Jordan Howard with three touchdowns against Green Bay

didshereallysaythat

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I dint mention RAVENS because I thought RAVENS was too obvious and dint want to presume you were a FOOTBALL R-TARD

Thanks.
I like how you always end every reply with a "thanks". You are like that passive aggressive corporate employee that everyone makes fun of behind their back for being a dick.
 

bamainatlanta

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DO YOU HAVE A LINK TO SOME OF “THE NFL’S MOST SUCCESSFUL TEAMS”. I WOULD SAY THE PATRIOTS, CHIEFS, SAINTS, AND RAMS ARE THE MOST SUCCESSFUL TEAMS IN THE NFL RIGHT NOW. NONE OF THEM RUN A FOXBALL OFFENSE THAT HOWARD CAN PRODUCE IN.

THANKS.

I'm sure he'd get carries in NE. As long as he didn't fumble.
 

Bearfanuk

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Any other team would be laughing about how they traded away a player who just gashed their rivals...agent Howard if you were. No not some of our fan base...instead we get angry as to why we don’t still have him despite knowing he isn’t a fit in what Nagy is trying to do.
 

ijustposthere

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Good for them. Unfortunately we were not using Howard as a role player as seen by the fact that he had the 6th most carries in the NFL. He was the feature back, sucked donkey dick and provided nothing of value to the offense, and then got replaced.
Which has nothing to do with what you said about him not having a role with the Eagles.
 

xer0h0ur

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Howard has

2.2 yds per carry against the Falcons for 18 yds on 8 carries
3.4 yds per cary against the Lions for 37 yds on 11 carries
5.8 yds per carry against the Packers for 87 yds on 15 carries


Packers D is OVER RATED

Not exactly. While their run defense may be suspect, their pass defense isn't.

By the way, Its been a while since I've seen a cornerback get taken to the woodshed as hard as #29 for the Eagles was last night. Holy shit did he get targeted and fucked over and over again.
 

ijustposthere

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Good to know our last season’s feature back, who can’t stop getting circle jerked by Bears fans, has the role of a back up on another team.
Again, nothing to do with your statement that he has no role on the Eagles.
 

Adipost

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Imagine if people recognized this last year when the same thing often happened to Howard.

The atrocious run blocking issues were actually recognized week in and week out last season. It was not until after the season that it was all just bizarrely forgotten and the blame got pinned on Howard exclusively.
 

remydat

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PFR has an extra 1 yard per rush (after contact) compared to PFF stats on Howard:

https://sports.yahoo.com/pro-football-focus-jordan-howard-203029839.html

Think it is the other way round. PFR (Pro Football Reference) has his yards before contact as 1.8 and after contact of 2.0. PFF has his yards before contact at 1.0 as this article notes and 2.7 after contact. So PFF is saying he got even less help from his OL than PFR is saying. In any event, the point here is the OL was bad.

As for Monty, PFR has his yards before contact at 2.6 and 1.4 after. PFF has it at 1.4 before and 2.6 after. So both PFR and PFF are saying that Monty has gotten more help from the OL this year than Howard did last year.
 

remydat

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Dummy I named the teams I thought, since he failed to name them, and he did not counter with any so presumably the list I came up with was fine. But by all means continue to vortex.

That doesn't mean you list are the only teams he was referring too dummy. He thanked my post where I suggested the Ravens.

The point is you have no authority to declare that only the teams you think are successful as by any rational and objective measure the Ravens have been successful this year.

I am. He was not good as a Chicago Bear at the end of his tenure and quite honestly sucked, and was therefore replaced. the skills he does bring to the table are skills that mirror more of a back up "role player" change of pace back more than a feature back.

By this logic, Mony must suck because his yards after contact is actually lower than Howard's last year.

ARE OTHER TEAMS LIKE THE PATRIOTS, RAMS, SAINTS, AND CHIEFS GOING TO BE RETCONNED ONTO THE LIST AS WELL??

I don't think any logical person assumes that someone is going to list out each and every team when they say successful. The question is can someone with a functioning brain determine if the Ravens qualify. I think having the No 1 offense and falling 5 points short of beating the undefeated Chiefs would lead anyone not being purposefully obtuse to conclude the Ravens are a successful team thus far this year.
 
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ZOMBIE@CTESPN

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Any other team would be laughing about how they traded away a player who just gashed their rivals...agent Howard if you were. No not some of our fan base...instead we get angry as to why we don’t still have him despite knowing he isn’t a fit in what Nagy is trying to do.

and the coach got more of “his guys” to run this gimmick crap and the offense has regressed
 

remydat

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I just posted in a different thread, but Nagy was brought in to win football games. He's doing that the best way he knows how and often that asks certain positions to do certain things. If we can agree on that then based on last season it's clear that Howard's limitations just made him a non-fit. Does that mean Nagy should adjust what he feels is right? No. Does that mean Howard is a terrible football player across the board? No. It's just a non-fit.

Prior to Nagy, I always heard around here how good coaches like a Bellichek can fit their scheme to the talent they have. Now with Nagy all of a sudden its the players have to fit his scheme perfectly.

The fact is there is no logical reason why Nagy couldn't use Howard like the Eagles use Howard or the Pats use Michel. It is just the case that Nagy chose not to which is his right as coach. Just as fans have a right to evaluate whether that choice was the right one. If the offense took off with Monty then Nagy would most certainly have gotten praise. Well the offense looked to have regressed so he deserves the criticism.
 

remydat

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The atrocious run blocking issues were actually recognized week in and week out last season. It was not until after the season that it was all just bizarrely forgotten and the blame got pinned on Howard exclusively.

Yeah basically there are a contingent of fans who the minute it was clear Nagy might move on started the scapegoating of Howard as if he was the principal reason for the OL woes.

Meanwhile, Mony has a worse yards after contact that Howard did last year but someone he is the next great Bears RB. Mind you I think Monty will be good but not sure why people feel the need to shit on Howard as a means to elevate Monty as if Howard had such superior blocking. Damn near every metric I look at from PFR, PFF and Football Outsiders tells me the OL was just as bad if not worse last year.
 

didshereallysaythat

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Prior to Nagy, I always heard around here how good coaches like a Bellichek can fit their scheme to the talent they have. Now with Nagy all of a sudden its the players have to fit his scheme perfectly.

The fact is there is no logical reason why Nagy couldn't use Howard like the Eagles use Howard or the Pats use Michel. It is just the case that Nagy chose not to which is his right as coach. Just as fans have a right to evaluate whether that choice was the right one. If the offense took off with Monty then Nagy would most certainly have gotten praise. Well the offense looked to have regressed so he deserves the criticism.
No one is going to argue that Nagy is as good of a coach as Peterson is from a play calling and scheme perspective, Peterson is one of the best in the NFL. Nagy is still trying to figure things out. That's not to say I think Nagy is bad... he is better than what we used to have by a long shot.
 

cd35

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I feel bad for Howard's treatment here. I think I saw a stat saying in his time here he was the 3rd most productive back in the league. Which is pretty good on some not good offenses.

I also feel bad bc I benched him in one of my leagues the last second. Son of a bitch. ha
 

Les Grossman

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It wasn't Howards ability to run......Green Bay was getting destryed by the Eagles Oline....there were a lot of wham blocks that were opening up gaping holes....

Nagy fucked up by not committing to the running game against GB....

GB is allowing 5.8 yards a carry after the Bears game
The worst part of of Nagy not running ball was how obvious it was to do so. Never mind that the QB was struggling, but the base GB defense was asking to be run on. They had extra DBs in on their base defense and were playing the pass the whole time.

The sad thing is, the Bears OL probably couldn’t make any running lanes even with the above.
 

Pegger

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Prior to Nagy, I always heard around here how good coaches like a Bellichek can fit their scheme to the talent they have. Now with Nagy all of a sudden its the players have to fit his scheme perfectly.

The fact is there is no logical reason why Nagy couldn't use Howard like the Eagles use Howard or the Pats use Michel. It is just the case that Nagy chose not to which is his right as coach. Just as fans have a right to evaluate whether that choice was the right one. If the offense took off with Monty then Nagy would most certainly have gotten praise. Well the offense looked to have regressed so he deserves the criticism.
There have been players that don't fit all schemes. Chad 'Ochocinco' Johnson was a flop in NE. Looking at my Eagles outside of a great couple playoff games Blount wasn't that good. AP did fail in New Orleans. Bringing it back to Chicago, Greg Olsen just was a complete non fit for a Mike Matz scheme.

These things happen. Some good players just don't fit certain schemes. Nagy tried to fit Howard in last year and the results were what they were. There will be some sour grapes when the player does well after moving on, but it was not personal and some players just need a certain structure to succeed.
 

remydat

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There have been players that don't fit all schemes. Chad 'Ochocinco' Johnson was a flop in NE. Looking at my Eagles outside of a great couple playoff games Blount wasn't that good. AP did fail in New Orleans. Bringing it back to Chicago, Greg Olsen just was a complete non fit for a Mike Matz scheme.

These things happen. Some good players just don't fit certain schemes. Nagy tried to fit Howard in last year and the results were what they were. There will be some sour grapes when the player does well after moving on, but it was not personal and some players just need a certain structure to succeed.

There is no real evidence Howard doesn't fit the scheme though. Yes Nagy prefers more versatile backs but that is a preference not a necessity. The point here is the Reid/Pederson/Scheme can work with a traditional back provided there is a back that is versatile on the roster. Hence why Pederson paired his more versatile backs with a guy like Blount. Hence why a team that passes as much as the Pats and who have James White and Rex Burkhead also have Sonny Michel. There is nothing special about Nagy's scheme that requires 100% of the snaps to go to versatile backs.

The reason Howard's results were poor last year is the same reason Monty's results have been underwhelming this year. The OL sucks. That is what all the data from three independent sites suggest. So unless there is some conspiracy between FO, PFF, and PFR not sure why people are fixated with blaming Howard for something that independent data is saying is the fault of the OL.

The easiest way to see this is in all the talk from people about how easy Howard used to fall down. They take one or two memorable examples of Howard falling down and create an entire narrative out of it. Meanwhile the data says Howard gained more yards after contact than the great Monty as people gush about Monty's ability to miss tackles. It is insane to me how perception can so easily overcome reality.
 

remydat

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No one is going to argue that Nagy is as good of a coach as Peterson is from a play calling and scheme perspective, Peterson is one of the best in the NFL. Nagy is still trying to figure things out. That's not to say I think Nagy is bad... he is better than what we used to have by a long shot.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that a guy like Howard can be useful. It is just a question of whether you have the creativity to use him. For all is creativity and gadgets it is quite clear that Nagy has problems in the run game.

We all have commented on his misuse of personnel thus far this season but yet the same people complaining about how stupid it is that he was using Davis more than Monty or not using Cohen enough somehow think that last year none of the problems with Howard stem from the OL or Nagy.

This is the same guy that did a poor job using Hunt when it mattered so much so that Bears homers were trying to pin it on Reid. The reality is Nagy treats the run game like an afterthought. That is his biggest deficiency as a coach. Until he addresses that, the offense will continue to be a problem IMO.
 

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