Kevin Barkley vs Charles Durant thread formerly AtL

[remydat]

No, Barkley has an issue with guys in their primes chasing championships.

Barkley was traded from a floundering Suns franchise to the Rockets at nearly 34 years old. He was joining Drexler and Hakeem who were both 34 as well and Houston was coming off a season where they didn't just set the NBA record for wins in a season.

Drexler retired a year later.
Olajuwon never started more than 50 games a year the rest of his career after 96-97 and was retired 5 years later.
Barkley retired 4 years later.

Barkley going to the Rockets is nothing like what has happened with James/Durant, unless you expect Durant, Curry, Thompson, and Green to all be retired in two to five seasons and the Warriors were a middling team in the West last year.

Barkley getting traded to the Rockets based on this offseason is most comparable to Wade coming to Chicago if ANY comparison is going to be made.

He didn't/should have had to make any distinction in his comments because people with a brain know the difference.

That is a distinction you are making. That is not a distinction Barkley himself made. As the below noted he demanded trades twice to improve his chances to win a championship and nowhere in the below does he claim his concerns are only around people moving in their prime.

"The best thing about it would be getting the chance to play with Hakeem Olajuwon and Clyde Drexler. We would be very formidable,"

He said the above a month that before being traded. He forced that trade to go play with fellow superstars.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/1...-thinks-stars-kevin-durant-cheating-get-title

 

[FirstTimer]

That is a distinction you are making.

No, it's a distinction reality is making.

That is not a distinction Barkley himself made.

Barkley doesn't need to make any distinction. His context is reality. He lived his life. We saw it occur. He knows what happened, when, how, and why. So does the rest of the world.

Why are you acting as though we aren't aware of the context of those trades and when they happened and what the situations ACTUALLY were?

You're maddeningly dumb.

He said the above a month that before being traded. He forced that trade to go play with fellow superstars.

AGAIN:



Barkley was traded from a floundering Suns franchise to the Rockets at nearly 34 years old. He was joining Drexler and Hakeem who were both 34 as well and Houston was coming off a season where they didn't just set the NBA record for wins in a season.

Drexler retired a year later.
Olajuwon never started more than 50 games a year the rest of his career after 96-97 and was retired 5 years later.
Barkley retired 4 years later.

Barkley going to the Rockets is nothing like what has happened with James/Durant, unless you expect Durant, Curry, Thompson, and Green to all be retired in two to five seasons and the Warriors were a middling team in the West last year.

 

[remydat]

This is stupid. People that are hypocrites also lived their lives in reality so the fact we know this doesn't make Barkley any less a hypocrite. Plenty of people making hypocritical statements and simply hope that no one points out their hypocrisy due to the the passage of time.

Further even if we accept this concept of he only meant it in their prime which again he never said, his comments are still dumb. The NBA is different. Most of these elite guys entered the league out of high school or after a year in college so their primes last longer than players like Barkely who spent 3 or 4 years in college.

Durant gave OKC 9 years which is longer than Barkley gave Philly before he demanded a trade. He's still in his prime because those 9 years began when he was 18 while Barkley didn't join the NBA until he was 21/22.

So what's the logic here? That guys coming into the league much younger and giving a franchise almost a decade of their career to a franchise can't jump ship to play with stars but Barkely can because he was older?

That basically penalizes Durant because he entered the league as a teenager and is entirely self serving Bullshit by Barkley.

Do you honestly think if Barkely entered the NBA at 18 and the after a decade wanted to leave his team, he would have said, "I can't go because Im still 28."

Like GTFOH. Durant paid his dues with OKC. I have no problem with a vet of almost 10 years chasing a championship and the fact he is still in his prime is simply because he entered so young. Guys like him and Lebron have already had pretty full NBA careers and have the mentality of vets despite their age. 10 year vets in the NBA just come a lot younger than they did when Barkley played.

 

[didshereallysaythat]

Like GTFOH. Durant paid his dues with OKC. I have no problem with a vet of almost 10 years chasing a championship and the fact he is still in his prime is simply because he entered so young. Guys like him and Lebron have already had pretty full NBA careers and have the mentality of vets despite their age. 10 year vets in the NBA just come a lot younger than they did when Barkley played.

I have no problem with it. He is free to do what he wants just like LeBron did. The league is also free to do all in their legal power to break them up.

 

[clonetrooper264]

I have no problem with it. He is free to do what he wants just like LeBron did. The league is also free to do all in their legal power to break them up.

The only way they can do that is to dramatically reduce the cap so the Warriors have to do what the Blackhawks do and sell off half their team after the season ends.

 

[FirstTimer]

This is stupid.

I agree. Your entire point is stupid.

People that are hypocrites also lived their lives in reality so the fact we know this doesn't make Barkley any less a hypocrite.

Your entire basis for Barkley being a hypocrite is him criticizing Kevin Durant and Lebron James for doing something he himself did.

Barkley didn't do what James and Durant did based on the reality and context of the situations, therefore Barkley is not a hypocrite.


You can't claim Barkley is a hypocrite, calling into evidence what he did and using his past against him, then when the ACTUAL context of the history and situations are brought up claim that we can't make those distinctions because Barkley didn't.

YOU brought Barkley's past into the equation by making claims about/against him, as such his entire history and actual life is now admissible to evaluate and in this case rebuke those claims.

No one with a brain expects Barkley to give a 15 page address on the issue citing differences in his situation. We saw it happen, we have the internet, we have data and the actual experience. Normal minded people can evaluate this pretty easily.

You, for some reason, have the cognitive ability of a three year old and aren't able to.

So yes, I agree, this(you) are stupid.

That basically penalizes Durant because he entered the league as a teenager and is entirely self serving Bullshit by Barkley.

No. Here's the actual situation(s)..again:

Barkley was traded from a floundering Suns franchise to the Rockets at nearly 34 years old. He was joining Drexler and Hakeem who were both 34 as well and Houston was coming off a season where they didn't just set the NBA record for wins in a season.

Drexler retired a year later.
Olajuwon never started more than 50 games a year the rest of his career after 96-97 and was retired 5 years later.
Barkley retired 4 years later.

Barkley going to the Rockets is nothing like what has happened with James/Durant, unless you expect Durant, Curry, Thompson, and Green to all be retired in two to five seasons and the Warriors were a middling team in the West last year.

Barkley getting traded to the Rockets based on this offseason is most comparable to Wade coming to Chicago if ANY comparison is going to be made.

He didn't/should have had to make any distinction in his comments because people with a brain know the difference.

The other trade you bring up he went to the Suns, who had no other super star players, much less the reigning two time MVP, they hadn't made it past the 2nd round the previous two years..one year falling ou tin the 1st round...much less back to back NBA Finals appearances including a win, on top of all this the 76ers were a train wreck at the time. Barkley was asking for a trade to go to a team where he could be THE guy.

His comments going back years are about other established franchise guys in their prime, going to other teams to team up with other superstars to take a step back and chase rings.

You're easily the worst poster in this entire community.

Congrats.

 

[FirstTimer]

I have no problem with it. He is free to do what he wants just like LeBron did. The league is also free to do all in their legal power to break them up.

The only way they can do that is to dramatically reduce the cap so the Warriors have to do what the Blackhawks do and sell off half their team after the season ends.

To be clear:
I have no issue with what Durant did either. I can understand why some people might but I personally don't.

Barkley isn't a hypocrite for taking issue with it though. That's it.

 

[remydat]

The only way they can do that is to dramatically reduce the cap so the Warriors have to do what the Blackhawks do and sell off half their team after the season ends.

This is the other reason why Barkley's comments are dumb. Part of the reason we probably never saw this in his era was that owners weren't willing to spend that kind of money. I don't recall Barkley ever getting an offer in his prime to play for the Bulls and being like "nah I'm going to do this on my own." Of course when he was older and making less and hence more affordable, he jumped at the opportunity when it arose.

So was his never signing with other super stars in his prime due to principle or simply because he never had that opportunity because the salary structure back then didn't allow for it?

 

[didshereallysaythat]

The only way they can do that is to dramatically reduce the cap so the Warriors have to do what the Blackhawks do and sell off half their team after the season ends.

Yep. It might be hard for them to retain Durant, Curry and Iggy after this year when all are FA. They might be left with just Curry.

This year is going to be crazy though. Everyone is going to be trying to beat the Warriors again.

 

[clonetrooper264]

Yep. It might be hard for them to retain Durant, Curry and Iggy after this year when all are FA. They might be left with just Curry.

This year is going to be crazy though. Everyone is going to be trying to beat the Warriors again.

Bird rights? That should help them keep Iggy and Curry at least. Idk how early Bird rights work but I'm guessing they'll find a way to work Durant in there.

 

[FirstTimer]

This is the other reason why Barkley's comments are dumb. Part of the reason we probably never saw this in his era was that owners weren't willing to spend that kind of money. I don't recall Barkley ever getting an offer in his prime to play for the Bulls and being like "nah I'm going to do this on my own." Of course when he was older and making less and hence more affordable, he jumped at the opportunity when it arose.

So was his never signing with other super stars in his prime due to principle or simply because he never had that opportunity because the salary structure back then didn't allow for it?

The season before the trade Barkley was the 15th highest paid player in the NBA.

The season he was traded he was making the same as a guy like Karl Malone.

Again, reality bites you in the ass.

 

[FirstTimer]

Bird rights? That should help them keep Iggy and Curry at least. Idk how early Bird rights work but I'm guessing they'll find a way to work Durant in there.

Durant wouldn't be eligible for Bird Rights.

 

[remydat]

I agree. Your entire point is stupid.

Your entire basis for Barkley being a hypocrite is him criticizing Kevin Durant and Lebron James for doing something he himself did.

Barkley didn't do what James and Durant did based on the reality and context of the situations, therefore Barkley is not a hypocrite.

You can't claim Barkley is a hypocrite, calling into evidence what he did and using his past against him, then when the ACTUAL context of the history and situations are brought up claim that we can't make those distinctions because Barkley didn't.

YOU brought Barkley's past into the equation by making claims about/against him, as such his entire history and actual life is now admissible to evaluate and in this case rebuke those claims.

No one with a brain expects Barkley to give a 15 page address on the issue citing differences in his situation. We saw it happen, we have the internet, we have data and the actual experience. Normal minded people can evaluate this pretty easily.

You, for some reason, have the cognitive ability of a three year old and aren't able to.

So yes, I agree, this(you) are stupid.

No. Here's the actual situation(s)..again:

You're easily the worst poster in this entire community.

Congrats.

At no point in his chastising Durant did he claim his only objection was the timing. That is something you added to argue why he isn't a hypocrite.

Further, it is a matter of opinion whether you choose to consider that a significant enough distinction. We both know that Barkley went chasing after championships at some point in his career. So who is he to get upset that Durant chose to do so sooner in his career than he did? It's a stupid fucking distinction to make particularly when Durant gave OKC 9 years of his career because it's completely arbitrary.

If we assume that Barkley's view is as you said then all he did was set an arbitrary number for deciding that it's too soon for Durant to team up with superstars to chase a championship and lo and behold, that arbitrary number happens to ensure he is not included in the group he wants to chastise.

 

[remydat]

The season before the trade Barkley was the 15th highest paid player in the NBA.

The season he was traded he was making the same as a guy like Karl Malone.

Again, reality bites you in the ass.

Barkley, 33, has two years left on his contract, which pays him $4.6 million next season. The combined salaries of the four Houston players are within the allowable 15 percent of Barkley's salary, bringing the deal into compliance with the league's salary cap restrictions.

http://www.nytimes.com/1996/08/19/sports/barkley-confirms-his-trade-to-rockets.html

The dude averaged 23.2 points and 11.6 rebounds and was getting paid 4.6 million. In today's terms, a guy with those numbers would be getting 20 million a year at least in a max deal. As I said the salary structure was completely different back then.

http://basketball.realgm.com/nba/info/salary_cap

As the above shows, when he got traded, There was no luxury tax and all the exceptions they have today so you had to stay within the salary cap hence why the players the Rockets sent back had to match Barkley's in salary within a certain percentage.

So there was limited ability in the era he played for super teams to be set up with players in the prime of their career because the salary cap and structure was different.

The cap was like 24 million back then so the difference between 15th highest paid and top 5 was a millions and those millions were significant in the context of a 24 million cap where you don't have the option to pay a luxury tax and just go over.

 

[The Hawk]

Again this has nothing to do with my point. My point was never about which was a bigger deal. Barkley made comments that Durant decided to team up with other stars instead of staying with his team and toughing it out.

My point is Barkley is being a hypocrite. He didn't tough things out. He orchestrated two trades in his career to chase a championship. The last one was shot he could go play with 2 other guys on the list of 50 greatest NBA players of all time. He did this just after that group had won a championship with the past few years.

So he's being a hypocrite. At no point in his discussion of this did he acknowledge he orchestrated trades to go play with other stars and at no pointime did he claim his only concern was the timing in their careers when the did so. He was making it sound like he would never go play on a team where he wasn't the man which is objectively false. He went chasing a championship by signing up to be Hakeem'so wingman.

That is just bullshit. Barkley was traded and is no way a hypocrite. He is not always right in what he has done or said but he is nothing but honest in his views. And he is 100% correct in his assessment of the bullshit going on in the NBA and they are killing the golden goose. Hell, they should probably cancel the regular season and go directly to the championship round. I even hear two numbnuts on a local radio station out here saying that how much fun it was going to be to see two teams roll over everyone in their conferences and be SUPER TEAMS. Well **** THIS. I suggest that fans not go to their local teams games. Just find something else to do. THe tickets are highly priced and you team doesn't have a chance to win so **** it. Teach these assholes a lesson.

 

[The Hawk]

As entertaining as Barkley can be, he can be equally as stupid. What the **** does he care about players making money? Good. They should be making money, he should be happy for them. And it's not going to kill the NBA because the NBA has always been about a handful of teams being good. Honestly, how many sports leagues have more than 4 legit title contenders anyway?


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Barkley is correct. ANd I hope that the NBA disintegrates. When the 10th guy on your roster is making $10M per year it is bullshit.

 

[The Hawk]

The NHL I suppose.

Baseball also. Football is also a more competitive sport. It is pretty much only basketball that only a couple of teams that will contend for the next two or three years. Why go to watch your team when they have no chance to win anything. For me, I cannot afford in good conscience pay good money to watch these completely over-paid fellows badly play a game. It is unwatchable. I started going to watch high school games a couple of years ago. Those kids compete. They play hard. I'd rather watch kids like this than watch a bunch of millionaires go through the motions and sit down like Rose with a hangnail.

 

[The Hawk]

But its a double standard. People get upset when Derrick Rose puts more value on earning power than winning games. People get upset when Kevin Durant places more value on winning games than earning power.

Its also a double standard specifically with Durant. If Durant had been on the last-place 76ers, and then signed with the Warriors, would people be upset? Probably not. But they are upset in part because Durant was already on a good Thunder team...which is like penalizing Durant for winning games, and then criticizing him when he wants to win even more games.

The total bullshit is the system itself. Two super-teams a couple of other teams with maybe at best a 20% of winning a championship. If that is a good league than no thanks. When a scrub on the bench earns $10M a year than the entire league is bullshit.

 

[The Hawk]

Which has nothing to do with my point. Barkley's comments acted like he never signed with other super stars to chase a championship when in fact he did. The fact he did so later in his career is irrelevant because he didn't make that distinction in his comments. He made it sound like you should never do what Durant did which he himself obviously did.

Barkely's opinion was astute and factual. The actions on the part of these superstar's and actually the league itself is a farce. I admire Barkley for taking this position.

 

[Raskolnikov]

I think he should have signed a 3 year with player option after 13 months of contract with the Thunder, to protect himself from injury, protect himself if Westbrook walked, protect himself if the cap spiked additionally, and there is a good argument I think about why he should not have walked.

He still had a really really good chance to win a championship with the team that he came up with. Its not like he walked from a dud, he walked from a team that went to 7 in Western Conference finals, continued to make draft improvements and add bigs to support him inside, had one more prime shot with Westbrook.

He walked on a superteam, made a different superteam invinciple except for injury, and forced all other players in the league to consider formig 3 or 4 superteams and nobody else can do shit. The Cavs spent 250,000,000 and built a roster the rest of the East couldn't even see from the shadow.

The Spurs are at long last too old, and must retool around Aldridge/Leonard. Can they count on Ginobli/Parker to give them much next year?

The Clippers if healthy can do some things on a court, does DeAndre's full potential come out with a rule change? What are the Clippers capable of when Jordan's effeciency goes from a negative to top 5 in NBA. They need to build some chemistry but they also have 3 point shooting.