Jeff Samardzija and Jason Hammel traded to Oakland Athletics for Addison Russell plus

[Parade_Rain]

http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=russel001add&mobile=false

Bouncey

You mean the standard progression for a young player of rookie to A- to A to A+ and now he's in AA? Are you not seeing the late season callups to AAA and you think he's "bouncey"?

 

[beckdawg]

I don't remember if it was this topic or the other that was talking about the PTBNL and why it wasn't announced. Raul Alcantara had tommy john surgery and it would make a lot of sense if he were the final piece. Additionally, he was part of the Bailey/Ryan Sweeney trade to Boston in 2011. So, he would make a lot of sense given the Theo connection and that he's the remaining top oakland pitching prospect.

 

[2323]

Why are you trading center pieces away when they are 8 games under .500? That makes zero sense. Baez isn't up and who knows if he can succeed at the MLB level? Russell is in AA currently and will likely be in AAA next season. Castro has rebounded and will have better power numbers this season. He has not entered his prime power years yet and has a team-friendly contract. But yeah. Let's just bank on a bunch of prospects and trade a known AS for pitchers who may or may not help the ball cub get to .500.

Centerpiece?...you're joking right?! Haven't the front office already banked on a bunch of prospects? You might as well jump in the pool if your clothes are already wet.

Its not that he off limit, some are all ready to trade castro when there really no reason to do so now..

Baez is the nearest replacement for him who is still a season away and could easily be moved to 3B or 2B when brought up.

The guy they just got Addison Russell is at least 2 seasons away


There absolutely no reason to trade a 24 YO SS now who starting to come into his own and tied up for the next 6 yrs on a team friendly deal..

The earliest I see them possibly trading castro would be off season 2015 or deadline 2016 if they feel baez is better suited at SS or Russell forces the move for him to play there..

How far away is Garzas replacement? How far away is Hammels replacement? Samardzija's? Demoster's?

In case you weren't aware, they've already gone down that path. They're past the point of no return really. Theos success or failure doesn't depend on Castro. It's depends on what they have in the minors.

Also, hasn't Theo said the worst case scenario is winning 70-83 games?

 

[Parade_Rain]

Centerpiece?...you're joking right?! Haven't the front office already banked on a bunch of prospects? You might as well jump in the pool if your clothes are already wet.

Just hyperbole on your part. Why would Theo trade Castro this year? Why would they trade Castro at all? Baez is Castro in the sense that he is a Hendry guy who doesn't take ABs the current Cubs' way. Baez played 2B and CF mostly. He really isn't a natural SS. As for Russell, now the word is out that his body type doesn't necessarily lend itself to SS, so perhaps he could move to 3B if Bryant needs to go to RF. You also are too dismissive of verterans needed to surround the wave of prospects that is coming up soon. Yes. Castro and Rizzo are vets. They aren't going to be trading Castro away with as friendly of a contract as he has either.

 

[chibears55]

How far away is Garzas replacement? How far away is Hammels replacement? Samardzija's? Demoster's?

In case you weren't aware, they've already gone down that path. They're past the point of no return really. Theos success or failure doesn't depend on Castro. It's depends on what they have in the minors.

Also, hasn't Theo said the worst case scenario is winning 70-83 games?

Sorry but actually kind of a dumb comparison...

Dempster and garza over 30 in last year of contract when traded

Dempster was replaced by travis wood..
Garza was replaced by Arrieta..

Samardzija rejected an extension and has 1 yr of control left

Replacement TBD in off season


Hammel over 30 having career yr in his 1 yr deal

you could probably say straily is his replacement and should be up at some point this year.


Didn't see or hear about theo quote of worse case scenario winning 70-83 games.. that actually a wide margin of games between 70 and 83..

 

[brett05]

I don't remember if it was this topic or the other that was talking about the PTBNL and why it wasn't announced. Raul Alcantara had tommy john surgery and it would make a lot of sense if he were the final piece. Additionally, he was part of the Bailey/Ryan Sweeney trade to Boston in 2011. So, he would make a lot of sense given the Theo connection and that he's the remaining top oakland pitching prospect.

It would except the experts say its a throw in piece

 

[JZsportsfan]

Cubs were starting to look pretty good and at this point have the 8th pick in the draft. This trade pretty much ensures that they don't land outside of the top 10 and thus lose their 1st round pick in FA. So they get another top tier prospect and should be more aggressive in FA as a result.

 

[beckdawg]

It would except the experts say its a throw in piece

Well mlb.com has him at a 50 overall grade which is roughly what Vizcaino was. And given he's having Tommy John... I could see that being something they would be willing to give up. He'd be a bit of a gamble piece that the cubs often take on. I can't think of any other reason for it to be PTBNL. It almost assuredly would have to be one of their top remaining 20 prospects which is basically a totally barren system. Chris Kohler hasn't played since last fall and Dustin Driver like wise hasn't pitched since last fall. So, presumably it would have to be one of those 3 players. I suppose it could be either of those as well. Just as a reference the PTBNL in the Garza deal was Ramirez and MLB.com had him at a 45 grade. So, that seems like it would put the PTBNL more in those two territory but who knows when you start talking tommy john since you're losing a full year of development and Raul Alcantara is already 21.

 

[brett05]

Well mlb.com has him at a 50 overall grade which is roughly what Vizcaino was. And given he's having Tommy John... I could see that being something they would be willing to give up. He'd be a bit of a gamble piece that the cubs often take on. I can't think of any other reason for it to be PTBNL. It almost assuredly would have to be one of their top remaining 20 prospects which is basically a totally barren system. Chris Kohler hasn't played since last fall and Dustin Driver like wise hasn't pitched since last fall. So, presumably it would have to be one of those 3 players. I suppose it could be either of those as well. Just as a reference the PTBNL in the Garza deal was Ramirez and MLB.com had him at a 45 grade. So, that seems like it would put the PTBNL more in those two territory but who knows when you start talking tommy john since you're losing a full year of development and Raul Alcantara is already 21.

I hear ya

I could see it being a guy on the 25 man roster

 

[chibears55]

Well mlb.com has him at a 50 overall grade which is roughly what Vizcaino was. And given he's having Tommy John... I could see that being something they would be willing to give up. He'd be a bit of a gamble piece that the cubs often take on. I can't think of any other reason for it to be PTBNL. It almost assuredly would have to be one of their top remaining 20 prospects which is basically a totally barren system. Chris Kohler hasn't played since last fall and Dustin Driver like wise hasn't pitched since last fall. So, presumably it would have to be one of those 3 players. I suppose it could be either of those as well. Just as a reference the PTBNL in the Garza deal was Ramirez and MLB.com had him at a 45 grade. So, that seems like it would put the PTBNL more in those two territory but who knows when you start talking tommy john since you're losing a full year of development and Raul Alcantara is already 21.

Any chance it could be someone on the major league roster ? do they have someone on DL ? Also they have 6 mos. to finalize who the player could be

 

[beckdawg]

Any chance it could be someone on the major league roster ? do they have someone on DL ? Also they have 6 mos. to finalize who the player could be

A.J. Griffin Disabled List 60-day DL **
11 Jarrod Parker Disabled List 60-day DL ** R-R 6'1" 195 Nov 24, 1988
13 Drew Pomeranz Disabled List 15-day DL *
Kyle Blanks Disabled List 15-day DL *
Josh Reddick Disabled List 15-day DL *

I'm guessing these guys are all no's.

 

[chibears55]

Drew pomeranz is someone they could get in return

 

[beckdawg]

Drew pomeranz is someone they could get in return

Highly doubt it. He was just moved as part of the brett anderson trade in the offseason. He was form top 10 prospect IIRC.

 

[Shawon0Meter]

7 IP, 4 H, 1 R, 1 BB 5 K

Shark exited the game with his team up 3-1

 

[2323]

Just hyperbole on your part. Why would Theo trade Castro this year? Why would they trade Castro at all? Baez is Castro in the sense that he is a Hendry guy who doesn't take ABs the current Cubs' way. Baez played 2B and CF mostly. He really isn't a natural SS. As for Russell, now the word is out that his body type doesn't necessarily lend itself to SS, so perhaps he could move to 3B if Bryant needs to go to RF. You also are too dismissive of verterans needed to surround the wave of prospects that is coming up soon. Yes. Castro and Rizzo are vets. They aren't going to be trading Castro away with as friendly of a contract
Originally Posted by wkkoch389
How is it good news? I don't follow.
tells Phil hes leaving and says either trade him to Chicago or hes going to LA

Carmelo Anthony didn't deliver his free-agency decision Saturday, but the Bulls hope he delivered a message.

Several national media outlets reported that the Lakers have joined the Knicks and Bulls as serious contenders for the seven-time All-Star's services.

While the negative view of that development would be more competition, a best-case scenario would be that Anthony is trying to create leverage to force the Knicks into sign-and-trade talks with the Bulls.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports...,6386349.story as he has either.

Not really. It depends on what they can get for Castro.

Also, in case you're not aware, there's a dearth of power in Major League Baseball. That's why you'd keep Baez and trade Castro and/or Rizzo. Since Rizzo is at the major league level already, they can get more for him and put Scwarber/Vogelbach/Bryant at first.

I actually remember we hen Theo was first hired and he did an interview where he endorsed the Baez pick and said he was thinking the Cubs had figured out how to draft.

Baez could hit .250 and it would have more impact than Castro, should Castro hit .300 again.

 

[beckdawg]

1. Addison Russell, SS, Cubs — Why would the Cubs obtain another shortstop in the Jeff Samardzija deal to go with Starlin Castro and Xavier Baez? Because Russell is a former first-round pick who is going to change positions, likely to third or the outfield, anyway. The Cubs got two former first-round picks (outfielder Billy McKinney the other), righthander Dan Straily, a Rookie of the Year candidate last season with Oakland, and what will be a significant player to be named. The Cubs are hoping to turn Straily into their next Jake Arrieta, who nearly no-hit the Red Sox last week.

Nick Cafardo wrote this here
http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2...ame-rosters/rlQGFsw82Osh83lwIWUG8J/story.html

I've definitely not heard this about Russell in things I've read. In general, most people suggested he could be very good there though I did read some worried about him adding too much weight as he got older. Think this is a case of him not knowing what he's talking about(see: Xavier Baez).

 

[dabynsky]

Nick Cafardo wrote this here
http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2...ame-rosters/rlQGFsw82Osh83lwIWUG8J/story.html

I've definitely not heard this about Russell in things I've read. In general, most people suggested he could be very good there though I did read some worried about him adding too much weight as he got older. Think this is a case of him not knowing what he's talking about(see: Xavier Baez).

I've had quite a few people in the know suggest that Russell would be the first real challenge to Castro at SS, but Russell could also handle 2B/3B rather well. In fact Paul Sullivan had the options that the FO specifically listed for each guy in a tweet over the weekend:

Theo clears up positions: Javy SS, 2B, 3B or OF. Bryant 3B or RF. Arismendy 2B, SS or OF. Addison SS, 3B or 2B.

Given athleticism and arm I am guessing Russell could handle a corner OF spot fairly well and maybe (maybe) CF. Again the problem of having too many middle infielders that can hit (especially for power) is not a real problem.

 

[Parade_Rain]

Not really. It depends on what they can get for Castro.

Also, in case you're not aware, there's a dearth of power in Major League Baseball. That's why you'd keep Baez and trade Castro and/or Rizzo. Since Rizzo is at the major league level already, they can get more for him and put Scwarber/Vogelbach/Bryant at first.

I actually remember we hen Theo was first hired and he did an interview where he endorsed the Baez pick and said he was thinking the Cubs had figured out how to draft.

Baez could hit .250 and it would have more impact than Castro, should Castro hit .300 again.

Just as an FYI, I am aware of what is going on with hitting in the MLB. The fact that you think the Cubs would be trading Rizzo and replacing with Vogelbach tells me everything I need to know. They traded for Rizzo FFS. He's signed to a reasonable contract. They will not be trading away Rizzo. You are also reading right through what I have posted which is this season. Castro is not getting traded this season.

 

[2323]

Just as an FYI, I am aware of what is going on with hitting in the MLB. The fact that you think the Cubs would be trading Rizzo and replacing with Vogelbach tells me everything I need to know. They traded for Rizzo FFS. He's signed to a reasonable contract. They will not be trading away Rizzo. You are also reading right through what I have posted which is this season. Castro is not getting traded this season.

I agree they likely won't trade them. But I'm talking about what they should do. And the whole notion of a timeline has been invalidated. For some time the timeline has depended on the arrival of guys like Baez and Bryant and having the pitching when they get there. But that's out the window now.

They likely won't trade Castro. They've coddled him too much. Also, they won't trade Rizzo because he's "their" guy. Hoyer is obsessed with Rizzo. Everywhere Hoyer goes, he brings Rizzo with him.

But since Rizzo and Castro are both at the major league level, they're value is high. Castro is young and Rizzo has some pop in his bat. These are the guys they should trade. If they play it right, they can have a golden generation of players coming through the system and arriving at the same time. It would be similar to the Braves in the early 90s. Actually, it might be more like the Indians of the 90s since the Cubs seem to have more offense coming through the system.

Edit--it would be stupid to trade Baez. The guy could be a generational talent with that bat speed/power. I know some here are really into metrics and like to focus on red flags. The problem with that is it's a one size fits all analysis based on ceteris paribus assumptions and homogenization of players. What happens when he makes contact is so spectacular and the talent is so glaring, the Cubs can't afford to trade him because the risk of being wrong is huge.

And in the case of Baez, you really have to look under the hood more than other prospects to assuage doubts. One of the great things about his bat speed, aside from the physics of it's impact on the ball, is that it gives him a greater opportunity to be patient. This is something he'll likely learn about his swing over time. His vat speed gives him a greater ability to not commit to pitches.if Baez is sitting curve but gets a fastball, Baez has a better chance to still do something with the pitch.

 

[Parade_Rain]

But since Rizzo and Castro are both at the major league level, they're value is high. Castro is young and Rizzo has some pop in his bat. These are the guys they should trade. If they play it right, they can have a golden generation of players coming through the system and arriving at the same time.

That's not the way things work. Once you trade both of those players, you have zero veteran leadership on the team. They will likely be there when the first wave comes up (Baez, Bryant, Alcantara). As for Baez, thanks for the strawman. I didn't suggest they trade him.