After watching Shark pitch a bunch of gems the first half of the season with very little to show for it, that should be obvious. Apparently, it isn't to some.

Its very subjective. Fielding is such a small component also, which presents a flaw in itself. For example, let's say that you put Nelson Cruz at SS in real life. Sure his defense will be bad. Awful probably. But the defensive component of WAR is so overshadowed by offensive production, it's conceivable that the offense reflected in WAR will easily outweigh the poor defensive rating. And this isn't even addressing the uniform positional adjustments.

 

[JP Hochbaum]

I think everyone needs to put the trading castro pipes away for a while....

If baez comes up this month he playing 2B or 3B, so their not trading him this deadline.

Their not trading castro in off season cause baez if he brought up will stick at 2B or 3B and if he isn't brought up their not trading castro without having a solid guaranteed replacement for him.

Addison Russell is at least 1 year away depending on how he does and even if he rakes, then the question is do they bring him up early or wait til may 2016 (super2).. same questions were asking about baez n bryant now.

So, I think the earliest we can start thinking about a possible castro trade would be next deadline and more realistic time would be off season 2015 but I think that all determined more on where Russell is more then baez who I think will be at either 3B or 2B when he up.

Castro worth and players returned for him will all be different next year.

Totally agree. Right now we have no idea what we have at the major league level, production wise. We know we have talent, and that's it.

It is fun to play the guessing game of who will play where but the front office would be stupid to trade people this early in the game. People are going to be busts, some may get hurt and lose their spot to someone who does better. we have no idea what this team will pan out to be.

 

[SilenceS]

Its very subjective. Fielding is such a small component also, which presents a flaw in itself. For example, let's say that you put Nelson Cruz at SS in real life. Sure his defense will be bad. Awful probably. But the defensive component of WAR is so overshadowed by offensive production, it's conceivable that the offense reflected in WAR will easily outweigh the poor defensive rating. And this isn't even addressing the uniform positional adjustments.

Not true at all, look at Darwin Barneys gold glove year. You have no idea how it works.

 

[2323]

I think everyone needs to put the trading castro pipes away for a while....

If baez comes up this month he playing 2B or 3B, so their not trading him this deadline.

Their not trading castro in off season cause baez if he brought up will stick at 2B or 3B and if he isn't brought up their not trading castro without having a solid guaranteed replacement for him.

Addison Russell is at least 1 year away depending on how he does and even if he rakes, then the question is do they bring him up early or wait til may 2016 (super2).. same questions were asking about baez n bryant now.

So, I think the earliest we can start thinking about a possible castro trade would be next deadline and more realistic time would be off season 2015 but I think that all determined more on where Russell is more then baez who I think will be at either 3B or 2B when he up.

Castro worth and players returned for him will all be different next year.

A few posts ago it was conceded that neither Rizzo or Castro are likely to be traded. So this discussion has been more about what they should do and less about what they likely will do. And in that same sense, it hasn't really been dependent on Baez or Russell. Even if Baez and Russell are moved to other positions, that doesn't automatically mean Castro should remain the SS, or even on the Cubs. If the Cubs can get a good pitcher for Castro, they should take it and not look back.

 

[SilenceS]

Also, Castro was voted in by the players. Castro and Shark were voted in at the same time. The Cubs had two all stars when the players vote ended on Thursday. He wasnt chosen because the Cubs needed a representative. He was chosen by the guys he plays the game with but Im sure a bunch of message board heroes no more than the players.

 

[2323]

Not true at all, look at Darwin Barneys gold glove year. You have no idea how it works.

Go dig up the formula then.

 

[SilenceS]

A few posts ago it was conceded that neither Rizzo or Castro are likely to be traded. So this discussion has been more about what they should do and less about what they likely will do. And in that same sense, it hasn't really been dependent on Baez or Russell. Even if Baez and Russell are moved to other positions, that doesn't automatically mean Castro should remain the SS, or even on the Cubs. If the Cubs can get a good pitcher for Castro, they should take it and not look back.

So, you rather trade a proven commodity for pitching than an unproven commodity that probably gets the job done?

 

[SilenceS]

Go dig up the formula then.

lol

 

[2323]

lol

Well...?

 

[chibears55]

A few posts ago it was conceded that neither Rizzo or Castro are likely to be traded. So this discussion has been more about what they should do and less about what they likely will do. And in that same sense, it hasn't really been dependent on Baez or Russell. Even if Baez and Russell are moved to other positions, that doesn't automatically mean Castro should remain the SS, or even on the Cubs. If the Cubs can get a good pitcher for Castro, they should take it and not look back.

Not saying they should never trade castro, just basically saying before they do they need to make sure whomever replaces him can put up equal to better numbers then him.

 

[2323]

So, you rather trade a proven commodity for pitching than an unproven commodity that probably gets the job done?

What has Castro proven?

Also, I said a good pitcher. Nowhere did I make reference to a level of experience.