Keto and Intermittent Fasting

TL1961

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If that was true, there would be no need for these sites selling fake cookies and donuts to make people satisfy their cravings. 100s of reviews.

https://www.paleobakehouse.com/collections/bundles/products/keto-cookie-and-donut-bundle

And if it were true, it would be working. People wouldn't be getting fatter. Yet, we both know that's not true.

Not true.

First, you claim "Keto has been the #1 fad diet for years" and "obesity rates keep going up", but we have no idea if you are comparing similar time periods. Those statements are both just thrown out there with no details.

Secondly, obesity rates go up in the US all the time. If, say 5% of Americans are trying Keto (or 10%, or 15%, or whatever), there are a lot of people who aren't. So unless obesity rates are going up while >50% are doing Keto, those generalized stats you cite mean nothing.

Why do they sell "fake cookies"? The same reason they sell a lot of useless unnecessary crap: Someone will buy it. The fact that some percentage of dieters will buy that crap doesn't mean the majority do. Or that they are necessary in any way. Just because a diet is popular does not mean everyone who thinks they are following it actually is. Many people who are "addicted" to sweets will buy stuff like this before even starting Keto because they are ignorant and don't know cravings will go away.

I like sweets. On Keto have very very few cravings. And the last thing I will eat on a diet is a fake version of something I like (I admit I have tried "fake pizza" a couple times, but that is for toppings as much as anything. And it isn't so good I will keep doing it.)

I have a sister who has always struggled with weight. She is always buying low-fat, or Skinny Cow versions of shit. But never, ever following any plan at all. So she constantly has snacks, often substituting the "healthier" version. But she never gets to a point where she doesn't want that crap, and when she does have it, she has no limit. This is how many people diet, and they are the ones who will make fake cookies. But that is out of ignorance.

Rather than shout down a diet you have no experience with - like denying climate change or shouting at clouds - why not try it for two or three weeks and see for yourself?

And, also, realize that people eating these fake cookies and donuts may not be doing anything else at all. They just simply assume it's "less bad' for them. Read reviews of pills that create Ketones - people review them, claim to be losing weight, and proudly proclaim they haven't changed what they eat! Many people simply want a miracle without changing a thing.
 

Novak

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You're wasting your time TL.

Didshe, I'm willing to give you real tips, not ones that tell you to make fake cookies with fake sugar or to eat Atkins TV dinners.

You'd rather skirt and post articles to misguided recipes.

It is what it is, just own your inexperience, **** off instead of being a coward because God forbid you eat a bunless burger.
 
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didshereallysaythat

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Yeah, because everyone who tries keto does it correctly right?

Sugar alcohols are a whole other argument. In fact, I was considering making a thread on this very subject because of this common misconception.

As to your 2nd point, I'm not sure what the **** you're even saying. I could say "If the classic "calorie in calorie out" diet was working, people wouldn't be getting fatter" but that would be Special person.

If you're doing a true ketogenic diet, you don't eat garbage fake cookies and donuts. Try it for a month. Report back. Don't be a coward. back your shit up.

It's not Special person, no matter what "diet" you do, you have to stick to it so it's no longer a diet. The keto diet is one of the least compliant diets out there.

I actually did a bit of the low carb thing in the past and didn't like it. Had no energy and couldn't lift as much. Been around 12% body fat for a while now for maintenance. Dropped to single digits by carb cycling. Low carbs on pump days and high carbs on power days. Hypertrophy days have medium carbs. Single digits though is hard to maintain. No one needs it either unless they are competing or a professional model.
 

didshereallysaythat

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Not true.

First, you claim "Keto has been the #1 fad diet for years" and "obesity rates keep going up", but we have no idea if you are comparing similar time periods. Those statements are both just thrown out there with no details.

Secondly, obesity rates go up in the US all the time. If, say 5% of Americans are trying Keto (or 10%, or 15%, or whatever), there are a lot of people who aren't. So unless obesity rates are going up while >50% are doing Keto, those generalized stats you cite mean nothing.

Why do they sell "fake cookies"? The same reason they sell a lot of useless unnecessary crap: Someone will buy it. The fact that some percentage of dieters will buy that crap doesn't mean the majority do. Or that they are necessary in any way. Just because a diet is popular does not mean everyone who thinks they are following it actually is. Many people who are "addicted" to sweets will buy stuff like this before even starting Keto because they are ignorant and don't know cravings will go away.

I like sweets. On Keto have very very few cravings. And the last thing I will eat on a diet is a fake version of something I like (I admit I have tried "fake pizza" a couple times, but that is for toppings as much as anything. And it isn't so good I will keep doing it.)

I have a sister who has always struggled with weight. She is always buying low-fat, or Skinny Cow versions of shit. But never, ever following any plan at all. So she constantly has snacks, often substituting the "healthier" version. But she never gets to a point where she doesn't want that crap, and when she does have it, she has no limit. This is how many people diet, and they are the ones who will make fake cookies. But that is out of ignorance.

Rather than shout down a diet you have no experience with - like denying climate change or shouting at clouds - why not try it for two or three weeks and see for yourself?

And, also, realize that people eating these fake cookies and donuts may not be doing anything else at all. They just simply assume it's "less bad' for them. Read reviews of pills that create Ketones - people review them, claim to be losing weight, and proudly proclaim they haven't changed what they eat! Many people simply want a miracle without changing a thing.

Instead of trying to convince me... someone who is lean... why don't you try and convince your sister who is obese?
 

Novak

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I actually did a bit of the low carb thing in the past and didn't like it.

Stopped reading here.

Low carb =/= Keto

Allow your body to reach a ketogenic state. Mantain it for a week or 2. Report back.

Otherwise, you're speaking from complete ignorance. I would advise anyone here to ignore basically anything you've had to say thus far.

I've tried calorie in calorie out, you haven't tried keto. Shut up coward.
 

TL1961

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Many, many people exercise and are not losing weight.

Many people think they are dieting, but sabotage themselves with "cheat meals", ignorance, etc. (I am not claiming nobody should ever have a meal that goes off diet. I am suggesting many people do it way too often.) People will decide to do Atkins, South Beach, Keto, etc. without realizing all the places they can be consuming carbs. They will snack on nuts instead of chocolate, or something like that. Or decide to go on a low carb diet, while still consuming low fat (high carb) salad dressing, simply out of habit.

Not everyone who claims to be dieting does it according to a plan or with knowledge of what they are doing.
 

TL1961

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Instead of trying to convince me... someone who is lean... why don't you try and convince your sister who is obese?

She is a skeptic of any diet that is popular and has success for some reason. She, like you, always had something negative to say about low carb diets, in spite of not having tried them, and in spite of the fact I had great success on them right in front of her eyes.

This past fall, her daughter lost 30 or so, and son-in-law lost 50. They have never looked better. My sister actually made a comment that "maybe" she'd try Keto. I haven't asked her, and I will be thrilled to learn she is on it and losing. But I wouldn't bet on it.

I don't know why you, Mr. Lean (who has tried low carb for some reason) have to be condescending when discussing anyone dieting. I mention she has struggled with weight, you describe her as obese. I am not at all surprised.

So, I will ask this - if you are lean, and have no need to diet, what is it that prompts you to first join into a discussion among people on the Keto (or any) diet? Do you honestly feel better telling strangers you don't need to lose weight? Wow.
 

didshereallysaythat

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Stopped reading here.

Low carb =/= Keto

Allow your body to reach a ketogenic state. Mantain it for a week or 2. Report back.

Otherwise, you're speaking from complete ignorance. I would advise anyone here to ignore basically anything you've had to say thus far.

I've tried calorie in calorie out, you haven't tried keto. Shut up coward.

I was in veto according to the strips...

So what is your story? You tried calories in and calories out? What was your starting weight and body fat percentage? Did you calculate your TDEE? Did you track your calories and compare to your expected expenditure? Did you measure your weight, body fat percentages and measurements on a weekly basis? What was your workout regime? Were you eating whole foods? Were you eating enough protein? If you stopped getting results, what changes did you make? How long did you stick to your plan? What was your ending weight? What was your ending body fat percentage?
 

didshereallysaythat

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Many, many people exercise and are not losing weight.

Many people think they are dieting, but sabotage themselves with "cheat meals", ignorance, etc. (I am not claiming nobody should ever have a meal that goes off diet. I am suggesting many people do it way too often.) People will decide to do Atkins, South Beach, Keto, etc. without realizing all the places they can be consuming carbs. They will snack on nuts instead of chocolate, or something like that. Or decide to go on a low carb diet, while still consuming low fat (high carb) salad dressing, simply out of habit.

Not everyone who claims to be dieting does it according to a plan or with knowledge of what they are doing.

Don't disagree with any of that.
 

didshereallysaythat

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She is a skeptic of any diet that is popular and has success for some reason. She, like you, always had something negative to say about low carb diets, in spite of not having tried them, and in spite of the fact I had great success on them right in front of her eyes.

This past fall, her daughter lost 30 or so, and son-in-law lost 50. They have never looked better. My sister actually made a comment that "maybe" she'd try Keto. I haven't asked her, and I will be thrilled to learn she is on it and losing. But I wouldn't bet on it.

(I do how you, Mr. Lean (who has tried low carb for some reason) have to be condescending when discussing anyone dieting. I mention she has struggled with weight, you describe her as obese. I am not at all surprised.

So, I will ask this - if you are lean, and have no need to diet, what is it that prompts you to first join into a discussion among people on the Keto (or any) diet? Do you honestly feel better telling strangers you don't need to lose weight? Wow.

I am not any meaner than Novak. It's a give and take. If you go all the way back to my first post in this very thread, I said that people need to do what works for them. That could be keto if that's what works for them. I know for a fact though that calories do matter. And I am not even going to mention this anymore starting now because it's fucking idiotic. It's not an opinion. It's proven. If you eat too many calories of ANYTHING, you will gain fat. Yes, different foods are harder to overeat.

Why am I here if what I am doing is working for me? Because I don't want people to think they can eat as much as they want of fats and protein on keto and they will automatically lose weight. Why do you need to defend keto if it works for you?
 

Novak

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I was in veto according to the strips...

So what is your story? You tried calories in and calories out?
Yes

What was your starting weight and body fat percentage?

I was 6'5 240lbs 22% body fat

Did you calculate your TDEE? Did you track your calories and compare to your expected expenditure?

TDEE of 2600 calories, fairly accurate.

Did you measure your weight, body fat percentages and measurements on a weekly basis? What was your workout regime?

Yes. Light cardio for warmups and cooldowns with moderate lifting inbetween.

Were you eating whole foods?

Lmfao, you crack me up.

Were you eating enough protein?

Of course, wtf kinda question is that.

If you stopped getting results, what changes did you make? How long did you stick to your plan? What was your ending weight? What was your ending body fat percentage?

I didnt "stop getting results", i felt like shit as a grown adult male. I was craving everything i couldn't or shouldn't eat. My results were minuscule.

In comparison on keto, I:

1) don't crave the garbage you say "good luck never eating..." ( a clear sign you've never even tried a true keto lifestyle)
2) have increasingly more energy throughout the day
3) can workout way more, and for way longer without feeling fatigued

I have dropped to a 32 inch waist and a body fat percentage of 16%. I feel better than I did in highschool as a 3 sport athlete. I have consistent energy levels all throughout the day. I have 100% avoided any diabetes concerns that run extensively through my family. Most of all, I am happy.
 

Warrior Spirit

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I love how you say that it's not too hard for people to lift weights....... YET, it's so fucking east to not eat sugar and refined carbs!!! Like are you fucking kidding me? Pizza is like half of the entire country's favorite food. A lot of people have a hard enough time going without ice cream in a day, let alone giving it up for extended periods of time.
Incredibly easy to avoid sugar. Just research the alternatives like stevia, monk fruit, erythritol etc. Since you're eating mostly fat and protein, you won't find much you'd even need or want to add sugar to. Pizza is overrated and there's already low carb options for pizza available as there is with ice cream.

What we're beginning to see now is more and more people trying to avoid sugar and that's creating a demand for low sugar/low carb foods that is slowly being met.

I never denied that hormones play a role. They do. And some people are drawn a worse deck than others and have to work a lot harder to maintain their weight.
The biggest problem, by far, is not that some people have drawn a worse deck but that the same information they've been given over and over for decades about calorie in/calories out and keep moving is not only wrong but sets them up for failure time and again. Restrict calories, workout more, lose weight, gain back, wreck metabolism, restrict more calories, work out harder, lose more weight, gain more weight, wreck metabolism more....

Look, the keto diet is the number 1 trending diet. More people are on it than any other diet. And its been that way for several years now. Yet, obesity rates keep going up.
Keto is the # 1 trending diet? You sure about that? Haha. I've seen nothing and nobody that made that claim. More people on it than any other diet? That is pure hogwash. I'd bet the farm that's not true. Don't know where you get that from. It always gets very negative press from the msm.

I just mentioned a page or 2 ago how it was named one of the very worst diets of 2018. Weight Watchers was named the #1 diet to lose weight, you know that diet company that's been around for half a century and totally relies on repeat customers who fail over and over again?
Just because you found a solution to your problems, doesn't mean that it will work for everyone.
Why won't it work for everybody? What makes my body different than their's? We were all built the same way. I've been saying keto and IF just happen to encourage the body to do exactly what it was always meant to do. Working with the way your body was designed to work has got to be a ton better than working against it. I didn't even say one had to do keto to get the positive effects. You could do IF alone, which totally works in compliance with the Feast/Fast way the body was meant to work, and have the same effects albeit at a slower rate cause Keto just amplifies it.

The major problem (despite what you say about it being easy to maintain) it that people can't comply to it. It's too damn restrictive and the number of people that fail and give up on it is high.
Don't know where you get this failure rate from. Even if some do start and give up cause they're too weak, that's no fault of the diet but you are seriously overestimating how many people actually do Keto. It is too extreme for most, so that fact and the fact it gets negative press is enough to keep most away. More come on board as the many success stories are heard but you are way off when you say most, or even anything close to most, are on Keto.[/QUOTE]
And it acts as a double whammy because when you reduce your net carbs to practically nothing, and then give up and take in loads and loads, you put on fat at an faster rate than someone that dieted down with higher carbs and stopped their diet. The studies show this.
Actually, studies show the complete opposite, as I already alluded to. They show people on low carb diets lose 3 times more weight than those on low fat diets. There is no more nutrient dense macro than fat, why do you think 1 gram of fat equals more calories than 1 gram of protein and 1 gram of carbs put together?

Keto also allow more than 20 grams net carbs. It allows for 5% carbs total which, taking in ~ 3000 calories would mean almost twice as many as 20g. How much carbs do you think your body requires? I know it requires fat. I know it requires Protein. Don't think it even requires carbs damn near at all as it's capable of making glucose on its own. But let's stick with this anyway. Green leafy vegetables are very low in net carbs and I eat them almost every day and I never just have 1 serving. It's always about 3 or 4 servings and that even leaves plenty of room for an avocado that's much more nutrient dense than your more popular sugar filled fruits like bananas and apples. Hell, I could even legit fit in half a sweet potato most days even though it's not considered keto. So what better carbs do you think you're getting that I'm not while typical peeps take in over 1000 calories in pizza, chips, donuts, cereal, bread, sugary drinks and all that other sugar filled crap? I don't see where I'm missing out on something that would be beneficial to my body. Sugar is what makes people fat and the worst kind of sugar for weight gain, fructose, is in 75% of packaged goods in the grocery store. It's a bad thing I miss out on that? I don't think so.
 

TL1961

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I am not any meaner than Novak. It's a give and take. If you go all the way back to my first post in this very thread, I said that people need to do what works for them. That could be keto if that's what works for them. I know for a fact though that calories do matter. And I am not even going to mention this anymore starting now because it's fucking idiotic. It's not an opinion. It's proven. If you eat too many calories of ANYTHING, you will gain fat. Yes, different foods are harder to overeat.

Why am I here if what I am doing is working for me? Because I don't want people to think they can eat as much as they want of fats and protein on keto and they will automatically lose weight. Why do you need to defend keto if it works for you?

Seriously? You keep criticizing it, and someone with experience with it working defends it, and you're going to act like that is odd?

As for the calorie thing, the 100th time around.......the whole point is that calories from carbs and calories from fat are not the same. Simply referring to calories is ignorant. But I am not going any further.
 

Novak

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Why do you need to defend keto if it works for you?

Because there's soooo many misconceptions, at no fault of your own. These are things that were taught to us by a fraudulent system backed by many industries that garnered many monetary gains by feeding us literal bullshit. Step back and reconfigure for a minute, you might learn something.
 

didshereallysaythat

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Yes



I was 6'5 240lbs 22% body fat



TDEE of 2600 calories, fairly accurate.



Yes. Light cardio for warmups and cooldowns with moderate lifting inbetween.



Lmfao, you crack me up.



Of course, wtf kinda question is that.



I didnt "stop getting results", i felt like shit as a grown adult male. I was craving everything i couldn't or shouldn't eat. My results were minuscule.

In comparison on keto, I:

1) don't crave the garbage you say "good luck never eating..." ( a clear sign you've never even tried a true keto lifestyle)
2) have increasingly more energy throughout the day
3) can workout way more, and for way longer without feeling fatigued

I have dropped to a 32 inch waist and a body fat percentage of 16%. I feel better than I did in highschool as a 3 sport athlete. I have consistent energy levels all throughout the day. I have 100% avoided any diabetes concerns that run extensively through my family. Most of all, I am happy.

Congrats.
 

didshereallysaythat

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You guys are missing the point. So I will give in and say what you want me to. I think Spartan, Novak and TL need to go do seminars. Help the common people lose weight with your energy and motivation about this one diet that if you stick to for 2 weeks will be the easiest thing in the world to lose weight and keep it off forever. With enough people like you, we should have obesity levels around Japan in 5 years.

Kudos fellas.
 

Warrior Spirit

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You guys are missing the point. So I will give in and say what you want me to. I think Spartan, Novak and TL need to go do seminars. Help the common people lose weight with your energy and motivation about this one diet that if you stick to for 2 weeks will be the easiest thing in the world to lose weight and keep it off forever. With enough people like you, we should have obesity levels around Japan in 5 years.

Kudos fellas.
You don't even have an answer to what great nutritious carbs you're getting that I'm not? Damn, you like a whipped puppy tucking his tail. Sorry I had to prove you wrong on everything but it's not my fault you were that wrong. Research more and support these crazy Special person claims, such as more people being on a keto diet than any other diet, with some links. It would sure as hell shock the shit out of me if you could.
 

dennehy

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I've done keto for the last 5 months with a couple breaks for holidays.

It worked well at first, but I kinda peaked. Probably lost 12-15 lbs total. I am a big guy 6'4 255, played college football freshman year at about 225, 42 years old now and I run and or lift 4-5 times per week.

The only carbs I ate: one carrot per day; about 1.5 oz milk, a few ounces of raw cauliflower; a keto bar with 2 g carbs; whatever veggie I had with dinner, usually salad, cabbage, or brussel sprouts. Other than that eggs, meat, peanuts, pork rinds. I was around 30-40 net carbs a day, without cheating at all. Zero beer, zero sugar, zero grains.

For some reason I just didn't feel like it was going to work for me long term. I'm going to try calorie counting and see if that works at all.
 

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