Kevin Barkley vs Charles Durant thread formerly AtL

[remydat]

Makes sense. We cannot quantify the Durant signing as being "good" for the Warriors until we get more clarity on what Durant's role is going to be.

As far as PF free agent signings go, here is how I would rank them so far:

1) West
Tied for 2) Durant and Barnes

LOL who said it wasnt a good signing? Can you read? I said you can't pretend that the Warriors are looking at Durant as mainly a PF until you see how they play guy who played the majority of his time as a SF. The Death Lineup that I expect him play PF hasn't historically played the bulk of the minutes.

 

[Benchmob757]

2016-17 NBA Around the League thread

All of them except the NBA?

Not many repeat super bowls or world series. The NBA has a ton.

Maybe not so much NFL, but even there you have teams in recent years that are always in the mix. NE always is. Plus single elimination in football can cause more surprises. In baseball, historically you saw a couple teams dominate and in recent years you even saw the Giants win every other year. I'm not a big baseball fan, I find it painfully boring and by the looks of the stadiums, so do the fans. European soccer typically only has a couple teams compete year to year, and they're not hurting for money or popularity either. NHL is fairly competitive but I bet they wished they had NBA money.

I just don't think this notion of competitiveness drives popularity or revenue.

You gotta think, there was no unrestricted free agency in the NBA until the late 80s. Didn't make the league less competitive, if anything it's been more competitive since then, and even if it hasn't, it never hurt the bottom line.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[stevethacreator]

Barkley's got the speaking etiquette of Popeye The Sailor. But even he knows that Durant taking that contract and joining a Western rival, devalues the competitive aspect of the game. Because a few years ago Durant decided to tweet when The Heat were running roughshod back in the early 2010s. Look, I can understand players wanting money, that's your job, and as if you play up to your level and above many peoples expectations, you deserve the money. But Kevin signed for less money than his 89 million / five year contract back during the 2011-12 season.

Money isn't the issue, and some people don't understand that, he's more or less trying to validate his career by this move. Because who wants to be a 7-time All Star, former MVP, and 4-time scoring champ with no ring to cap off these accolades? He doesn't wanna turn into Carmelo, sad to say. So me, I'm not mad about the money because essentially, after those two years are up, he could re-sign with the Warriors with a bigger contract. But from a fan perspective, he essentially was one game away from putting away one of the best regular season teams in NBA history. He had a good team, an All-Star point guard and a good coach.

So in fan's eyes he's tucked his tail between his legs and ran (That's no my opinion), to chase after greatness. And to some people that's sore, because OKC is a pretty good fanbase...to an extent. My opinion on this, is that, sure Barkley should be glad he's getting paid. But he shouldn't be glad that in this day and age, we're watching competition become marginalized.

 

[remydat]

I'm convinced you don't even watch NBA basketball.

I'm not sure what's worse about your above statement:

1. That you think Aldridge plays "in the post" in any sense of the traditional word

2. That you think Ibaka plays in the post and are ignoring his explosion as a guy who shoots three's.

3. That you think Kanter/Adams are 4's at all.

4. I don't even have any idea what you are attempting to say about Griffin.




No, it's being honest.

No, you have no idea what the NBA is like, or the NFL, God help you if you start talking baseball.

So the only "legit" PF's are guys like Kevin McHale.

Good to know.




Call me and the rest of the basketball world crazy but I think Durant can play the stretch 4 just fine. He seems to be a pretty good shooter.

I don't know.


Yeah they got another PF who only started 20 games last year...I bet he takes time away from Durant.

http://projectspurs.com/2016-articles/spurs-points-in-paint-increase-as-season-progresses.html

Aldridge increased his points from the paint as the season went on once he got more comfortable with the team and style.

Ibaka can shoot the 3 but that is not where the bulk of his points come from as far as I am aware. They come from the paint.


In the link I already provided there were times where Adams and Kanter played together which means one of them was playing the 4. They played the 4 just as much if not more than Durant did.

I never claimed Durant can't play the stretch 4. I said he actually rarely played it in OKC as he was mostly a SF. I also said you have no proof that the Warriors plan to use him mostly as a stretch 4 rather than mostly as a a SF who plays the stretch 4 in limited time in the death lineup. If it is the latter then that is why they were thin at PF and hence why they went out and signed West.

 

[remydat]

Barkley's got the speaking etiquette of Popeye The Sailor. But even he knows that Durant taking that contract and joining a Western rival, devalues the competitive aspect of the game. Because a few years ago Durant decided to tweet when The Heat were running roughshod back in the early 2010s. Look, I can understand players wanting money, that's your job, and as if you play up to your level and above many peoples expectations, you deserve the money. But Kevin signed for less money than his 89 million / five year contract back during the 2011-12 season.

Money isn't the issue, and some people don't understand that, he's more or less trying to validate his career by this move. Because who wants to be a 7-time All Star, former MVP, and 4-time scoring champ with no ring to cap off these accolades? He doesn't wanna turn into Carmelo, sad to say. So me, I'm not mad about the money because essentially, after those two years are up, he could re-sign with the Warriors with a bigger contract. But from a fan perspective, he essentially was one game away from putting away one of the best regular season teams in NBA history. He had a good team, an All-Star point guard and a good coach.

So in fan's eyes he's tucked his tail between his legs and ran (That's no my opinion), to chase after greatness. And to some people that's sore, because OKC is a pretty good fanbase...to an extent. My opinion on this, is that, sure Barkley should be glad he's getting paid. But he shouldn't be glad that in this day and age, we're watching competition become marginalized.

You should read the comments Barkley said after he joined the Rockets to chase a championship with a team that had just recently won a championship. He was pretty estatic about trying to ride the coattails of Hakeem and playing with other greats to chase a championship.

 

[remydat]

You've never stated that it was a good signing. Your only thoughts on the signing were that the Warriors now have less money to fill out the rest of the roster, and that now the Warriors are limited salary cap wise...both negative statements. In other posts, you've criticized Durant for not being a 'banger', not being a legit PF, and questioning Durant's potential ability to be a stretch 4. Again, all negative statements.

At what point was I supposed to deduce that you thought the Durant signing was "good"?

You should probably read posts 88 and 113 genius. I had one post about them being a bit thin now but that was after I already commented that the choice before KD was easy. You'd have to be an idiot to not understand from those posts that I thought it was a good move. Then again you are an idiot.

 

[remydat]

Comparing a worn-out Barkley to a prime Durant is silly. Barkley's signing with the Rockets sent about as much of a "shockwave" across the NBA as the Karl Malone/Gary Payton signings of the Lakers a few years later.

Which has nothing to do with my point. Barkley's comments acted like he never signed with other super stars to chase a championship when in fact he did. The fact he did so later in his career is irrelevant because he didn't make that distinction in his comments. He made it sound like you should never do what Durant did which he himself obviously did.

 

[FirstTimer]

Aldridge increased his points from the paint as the season went on once he got more comfortable with the team and style.

I repeat:

I'm not sure what's worse about your above statement:

1. That you think Aldridge plays "in the post" in any sense of the traditional word

2. That you think Ibaka plays in the post and are ignoring his explosion as a guy who shoots three's.

Yet again, you respond to nothing I even said.


Cool, Aldridge scored a lot of points in the paint at times. His teammate Tony Parker lead the NBA in points in the paint some years. Does that mean he was playing a "legit/traditional" PF role?

Aldridge was taking less shots PG from the paint at one than Jimmy Butler was. He was one of the playoff leaders in shots from 10-14ft from the basket.

I can't emphasize how wrong you are about the way Aldridge plays.

In the regular season:


He attempted the same amount of shots from 5-9 feet as guys like Kyrie Irving, Pau Gasol.

For Christ sakes Derrick Rose took more shots PG from that distance.

He wasn't in the top 50 of shots taken from less than 5ft.

He was 16th in the league in shots from 10-14

He was 8th in the NBA in shots taken from 15-19ft per game. He took nearly as many shots from that distance as he did from less than 5ft from the basket per game.


Ibaka took nearly twice as many shots from 15-19 feet as he did from less than 5ft.

Ibaka averaged ONE shot a game from 5-9ft from the basket.

You have ZERO clue as to what the hell you're talking about.

In the link I already provided there were times where Adams and Kanter played together which means one of them was playing the 4.

Breaking news, the Thunder randomly went big for periods of time.


Kanter and Adams are not 4's.

I said he actually rarely played it in OKC as he was mostly a SF.

Cool, and I never said he played it a lot, or at all for OKC.

I just said he'd be a really awesome one for GS.

Thanks for playing.

 

[clonetrooper264]

For the uninformed...

Aldridge and Ibaka are primarily known for their prolific midrange jump shooting. Ibaka also shoots a good amount of 3s. Neither are known for their post play.

 

[stevethacreator]

But its a double standard. People get upset when Derrick Rose puts more value on earning power than winning games. People get upset when Kevin Durant places more value on winning games than earning power.

Its also a double standard specifically with Durant. If Durant had been on the last-place 76ers, and then signed with the Warriors, would people be upset? Probably not. But they are upset in part because Durant was already on a good Thunder team...which is like penalizing Durant for winning games, and then criticizing him when he wants to win even more games.

It's weird, but a majority sports fans don't know what they want, in the sense that they want this brand to succeed, but don't understand what keeps said brand afloat. People love melodrama...they love stories, and sometimes sports tell AMAZING stories. People would've loved the story of Derrick coming back from career shortening injuries and going back to being the hope of a new mythos in Bulls basketball. People would've loved the story of KD taking a re-branded team and helping mold that franchise into one of the best teams in the West. And I feel like people believe they were cheated out of those moments or hope and aspirations and got smacked in the face with reality super hard.

I understand KD and Derrick's ambitions, because their understandable wants. If it were ANYONE else that KD could've signed with, hey, he made that team better. But signing with the Warriors, just creates this atmosphere that...he needs some sort of validation for all of his hard work. And he's worked hard, but after that WCF's in which he was asked to take over and be a leader only to go cold and squash OKC's chances of going to another Finals; Then to join your rival sucks to most. But you made a good point, there is a weird double standard.

 

[FirstTimer]

For the uninformed...

Aldridge and Ibaka are primarily known for their prolific midrange jump shooting. Ibaka also shoots a good amount of 3s. Neither are known for their post play.

Jimmy Butler has taken 398 3pts Att the last two years

Ibaka has taken 389.

Ibaka is a "legit"/traditional PF though according to remy.

:aj:

 

[remydat]

Jimmy Butler and Kyrie Irving spend a chunk of their time driving to the basket so why would they be relevant to you point?

And it's funny you claim I haven't address what you said when you complatelet misrepresent what I said.

I never used legit PF to refer to a stretch 4 and I never claimed Kanter or Adams are 4s. I said they played the 4 because in the link know I provided there were lineup combinations where they did. That was a factual statement based on reality.

No one disputes that Durant can pay the stretch 4. I simply said he didn't last year and we don't know yet if he will play it a lot in GS so claiming I was wrong to say they were thin at PF is dumb.

You are basically taking your assumptions, pretending they are mine and then concluding on it as if I said it.

 

[FirstTimer]

Jimmy Butler and Kyrie Irving spend a chunk of their time driving to the basket so why would they be relevant to you point?

Because at last check LaMarcus Aldridge is capable of and does spend a lot of time driving to the basket off of face up chances 14-19ft away from the rim.

Do you watch NBA basketball?

I never claimed Kanter or Adams are 4s.

Well, they aren't.

we don't know yet if he will play it a lot in GS

This is an absurdly basketball Special person comment.

Every single analysis of the Durant signing talks about this.

so claiming I was wrong to say they were thin at PF is dumb.

No, you claiming the Warriors are thin at the 4 is dumb, unless you're talking about Durant's build.

 

[remydat]

Whether a guy like Aldridge or Ibaka is capable of playing the stretch 4 doesn't change the fact they also are capable of playing a legit PF position. They possess the post up skills and bodies to play it. Over time they also developed an outside game that allowed them to play as a stretch 4. Durant is a SF that can play a Stretch 4 but at this point hasn't shown at any point in his career that he can play a legit post up PF position.

And every single analysis says Durant will play some PF most likely. How much is speculation at this point. Once again the death lineup did not play the bulk of the minutes. If Durant plays PF as a replacement in the Death Lineup then yes the Warriors were still thin at PF and Center hence why they signed West.

You're being dense and acting like Barnes played 30-35 minutes at PF. He did not. And at this point you have no proof to say Durant will as well. The Warriors lost 2 big men and pretending like there was ever a chance they were not going to replace them is dumb. There were thin.

 

[FirstTimer]

They possess the post up skills and bodies to play it.

True, when I think of Kevin Durant I think of an undersized underskilled player.

Durant is a SF that can play a Stretch 4 but at this point hasn't shown at any point in his career that he can play a legit post up PF position.

HAVE YOU EVER WATCHED THE GOLDEN STATE WARRIORS PLAY BASKETBALL?!?

Why are you concerned with Durant's ability to post up as a 4 when he just got traded to the GSW.

HAVE YOU EVER WATCHED THE GOLDEN STATE WARRIORS PLAY BASKETBALL?!?

This is a team who has won 140 regular season games over the past two seasons with virtually zero post sets in their system.

HAVE YOU EVER WATCHED THE GOLDEN STATE WARRIORS PLAY BASKETBALL?!?


Why is your discussion of Durant, who is currently on the Golden State Warriors, concerned at ALL with his ability to post up?

HAVE YOU EVER WATCHED THE GOLDEN STATE WARRIORS PLAY BASKETBALL?!?

The Warriors signed David West because he's a good basketball player, regardless of position. West doesn't even play a traditional back to the basket PF anyways. West is another pick and pop big who over the last three seasons nearly 40% of his shots have come from 16+ feet away from the rim.

 

[Scoot26]

Barkley didn't sign with Houston, he was traded.

 

[FirstTimer]

Which has nothing to do with my point. Barkley's comments acted like he never signed with other super stars to chase a championship when in fact he did. The fact he did so later in his career is irrelevant because he didn't make that distinction in his comments. He made it sound like you should never do what Durant did which he himself obviously did.

No, Barkley has an issue with guys in their primes chasing championships.

Barkley was traded from a floundering Suns franchise to the Rockets at nearly 34 years old. He was joining Drexler and Hakeem who were both 34 as well and Houston was coming off a season where they didn't just set the NBA record for wins in a season.

Drexler retired a year later.
Olajuwon never started more than 50 games a year the rest of his career after 96-97 and was retired 5 years later.
Barkley retired 4 years later.

Barkley going to the Rockets is nothing like what has happened with James/Durant, unless you expect Durant, Curry, Thompson, and Green to all be retired in two to five seasons and the Warriors were a middling team in the West last year.

Barkley getting traded to the Rockets based on this offseason is most comparable to Wade coming to Chicago if ANY comparison is going to be made.

He didn't/should have had to make any distinction in his comments because people with a brain know the difference.

 

[remydat]

What? Barkley signing with the Rockets is not anywhere near comparable to Durant signing with the Warriors.

When LeBron signed with Miami, did you shrug your shoulders and say "Whats the big deal? This is just like when Robert Parish signed with the Bulls."

Again this has nothing to do with my point. My point was never about which was a bigger deal. Barkley made comments that Durant decided to team up with other stars instead of staying with his team and toughing it out.

My point is Barkley is being a hypocrite. He didn't tough things out. He orchestrated two trades in his career to chase a championship. The last one was shot he could go play with 2 other guys on the list of 50 greatest NBA players of all time. He did this just after that group had won a championship with the past few years.

So he's being a hypocrite. At no point in his discussion of this did he acknowledge he orchestrated trades to go play with other stars and at no pointime did he claim his only concern was the timing in their careers when the did so. He was making it sound like he would never go play on a team where he wasn't the man which is objectively false. He went chasing a championship by signing up to be Hakeem'so wingman.

 

[remydat]

Barkley didn't sign with Houston, he was traded.

Barkley demanded that trade dude.

 

[FirstTimer]

My point is Barkley is being a hypocrite.

You're an idiot.

Barkley was traded from a floundering Suns franchise to the Rockets at nearly 34 years old. He was joining Drexler and Hakeem who were both 34 as well and Houston was coming off a season where they didn't just set the NBA record for wins in a season.

Drexler retired a year later.
Olajuwon never started more than 50 games a year the rest of his career after 96-97 and was retired 5 years later.
Barkley retired 4 years later.

Barkley going to the Rockets is nothing like what has happened with James/Durant, unless you expect Durant, Curry, Thompson, and Green to all be retired in two to five seasons and the Warriors were a middling team in the West last year.

Barkley getting traded to the Rockets based on this offseason is most comparable to Wade coming to Chicago if ANY comparison is going to be made.

He didn't/should have had to make any distinction in his comments because people with a brain know the difference.

The other trade you bring up he went to the Suns, who had no other super star players, much less the reigning two time MVP, they hadn't made it past the 2nd round the previous two years..one year falling ou tin the 1st round...much less back to back NBA Finals appearances including a win, on top of all this the 76ers were a train wreck at the time. Barkley was asking for a trade to go to a team where he could be THE guy.

His comments going back years are about other established franchise guys in their prime, going to other teams to team up with other superstars to take a step back and chase rings.

People with brains understand this.

You can continue to ignore the reality of the situations, that's fine, but it only makes you look even dumber.