Jimmy Butler calls out Hoiberg, says Fred needs to be tougher

[SilenceS]

poor reading comprehension is whats going on here. Does butler physically have a higher ceiling than wade? Yes.

We are watching butler's game grow. If he reaches his physical potential, he will be the most dominant 2 guard since a prime kobe. But hey, lets not appreciate what is happening on this team.

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:facepalm:

 

[ursamajor]

https://youtu.be/lSwv3Bt4gaE

I've been watching a complete player, who really only needs to be averaging 20 shots a game to average 25+. His usage is too low. What did he do with 23 attempts tonight? 42 points.

Wade has never been a good 3 point shooter-early on he made his money in the paint, and was purely a slasher. But being smaller, the beatings took a toll. But a guard who is bigger, stronger, and can bang with 4's and 5's has a lower ceiling? I could see your point if Butler was a 1 trick pony like Klay, and was merely a spot up/catch and shoot Guard, who couldn't create off the dribble, but its not the case.

Jimmy is also a better shooter than Wade, now or ever-esp from 3.

:facepalm:

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[Axl Rose]

Wade was a proven superstar and FMVP at the age of 24. Butler is 26 and still has a ways to go if he wants to reach that hypothetical ceiling...hes not even on the level of a MVP Rose yet

lets be real, this is you:

great performance by Jimmy lets not undermine it by being stupid

 

[ursamajor]

Wade was a proven superstar and FMVP at the age of 24. Butler is 26 and still has a ways to go if he wants to reach that hypothetical ceiling...hes not even on the level of a MVP Rose yet

lets be real, this is you:

great performance by Jimmy lets not undermine it by being stupid

It was beyond a great performance. I'm not talking about merely the points. It was Jordanesque in its mentality. If someone legitimately pissed Jordan off, he was going to come at you, and at you, and at you. He was going to humiliate you for the entire game.

Carroll, one of the best perimeter defenders in the game, gave Jimmy a shot in the mouth, requiring a stitch. A pissed off Jimmy came at Carroll, not just a bit, but for the remainder of the game. He faced him up, posted him up, crossed him up. Played through him, around him (with both hands). Took him off glass etc etc. I don't think there was a single way in which Jimmy didn't abuse Carroll in today's game. He left no rock for Carroll to hind under. He beat him like a rented mule.

That was Jordanesque.

But being able to do that at will isn't "it" apparently.

 

[houheffna]

He is bigger and stronger than Wade, as well as more durable. He has a higher ceiling than Wade.

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I don't see Butler having a higher ceiling than Wade. Wade is one of the top 5 SGs in league history in my opinion.

 

[ursamajor]

I don't see Butler having a higher ceiling than Wade. Wade is one of the top 5 SGs in league history in my opinion.

I am speaking ceiling in terms of athleticism

Butler is bigger, stronger, and even has a higher vertical (35 vs 39)

Coming into the league, Wade was clearly a better creator off the Dribble, and more aggressive attacking the rim. But I am talking about maxing out their athletic potential. Not to mention that Butler is getting dominant in those areas. He also has strength that allows him to both post up, and defend bigger players than Wade, considering Jimmy has a significant size and strength advantage.

Jimmy is also already a markedly better shooter from the field than Wade has ever been.


Jimmy has room for improvement, but as a pure athlete, he has a higher ceiling. Physically he is capable of doing things that Wade wasnt or isn't.




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[SilenceS]

I am speaking ceiling in terms of athleticism

Butler is bigger, stronger, and even has a higher vertical (35 vs 39)

Coming into the league, Wade was clearly a better creator off the Dribble, and more aggressive attacking the rim. But I am talking about maxing out their athletic potential. Not to mention that Butler is getting dominant in those areas. He also has strength that allows him to both post up, and defend bigger players than Wade, considering Jimmy has a significant size and strength advantage.

Jimmy is also already a markedly better shooter from the field than Wade has ever been.


Jimmy has room for improvement, but as a pure athlete, he has a higher ceiling. Physically he is capable of doing things that Wade wasnt or isn't.




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So did Tyrus Thomas

 

[SilenceS]

I am speaking ceiling in terms of athleticism

Butler is bigger, stronger, and even has a higher vertical (35 vs 39)

Coming into the league, Wade was clearly a better creator off the Dribble, and more aggressive attacking the rim. But I am talking about maxing out their athletic potential. Not to mention that Butler is getting dominant in those areas. He also has strength that allows him to both post up, and defend bigger players than Wade, considering Jimmy has a significant size and strength advantage.

Jimmy is also already a markedly better shooter from the field than Wade has ever been.


Jimmy has room for improvement, but as a pure athlete, he has a higher ceiling. Physically he is capable of doing things that Wade wasnt or isn't.




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What? Age 26 season.

Wade .469 FG%, .286 3FG%

Butler .447 FG%, .318 3FG%

Wade- Only player in history with 50 points, 10 rebound, and 9 assist in a game.

 

[ursamajor]

So did Tyrus Thomas

Now.you have to be trolling. Did Tyrus show a champion's discipline in growing his game? Give his highest effort every game he played? Show a very high bball IQ? Play hard on both ends every night?

Jimmy is likely to play to his potential, as he has as high a work ethic as any ever has.

Tyrus Thomas? You think his mental wherewithal is even in the same zip code as Butler's?

There have always been phenomenal athletes in the NBA. The cream rises to the top by how they work.

Jimmy is maximizing his opportunity, Tyrus just got by on his athleticism, and never grew as a player.

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[ursamajor]

What? Age 26 season.

Wade .469 FG%, .286 3FG%

Butler .447 FG%, .318 3FG%

Wade- Only player in history with 50 points, 10 rebound, and 9 assist in a game.

Wade did not shoot as frequently from the ranges Butler does. The overwhelming majority of his attempts came in the paint. Even on 3's, Wade averaged less than 2 attempts a game, whereas Butler averages over 3.

Butler also takes more shots from midrange (Wade was abysmal away from the basket).

But we are starting to see Hoiberg take the cuffs off of Butler. His PPG is going to see a nice spike because of it.

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[Benchmob757]

I understand people getting excited about Jimmy being a great player but Jesus, man, D.Wade won a finals MVP and straight up dominated when the heat won that championship. It's like we have short term memory. Don't compare the two. You can compare Thompson and Jimmy. While butler may be better off the dribble, when Thompson gets hot the guy is automatic, I haven't seen very many players knock down shots like he does when he's in a rhythm. I'd take Jimmy over Thompson but a pure shooter like Thompson (especially when he's the second option) is so hard to take out of the game.


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[SilenceS]

Now.you have to be trolling. Did Tyrus show a champion's discipline in growing his game? Give his highest effort every game he played? Show a very high bball IQ? Play hard on both ends every night?

Jimmy is likely to play to his potential, as he has as high a work ethic as any ever has.

Tyrus Thomas? You think his mental wherewithal is even in the same zip code as Butler's?

There have always been phenomenal athletes in the NBA. The cream rises to the top by how they work.

Jimmy is maximizing his opportunity, Tyrus just got by on his athleticism, and never grew as a player.

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You are all over the place. You said body and athletically he has a higher ceiling than wade. I said so did Tyrus Thomas. He is more physically gifted than both. Then, you turn it into Butler's iq and other things. But, you ignore Dwades unreal run at the '06 championship at age 24. Butler season this season is about Wades rookie season. To compare the two is ridiculous. You are either being a complete homer or have the memory of a jellyfish


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[SilenceS]

I understand people getting excited about Jimmy being a great player but Jesus, man, D.Wade won a finals MVP and straight up dominated when the heat won that championship. It's like we have short term memory. Don't compare the two. You can compare Thompson and Jimmy. While butler may be better off the dribble, when Thompson gets hot the guy is automatic, I haven't seen very many players knock down shots like he does when he's in a rhythm. I'd take Jimmy over Thompson but a pure shooter like Thompson (especially when he's the second option) is so hard to take out of the game.


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Thompson scored 37 in one quarter. He must be better than Wade and MJ


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[ursamajor]

Memory of a Jellyfish? Maybe you have the reading comprehension of a kindergartner.

I said "Physically Butler has the POTENTIAL to be the most dominant 2 guard since a prime Kobe." I NEVER said "Butler IS the most dominant 2 guard since a prime Kobe".

And I am not all over the place. Your Tyrus Thomas analogy was asinine at best. Thomas was a lazy player who rested on his laurels, and was BBall dumb. Not even remotely a valid comparison to Butler.

Try harder.

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[Benchmob757]

Thompson scored 37 in one quarter. He must be better than Wade and MJ


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That's how this works, right?


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[Axl Rose]

yeah Jimmy is more athletic than Wade because hes taller and jumped higher in his combine. lets just ignore quickness, lets ignore body control, lets ignore Wade's 6'11 wingspan while Jimmy has a subpar 6'7 wingspan

 

[SilenceS]

NBA achievements[edit]
3x NBA champion: 2006, 2012, 2013
5 NBA Finals appearances
NBA Finals MVP: 2006
NBA All-Star Game MVP: 2010
11x NBA All-Star: 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015
8x All-NBA:
First Team: 2009, 2010
Second Team: 2005, 2006, 2011
Third Team: 2007 2012, 2013
3× NBA All-Defensive:
Second Team: 2005, 2009, 2010
NBA All-Rookie First Team: 2004
NBA Scoring Champion: 2009
6× NBA Eastern Conference Player of the Month
18× NBA Eastern Conference Player of the Week
NBA All-Star Skills Challenge Champion: 2006, 2007
Only player 6-foot-4 and under to record 700 blocks[2]
Regular Season[edit]
First player of 6 ft. 4 in. or shorter to register at least 100 blocks in a season.
Only player in NBA history to accumulate at least 2,000 points, 500 assists, 100 steals, and 100 blocks in a season.
Only player in NBA history to record at least 50 points, 10 rebounds, and 9 assists in a game.
One of three players in NBA history to record a triple double in an NBA All-Star game.
Includes LeBron James and Michael Jordan.
One of four players in NBA history to record at least 30 points and 12 assists in three consecutive games.[3]
Includes Oscar Robertson (achieved this four times), Nate Archibald, and Kevin Johnson.
One of five players in NBA history to record at least 2,000 points, 500 assists, and 150 steals in a season.
Includes Michael Jordan (achieved this twice), Allen Iverson (achieved this twice), Larry Bird, and LeBron James.
One of five players in NBA history to record at least 30 points, 15 assists, and 5 rebounds in a game at least three times.
Includes Magic Johnson, Tim Hardaway, Baron Davis, and Chris Paul.
One of five players in NBA history to record at least 40 points, 5 assists, 5 rebounds, and 5 steals in a game multiple times.
Includes Michael Jordan, Clyde Drexler, Allen Iverson, and Chris Paul.
One of eight players in NBA history to record at least 35 points, 15 assists and 5 rebounds in a game.
Includes Magic Johnson (achieved this four times), Baron Davis (achieved this twice), Clyde Drexler, Michael Jordan, Allen Iverson, Nate Robinson, and Chris Paul.
NBA Finals[edit]
Most free throws made in a game: 21 (2006)
Second most steals in an NBA Finals series: 16 (2006)
Youngest player in NBA history to average 30 points in an NBA Finals series en route to an NBA championship.
T-1st for most points in the fourth quarter of a NBA Finals game with 17.
Tied with Shaquille O'Neal, Kevin Durant, Russell Westbrook, and Stephen Curry.
One of four players in NBA history to record at least 40 points in at least two games in a single NBA Finals series.
Includes Michael Jordan, Allen Iverson, and Lebron James.
One of five players in NBA history to record at least 30 points, 10 rebounds, and 5 assists in an NBA Finals clinching game.[4]
Includes John Havlicek, Magic Johnson, James Worthy, and Hakeem Olajuwon.
Miami Heat franchise records[edit]
Statistics accurate as of the conclusion of games on February 8, 2015

Games played, career: 754
Minutes, career: 27,460
Points, career: 19,254
Field goals made, career: 6,567
Field goal attempts, career: 13,350
Free throws made, career: 4,732
Free throw attempts, career: 6,192
Assists, career: 4,489
Steals, career: 1,300
Steals per game, career: 1.7
Turnovers, career: 2,587
Points per game, season: 30.2 (2008-2009)
Steals per game, season: 2.2 (2008-2009)[5]
College[edit]
Conference USA Player of the Year: 2003
Consensus First Team All-American: 2003
United States National Team[edit]
2x Olympic medalist:
Gold: 2008
Bronze: 2004
FIBA World Championship medalist:
Bronze: 2006
Other[edit]
Best NBA Player ESPY Award: 2006
Ranked as one of the top 10 shooting guards in NBA history by Fox Sports[6]

 

[Scoot26]

NBA achievements[edit]
3x NBA champion: 2006, 2012, 2013
5 NBA Finals appearances
NBA Finals MVP: 2006
NBA All-Star Game MVP: 2010
11x NBA All-Star: 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015
8x All-NBA:
First Team: 2009, 2010
Second Team: 2005, 2006, 2011
Third Team: 2007 2012, 2013
3× NBA All-Defensive:
Second Team: 2005, 2009, 2010
NBA All-Rookie First Team: 2004
NBA Scoring Champion: 2009
6× NBA Eastern Conference Player of the Month
18× NBA Eastern Conference Player of the Week
NBA All-Star Skills Challenge Champion: 2006, 2007
Only player 6-foot-4 and under to record 700 blocks[2]
Regular Season[edit]
First player of 6 ft. 4 in. or shorter to register at least 100 blocks in a season.
Only player in NBA history to accumulate at least 2,000 points, 500 assists, 100 steals, and 100 blocks in a season.
Only player in NBA history to record at least 50 points, 10 rebounds, and 9 assists in a game.
One of three players in NBA history to record a triple double in an NBA All-Star game.
Includes LeBron James and Michael Jordan.
One of four players in NBA history to record at least 30 points and 12 assists in three consecutive games.[3]
Includes Oscar Robertson (achieved this four times), Nate Archibald, and Kevin Johnson.
One of five players in NBA history to record at least 2,000 points, 500 assists, and 150 steals in a season.
Includes Michael Jordan (achieved this twice), Allen Iverson (achieved this twice), Larry Bird, and LeBron James.
One of five players in NBA history to record at least 30 points, 15 assists, and 5 rebounds in a game at least three times.
Includes Magic Johnson, Tim Hardaway, Baron Davis, and Chris Paul.
One of five players in NBA history to record at least 40 points, 5 assists, 5 rebounds, and 5 steals in a game multiple times.
Includes Michael Jordan, Clyde Drexler, Allen Iverson, and Chris Paul.
One of eight players in NBA history to record at least 35 points, 15 assists and 5 rebounds in a game.
Includes Magic Johnson (achieved this four times), Baron Davis (achieved this twice), Clyde Drexler, Michael Jordan, Allen Iverson, Nate Robinson, and Chris Paul.
NBA Finals[edit]
Most free throws made in a game: 21 (2006)
Second most steals in an NBA Finals series: 16 (2006)
Youngest player in NBA history to average 30 points in an NBA Finals series en route to an NBA championship.
T-1st for most points in the fourth quarter of a NBA Finals game with 17.
Tied with Shaquille O'Neal, Kevin Durant, Russell Westbrook, and Stephen Curry.
One of four players in NBA history to record at least 40 points in at least two games in a single NBA Finals series.
Includes Michael Jordan, Allen Iverson, and Lebron James.
One of five players in NBA history to record at least 30 points, 10 rebounds, and 5 assists in an NBA Finals clinching game.[4]
Includes John Havlicek, Magic Johnson, James Worthy, and Hakeem Olajuwon.
Miami Heat franchise records[edit]
Statistics accurate as of the conclusion of games on February 8, 2015

Games played, career: 754
Minutes, career: 27,460
Points, career: 19,254
Field goals made, career: 6,567
Field goal attempts, career: 13,350
Free throws made, career: 4,732
Free throw attempts, career: 6,192
Assists, career: 4,489
Steals, career: 1,300
Steals per game, career: 1.7
Turnovers, career: 2,587
Points per game, season: 30.2 (2008-2009)
Steals per game, season: 2.2 (2008-2009)[5]
College[edit]
Conference USA Player of the Year: 2003
Consensus First Team All-American: 2003
United States National Team[edit]
2x Olympic medalist:
Gold: 2008
Bronze: 2004
FIBA World Championship medalist:
Bronze: 2006
Other[edit]
Best NBA Player ESPY Award: 2006
Ranked as one of the top 10 shooting guards in NBA history by Fox Sports[6]

Gonna guess Butler's list is much much smaller.

 

[The Hawk]

It was beyond a great performance. I'm not talking about merely the points. It was Jordanesque in its mentality. If someone legitimately pissed Jordan off, he was going to come at you, and at you, and at you. He was going to humiliate you for the entire game.

Carroll, one of the best perimeter defenders in the game, gave Jimmy a shot in the mouth, requiring a stitch. A pissed off Jimmy came at Carroll, not just a bit, but for the remainder of the game. He faced him up, posted him up, crossed him up. Played through him, around him (with both hands). Took him off glass etc etc. I don't think there was a single way in which Jimmy didn't abuse Carroll in today's game. He left no rock for Carroll to hind under. He beat him like a rented mule.

That was Jordanesque.

But being able to do that at will isn't "it" apparently.

That was a great post

 

[RoseMVP1]

I understand people getting excited about Jimmy being a great player but Jesus, man, D.Wade won a finals MVP and straight up dominated when the heat won that championship

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The officials played a big part in that.