Kevin Barkley vs Charles Durant thread formerly AtL

[remydat]

So the actual historical context is irrelevant...good to know going forward. I guess I was under the impression that the facts were relevant.

It's irrelevant to my point about him being a hypocrite because my point about him being a hypocrite is that he demanded a trade to go play with superstars. The fact they were no longer in their primes would be more relevant to me if it meant they were no longer superstars but they still were. Not sure why this is confusing.

We aren't debating what Barkley said about Durant, we are debating what you said about Barkley. We are all in agreement about what Barkley said.

This still makes no sense. What I said about Barkley is dependent upon his comments about Durant. I called Barkley a hypocrite and I explained why? He left to play with 2 superstars. I explained why I disagree with the reasoning that the timing of his departure is relevant so not sure what confuses you.

If Barkley had never demanded to be traded to a team with two of the top 50 players in NBA history at a time when they were still playing at an elite level then he wouldn't be a hypocrite. The reality is that he did.

 

[FirstTimer]

Jordan and Pippen in 95-96 certainly were in their prime dude.

LOL no they weren't. Jordan and Pippen's primes were both around the 91-93 area. Pippen's maybe more into 94 a bit.

I'd say Jordan's prime was 89-93.

Pippen's was 91-94.

In either case...that's not the point of this.

 

[didshereallysaythat]

LOL no they weren't. Jordan and Pippen's primes were both around the 91-93 area. Pippen's maybe more into 94 a bit.

Both of their prime's were a long time. Jordan's scoring went down a few points from the late 80s to the early 90s when Pippen broke out but he never really had a drop off in play until after his last game as a Bull. His game evolved as he got older by becoming smarter and developing his classic fadeaway.

 

[FirstTimer]

Both of their prime's were a long time. Jordan's scoring went down a few points from the late 80s to the early 90s when Pippen broke out but he never really had a drop off in play until after his last game as a Bull. His game evolved as he got older by becoming smarter and developing his classic fadeaway.

That's great and really says and proves nothing beyond Jordan learned a fade away. Jordan's peak efficiency and dominance was in the time span I described. It was both his athletic and statistical prime. Numbers and performance bear this out.

In either case, this really isn't the point. I'm done diving into some alternate remy dimension. If you want to discuss what years were Jordan's prime, and get dismantled in regards to it, start a new thread.

 

[didshereallysaythat]

That's great and really says and proves nothing beyond Jordan learned a fade away. Jordan's peak efficiency and dominance was in the time span I described. It was both his athletic and statistical prime. Numbers and performance bear this out.

In either case, this really isn't the point. I'm done diving into some alternate remy dimension. If you want to discuss what years were Jordan's prime, and get dismantled in regards to it, start a new thread.

His absolute PEAK stat wise was probably late 80s. But he was still without a shadow of a doubt, the best player in the NBA during the 2nd 3 peat. Who ever said: "the Bulls win another championship despite Jordan and Pippen not being in their primes"... ?

Being in ones prime means that the player is still playing at an elite level. It doesn't have to mean only the very best of the best year. I am sorry if that is not the point you were trying to make to Remy, but it's a silly thing to say.

 

[FirstTimer]

But he was still without a shadow of a doubt, the best player in the NBA during the 2nd 3 peat.

Ok but it wasn't his peak.

That's the entire point.

That's it.

Being in ones prime means that the player is still playing at an elite level.

No, that's not what it means.

A players prime literally means his "peak".

Jordan's peak was not 95-98. His prime was not 95-98.

I have zero idea how you can't understand simple concepts.

It doesn't have to mean only the very best of the best year.

I didn't name a single year so this statement makes no sense and I'm convinced you can't read.

 

[didshereallysaythat]

Then by that logic, his prime would be 87-90.

 

[didshereallysaythat]

Aaron Rodgers is no longer in his prime with that logic.

 

[didshereallysaythat]

Sorry, in my book, if someone is the best player in the NBA, and are winning MVPs in the regular season and the Finals, they are still in their prime.

Common sense.

 

[FirstTimer]

Then by that logic, his prime would be 87-90.

....I placed his prime from around 89-93. If you want to expand it to 87-93 go for it.

Aaron Rodgers is no longer in his prime with that logic.

What the hell are you talking about?

Rodgers prime could very well be over. We don't know that. We can evaluate that after he retires.

Jordan is retired so we can evaluate his.


Are you drunk already?

Sorry, in my book, if someone is the best player in the NBA, and are winning MVPs in the regular season and the Finals, they are still in their prime.

.

Or they were just so far above the rest of the NBA in their actual prime that they can be not as good as they once were but still the best, even if they aren't at their peak.

 

[remydat]

Then by that logic, his prime would be 87-90.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html

Yep his best statistical years by just about any measure were 87-90.

 

[SilenceS]

That is just bullshit. Barkley was traded and is no way a hypocrite. He is not always right in what he has done or said but he is nothing but honest in his views. And he is 100% correct in his assessment of the bullshit going on in the NBA and they are killing the golden goose. Hell, they should probably cancel the regular season and go directly to the championship round. I even hear two numbnuts on a local radio station out here saying that how much fun it was going to be to see two teams roll over everyone in their conferences and be SUPER TEAMS. Well **** THIS. I suggest that fans not go to their local teams games. Just find something else to do. THe tickets are highly priced and you team doesn't have a chance to win so **** it. Teach these assholes a lesson.

How would you see Rondo attack the basket then?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[FirstTimer]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html

Yep his best statistical years by just about any measure were 87-90.

Rolling in playoff performances as well expands it to 1993. Which was the point....But hey, let's start a new thread on it.

 

[didshereallysaythat]

....I placed his prime from around 89-93. If you want to expand it to 87-93 go for it.

Let's just say it was 87 to 98. When you are so fucking good during all of that, just expand it that far.

 

[remydat]

Rolling in playoff performances as well expands it to 1993. Which was the point....But hey, let's start a new thread on it.

No point. Simply put, we won't agree on what Prime means so no point starting a whole thread over it. I don't really consider the drop off post 93 to be substantial enough to say he wasn't in his prime. I mean his PER in 1995-96 was 29.4 which was higher than his PER in 91-92 and comparable to his PER in 93 of 29.7. So where exactly is the drop off to say he is no longer in his prime? He dropped to 27.8 and 25.2 in 97 and 98 but then his playoff runs were still epic. So I don't see a guy that is no longer in his Prime. I see a guy who maybe simply saved himself a bit more in the regular season to preserve his body as he got older.

So we'd just do the usual dance going back and forth arguing over definitions of a term that's subjective in the first place.

 

[stevethacreator]

...I think we're missing the point that Barkley didn't go to a Phoenix team that had literally three all-stars. These KD is literally still in his twenties, isn't going to retire anytime soon, and he's chasing after a championship ring. Barkley was winding down in his career...those correlations are not the same. KD's got enough basketball in him where he could've continued to play in OKC, build, and go to the WCF's again. But now, he's basically helped in pressing the big red button in OKC and now Russ is going into free agency after the 2016-17 season. So now a team that took 9 years to build is being torn down from the foundation.

 

[stevethacreator]

Correction, Barkley didn't go to a team that had a two-time MVP and current scoring champ, the former MVP and 4-time scoring champ (KD), and a runner up in the MVP race (Draymond).

 

[remydat]

Once again, KD gave OKC 9 years. The fact he is 27 is a function of him entering the league so young. Most vets after 9 years are going to feel the itch and pressure to get it done because a decade is a long time to be in the NBA without winning.

And Hakeem and Drexler's accolades match up with the Warriors stars quite easily. They were 2 of the 50 greatest players in NBA history at and Hakeem was still MVP caliber having just won MVP in 1995 while Drexler was still one of the best two guards in the NBA.

So was it exactly the same? No. Was it similar enough in the sense Barkley teamed up with 2 of the greatest players in NBA history to chase a championship? Yes.

If you want to give him a pass because he was older then go ahead. I dont. I mean it's dumb. Once you decide to chase a championship you go to the team that gives you the best chance. For Barkley that was the Rockets and for Durant it was GS.

 

[Scoot26]

Makes sense. When Barkley left the Suns after the 1995-96 season, the Bulls had gone 72-10 and won their 4th title. Instead of going to the Bulls, Barkley went to the team that gave him the best chance to win a title, which were the 48-34 Rockets.

Lets say you are an NBA basketball player with a time machine, and you are given the option of playing for one of these three teams:

1) Team with greatest player of all-time (96 Bulls)
2) Team with greatest record of all-time (16 Warriors)
3) Team with 34-year old Clyde Drexler


Once again, I cannot adequately express how amazed I am at your inability to grasp this topic.

Well, who's to say Barkley didn't call up Jordan and say "hey get jerry to trade for me."

To which Jordan just lol'd then hung up.

 

[Axl Rose]

Jeez yall are still arguing about Barkley's comments? Chuck isn't exactly a guy you take that seriously LOL