Lake found on Mars

[remydat]

then you are working back from a predetermined conclusion that there must be life outside Earth...that is a non-starter

No they are not as they are not asserting that the number calculated is actually the correct probability. They are just calculating how low that number has to be for us to be alone.

Lol no....I can’t believe you guys are still arguing this and can’t believe you still don’t grasp it.

There is zero conclusion made whatsoever. It’s all just probability. Or to put it another way, the ODDS or probability that we are the only form of life in the universe, is really, really, really fucking low. Does that work better for you? Zero conclusions made.

I really have no idea why he is not understanding this.

no.....I understand everything you guys are saying and I don't agree you can create a probability that means anything

No you clearly don't.

 

[nc0gnet0]

Say for example. They look the same size in the sky. Because the Sun's diameter is 400 times greater than the moon, and also, 400 times further away from earth. Also plays into eclipses and how if was any other size, there wouldn't be them like they are.

The similarities with planets we can actually study and their moons aren't directly the same as Earth and ours. Shit ton of unexplored space. Like looking at a few square inches of sand on a beach and saying the ocean doesn't exist.

I just find it personally interesting. Without it, the life we flourish in wouldn't exist either. Moons a huge factor in Planet Earth being what it is. Coincidence, chaos, design... who knows.

Your basing this on the assumption life wouldn't exist under different circumstances, when in effect, life evolved to thrive under the circumstances that presented themselves.

 

[nc0gnet0]

no.....I understand everything you guys are saying and I don't agree you can create a probability that means anything

We already know life exists here. If we rule out divine intervention, why can't we calculate the chances of life existing on other planets? Given the exact same set of circumstances, wouldn't we expect the same results?

Or is your underlying premise that we can't rule out divine intervention, which is the only case I see your argument having merit.

 

[nc0gnet0]

What biblical implications would there be?

* The earth was made first, and the other heavenly bodies made on the fourth day were for signs and seasons for the earth.

* The heavens, the earth, and everything therein were created in six days (Exodus 20:11). Man is the crowning glory of creation, and all creation is to be subservient to him.

* For man’s sake, because of Adams fall, all creation is cursed and subject to futility and ‘bondage to decay’ (Romans 8). Other civilizations, presumably sinless, would then have to share in the effects of this cursed cosmos

* It was on this earth that the Creator Himself became flesh, and bled and died for Adam’s hapless race—and because of His redeeming action, all creation will one day share in the effects of total redemption/restoration. For beings unrelated to Adam to share in the cosmic effects of both curse and restoration seems to ignore the whole thrust of Scriptural cosmology.



The Bible does say we are made in God’s image and likeness (Genesis 1:26). Man was immediately created a fully intelligent being about 6,000 years ago and was involved in craftsmanship shortly thereafter (Genesis 4:22). Since that time, even we have not been able to develop technologies advanced enough to travel to other star systems. If aliens were capable of developing incredible faster-than-light spaceships needed to get here, one would presume they must have been created with vastly superior intellect to ours—which would make them even more in God’s likeness in that sense than we are. Or, their creation is much older than the 6,000 years of the biblical six-day timeframe; the aliens were created before man and had sufficient time to develop their technologies. However, God created Earth on Day 1 and later the heavenly bodies on Day 4.

https://creation.com/did-god-create-life-on-other-planets

Although the Bible does not say that no life was created elsewhere, it is loaded with logical and theological inconsistencies and contradictions.

 

[BaBaBlacksheep]

If life on Earth can survive the Remy Vortex then I'm sure a little bit of salt water on Mars is gonna be no problem.

 

[Ares]

If life on Earth can survive the Remy Vortex then I'm sure a little bit of salt water on Mars is gonna be no problem.

TBD would prefer the salty brine

 

[LordKOTL]

At the moment.

In the past the moon was closer and appeared much larger, in the future it will be further and appear smaller. It's really just a momentary coincidence.

Artists representation of what the moon probably looked like around a billion years ago (sorry Brett)

Interesting...Given the landscape, that looks like Hadean æon so about 4 billion. That would still fit in with the currently estimated formation of the moon for the Theia hypothesis (giant impact)--as well as the size of the moon. 1 Billion years ago the moon would be somewhat smaller, but the earth, experiencing the oxygen catastrophe, would have been likely glaciated almost to the equator. The moon would have been much bigger than today. Conversely, The current hypothesis is that in about 600MA, the moon will be so far away that we will have no more total solar eclipses.

Interesting thing I read about life, though. Looking here on earth I once read a statement that went something like, "if there is a source of energy available, there will soon be a protein synthesized to exploit it" or something to that nature. It's been years. So that being said if extrapolate that out to non-terrestrial life forms...I don't think the conditions have to be *exactly* the same as earth's but merely close. Considering that there are plenty of chemoautotrophs that live around vulcanic vents on the seabed that subside on nothing more than hydrogen sulfide. What's to say that on another planet that has a butt-tonne more hydrogen sulfide than earth (hypothetically of course), complex organisms and a food web springs up around hydrogen sulfide systhesis--as opposed to photosynthesis as here on earth.

 

[remydat]

If life on Earth can survive the Remy Vortex then I'm sure a little bit of salt water on Mars is gonna be no problem.

Lol, I have to confess, I spit up my drink when I read this.

 

[Bears_804]

Your basing this on the assumption life wouldn't exist under different circumstances, when in effect, life evolved to thrive under the circumstances that presented themselves.

You're actually putting words in my mouth. Life could very well exist under any circumstance anywhere in the universe. I don't claim to know how any of that works, or what exist. Only that the planet we live on now, it's situation is due to the moon. If we didn't have the moon, yes the tides, weather, etc would most likely be way more extreme and rough, thus causing the planet earth to be a much different place than we are used to. Would that stop life forming, probably not, but that's not where I was going with it.

One of the most open people out there. Certainly believe in infinite possibilities and don't think we know anything as scientist regarding our own planet and moon, let alone what else is out there. Reality is our comprehension of what really is life, and how it exist, isn't even touching childs play in the grand scheme of things.

 

[Bears_804]

At the moment.

In the past the moon was closer and appeared much larger, in the future it will be further and appear smaller. It's really just a momentary coincidence.

Artists representation of what the moon probably looked like around a billion years ago (sorry Brett)

I didn't know that. Thank you for the insight. Very interesting.

 

[airtime143]

When I hear people carrying on about how there cannot be any other life out there, it always comes back to "why isnt there any proof? we would have found SOMETHING by now"

The sheer size of the universe makes that absurd.... but time makes it ESPECIALLY absurd.

We think of ourselves as advanced, but are we? Do we know what life would look like?
Someone using the "we have no proof, we should have by now, so there isnt any" is the same as a guy waking up in a dark room in chicago, opening his eyes, looking at the floor, and saying there is nothing in the entire city.

When you add cosmic time to the equation, it is the equivalent of someone sleeping all year long, awakening in a dark room at 1159 and 59 seconds, seeing a centimeter of floor in front of him, and concluding nothing happened in the city at all over the course of the year because he sees nothing.

 

[Ares]

When I hear people carrying on about how there cannot be any other life out there, it always comes back to "why isnt there any proof? we would have found SOMETHING by now"

The sheer size of the universe makes that absurd.... but time makes it ESPECIALLY absurd.

We think of ourselves as advanced, but are we? Do we know what life would look like?
Someone using the "we have no proof, we should have by now, so there isnt any" is the same as a guy waking up in a dark room in chicago, opening his eyes, looking at the floor, and saying there is nothing in the entire city.

When you add cosmic time to the equation, it is the equivalent of someone sleeping all year long, awakening in a dark room at 1159 and 59 seconds, seeing a centimeter of floor in front of him, and concluding nothing happened in the city at all over the course of the year because he sees nothing.

^^^ This

 

[Bears_804]

When I hear people carrying on about how there cannot be any other life out there, it always comes back to "why isnt there any proof? we would have found SOMETHING by now"

The sheer size of the universe makes that absurd.... but time makes it ESPECIALLY absurd.

We think of ourselves as advanced, but are we? Do we know what life would look like?
Someone using the "we have no proof, we should have by now, so there isnt any" is the same as a guy waking up in a dark room in chicago, opening his eyes, looking at the floor, and saying there is nothing in the entire city.

When you add cosmic time to the equation, it is the equivalent of someone sleeping all year long, awakening in a dark room at 1159 and 59 seconds, seeing a centimeter of floor in front of him, and concluding nothing happened in the city at all over the course of the year because he sees nothing.

^^^ This

:yep:

 

[remydat]

When I hear people carrying on about how there cannot be any other life out there, it always comes back to "why isnt there any proof? we would have found SOMETHING by now"

The sheer size of the universe makes that absurd.... but time makes it ESPECIALLY absurd.

We think of ourselves as advanced, but are we? Do we know what life would look like?
Someone using the "we have no proof, we should have by now, so there isnt any" is the same as a guy waking up in a dark room in chicago, opening his eyes, looking at the floor, and saying there is nothing in the entire city.

When you add cosmic time to the equation, it is the equivalent of someone sleeping all year long, awakening in a dark room at 1159 and 59 seconds, seeing a centimeter of floor in front of him, and concluding nothing happened in the city at all over the course of the year because he sees nothing.

Yep which is exactly why the probability of us being alone in the article I linked is ridiculously tiny. If you understand the size and age of the universe, it just seems highly unlikely that we are all there is in this universe.

But I suppose if you believe the world is only 6,000 years old then you also have to believe the Universe is much smaller than it is and so thus we are alone.

 

[Bears_804]

Yep which is exactly why the probability of us being alone in the article I linked is ridiculously tiny. If you understand the size and age of the universe, it just seems highly unlikely that we are all there is in this universe.

But I suppose if you believe the world is only 6,000 years old then you also have to believe the Universe is much smaller than it is and so thus we are alone.

How can anyone believe the world is 6K years old when Dinosaurs went extinct... EXTINCT (meaning thrived for who knows how long on this planet)! 65 million years ago

 

[Mitchapalooza]

How can anyone believe the world is 6K years old when Dinosaurs went extinct... EXTINCT (meaning thrived for who knows how long on this planet)! 65 million years ago

because he thinks all of our dating methods are wrong but a 2,000 year old book is correct.

I actually think deep down he knows he is wrong but he just plays ignorant and lies to himself to try and justify the bible.

 

[modo]

We already know life exists here. If we rule out divine intervention, why can't we calculate the chances of life existing on other planets? Given the exact same set of circumstances, wouldn't we expect the same results?

Or is your underlying premise that we can't rule out divine intervention, which is the only case I see your argument having merit.

because we don't know how life started....we know what it needs to thrive, but little clue on how matter becomes what we consider life. I'd call that a big step in the process of actual life forming.

As I said we have an Earth bias....we assume since it happened here that it must happen elsewhere without even understanding how it happened. Has nothing to do with divine intervention.

Life could be be everywhere in the Universe or it could have happened once. Without a framework of understanding the creation of life, we can't make an accurate prediction.

If you disagree, that's cool.

 

[modo]

We don't understand how life formed; we have come up with lots of different potential guessesa but aren't really close to the truth.......

Some scientist speculate it was a panspermia event by some unknown substance that caused it.

It may even be some sort of quantum tunneling event that allowed life to spring from non-life. Quantum biology is becoming more popular. Some believe that mutations can be caused by it.

If we do find it, we may come to understand that the creation of life process is a fairly common experience or something so rare that it may be lucky that it happened even once in the visible Universe.

So calculating a chance from that is fairly pointless.

 

[Mitchapalooza]

I'm sure this has been answered online somewhere, but is there a way for us to try and start life on Mars? Like start with plants and bacteria, etc.?

 

[nc0gnet0]

because we don't know how life started....we know what it needs to thrive, but little clue on how matter becomes what we consider life. I'd call that a big step in the process of actual life forming.

As I said we have an Earth bias....we assume since it happened here that it must happen elsewhere without even understanding how it happened. Has nothing to do with divine intervention.

Life could be be everywhere in the Universe or it could have happened once. Without a framework of understanding the creation of life, we can't make an accurate prediction.

If you disagree, that's cool.

But we do know it did start, ergo it is possible. Maybe even probable, given the near infinite vastness of the cosmos.