Let's start projecting what the Cubs will look like in a few years!

dabynsky

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No I didn't. But you also stated;

Yet returned proven talent, division titles, WS's?
He was great at trading. We agree on this. The breakdown here is when we look at the actual talent that he drafted and developed. That was not great. You can spin it however you want it but it is a semantic argument at that point when we both agree that he is a good GM.
 

Mongo_76

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LMAO,,, funny every month cubs lose a few in a row and the haters appear from no where and we go through the same BS for a couple of days of back n forth on why rickets cheap, theo sucks, and cubs are losers..


"few"?

You understand that they are a game out of last place in MLB...

Yet again. On pace for the worst 3 year stretch in team history.


Gotta love the mentality of Theo apologists.
 

diavolos

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So you're just a douche bag? Okay, got it.

so you have nothing to retort except for personal insults. okay, got it mr. smart guy.

so mr. smart guy, any other excuses? is it all just part of "the plan" for "sustained success" and we should all just be patient? hey, mr. smart guy, what does "sustained success" mean anyway? no seriously, when you hear tom ricketts say that shit, what does it mean? i want to know. because obviously in order to rebuild, teams need to tank seasons. i've never heard of a case of a team going from worst to first in one season, even winning the world series. no, that never happens. never. not under this cba. you should just forget about winning, mr. smart guy. instead, they've got a plan.
 

chibears55

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"few"?

You understand that they are a game out of last place in MLB...

Yet again. On pace for the worst 3 year stretch in team history.


Gotta love the mentality of Theo apologists.
Yea few meaning 5 in a row.. losing streak

You guys pop up every month when they go on one.

Dont see you guys when they win 4 of 5 or 7 of 10, just when they go in one of their spills..
 

diavolos

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Yea few meaning 5 in a row.. losing streak

You guys pop up every month when they go on one.

Dont see you guys when they win 4 of 5 or 7 of 10, just when they go in one of their spills..

i mean seriously, have you seen their record. who cares about winning 4 out of 5 or losing 11 out of 13. they've won a total of 40 games!
 

chibears55

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i mean seriously, have you seen their record. who cares about winning 4 out of 5 or losing 11 out of 13. they've won a total of 40 games!

LMFAO.. wow...

my original post was about how you knuckle heads only come in here and spout off about the same shit with this team every month when they go on a skid

nothing to do with how they've played all year... it was about you not the cubs..lol
 

Mongo_76

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LMFAO.. wow...

my original post was about how you knuckle heads only come in here and spout off about the same shit with this team every month when they go on a skid

nothing to do with how they've played all year... it was about you not the cubs..lol


And we're trying to explain to you that no one would be bitching about a 5 game slump. We're trying to figure out why supposed Cubs fans are giddy about purposeful 4 year slump.


Hell, the OP wrote the thread about what the team may look like in a "few" years - implying he's resigned to a crappy 2015 as well.
 

Parade_Rain

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My favorite teams
  1. Chicago Cubs
  1. Chicago Bulls
  1. Chicago Bears
  1. Illinois Fighting Illini
Hell, the OP wrote the thread about what the team may look like in a "few" years - implying he's resigned to a crappy 2015 as well.
Let us know when the OP is either the Front Office or the Ricketts and could actually change something.
 

chibears55

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And we're trying to explain to you that no one would be bitching about a 5 game slump. We're trying to figure out why supposed Cubs fans are giddy about purposeful 4 year slump.


Hell, the OP wrote the thread about what the team may look like in a "few" years - implying he's resigned to a crappy 2015 as well.

first off you guys come out once a month to spout the same crap about this team since spring training, we all know they suck.. that was my point
there other things to talk about with this team this year other then the parent team as a whole sucks.. it gets old

who says most of us are giddy over it ?? it is what it is, they stripped the parent club, lowered payroll and did their rebuild from the system..
its been 2 years now, its not something new.. you either agreed with it, disagreed with it, or just accepted it
bitching about it for 2 years changes nothing..
if you cant see that they now have a bit of a brighter future with what they've done and cant move on from the past disappointment of losing and how they went about it, then I don't know what to tell you..

for the record this team downfall started in 2010 with a very veteran high pay rolled team and no minor league system..
also, with 40 wins and 65 games remaining this team still has a shot at winning as many games as the 2010 and 2011 veteran high payrolled team did
 

Boobaby1

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i would love for someone to point out to me when the fucking yankees ever fucking tanked a season. or the cardinals. is it a surprise that these just happen to be the teams with the most world series? what about the bosox? or the giants or dodgers? yeah, all those aforementioned franchises have had bad stretches. but in my life, i have never, ever seen any of the franchises i just listed purposefully tank seasons, like what the cubs have done now...for the last four years in a row.

so you guys can talk about whatever bullshit prospects and the "plan" and the wrigley renovation bullshit.

You're right, the Yankees don't tank seasons. They are the exception and not the rule. The Cardinals haven't had to tank because they did have a few flukes as having arguably the best hitter (besides Cabrera now) and best catcher come through the system. They are the exception, and one that teams want to emulate. They did howeve remain very stagnant throughout the late 80's and through most of the 90's, so it does happen to them too.

The Yankees? Impossible because only a select few have the ability to spend like they do. As many know, I am a proponent to using free agents and the farm cohesively, but one is not here yet (or at least not enough).

That said, lets keep that word "system" fresh throughout the post. The aforementioned teams have had Jeter, Posada, Rivera, Petitte, Cano, Gardner and others come through the ranks. The Cardinals had Pujols, Craig, Molina, Rosenthall, Wacha, Wainright (via trade), Motte, Haren, Miller, Lynn, Kelly, Taveras, Wong, Jay, and the list goes on and on. Lets also not forget that the Cardinals traded away some of their system to net Edmonds, Rolen, Holiday, and Mulder.

And if you look at other teams around the league, the Giants with their guys (Cain, Posey, Lincecum, Bumgardner, Panda, Crawford, Vogelsong), A's, Nationals( Harper, Strasburg, Zimmerman's, Desmond, Rendon), (players to acquire Gio Gonzalez), Brewers (Fielder, Braun, Gallardo, Weeks, Hart, Hardy, Segura, Lucroy) , Braves, Pirates, Royals. The Phillies championship team had 8 of the 9 starters come via the system.

I could go on and on, and most around here feel that the Cubs are going to put free agents around the farm kids (whichever ones pan out) when the time comes, as opposed to not committing to players within the last three years because the farm is so close to bearing it's fruit. Not everyone is going to pan out, but it makes more sense to completely gut the team and start fresh. Throwing a ton of money against the wall to see if it sticks is not smart business sense.

The best way (not guaranteed) is to play the odds of reaping good teams because you have in-house guys at the parent level which you can control and keep cheaply and/or lock up. You have in-house guys you can trade to net what you needs are as the Cardinals did in the early 2000's, and because the kids are cheap, it gives you the financial flexibility to target the good players if/when they become available. If other teams can do it, why should the Cubs be immune to doing it?

All teams have good quality players that came up through the ranks. The Cubs best in the last 10 years or so have been Shark and Archer (who were traded), Rizzo, Castro, Marshall, and Russell. Not too good.

Yeah, it was definitely time to work on improving that "System" thing.

The object should be making the team the most attractive destination for players outside the system to want to come and play for (see the Cardinals). And if you take a stroll down memory lane, you will see that key components to the Cubs best years and teams were heavily influenced by kids who came up through the ranks, or kids in the "system" (Joe Carter, Bobby Hill, Choi) that were used to get exceptional players in return.

I feel the days of tanking personally are over, and since the farm is ever so close, they have Manny in AAA, McLeod signing an extension, and they have freed up even more with Soriano, Villy, Shark, Hammel, Veras, Fujikawa, Barney, Schierholz, and now have payroll flexibility, I fully believe brighter times are on the horizon.

I am anxious to see the kids join Rizzo and Castro in giving them the boost they need, and then hopefully, we will be putting all of this rant behind us in the very near future, and we can start focusing on which select free agents to acquire, and how we are taking most series versus other teams, rather than hoping we can take 1 out of every 3 now, and how we hate it that we are drafting # 29 or #30 in the draft. :beerbang:
 

theberserkfury

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You're right, the Yankees don't tank seasons. They are the exception and not the rule. The Cardinals haven't had to tank because they did have a few flukes as having arguably the best hitter (besides Cabrera now) and best catcher come through the system. They are the exception, and one that teams want to emulate. They did howeve remain very stagnant throughout the late 80's and through most of the 90's, so it does happen to them too.

The Yankees? Impossible because only a select few have the ability to spend like they do. As many know, I am a proponent to using free agents and the farm cohesively, but one is not here yet (or at least not enough).

That said, lets keep that word "system" fresh throughout the post. The aforementioned teams have had Jeter, Posada, Rivera, Petitte, Cano, Gardner and others come through the ranks. The Cardinals had Pujols, Craig, Molina, Rosenthall, Wacha, Wainright (via trade), Motte, Haren, Miller, Lynn, Kelly, Taveras, Wong, Jay, and the list goes on and on. Lets also not forget that the Cardinals traded away some of their system to net Edmonds, Rolen, Holiday, and Mulder.

And if you look at other teams around the league, the Giants with their guys (Cain, Posey, Lincecum, Bumgardner, Panda, Crawford, Vogelsong), A's, Nationals( Harper, Strasburg, Zimmerman's, Desmond, Rendon), (players to acquire Gio Gonzalez), Brewers (Fielder, Braun, Gallardo, Weeks, Hart, Hardy, Segura, Lucroy) , Braves, Pirates, Royals. The Phillies championship team had 8 of the 9 starters come via the system.

I could go on and on, and most around here feel that the Cubs are going to put free agents around the farm kids (whichever ones pan out) when the time comes, as opposed to not committing to players within the last three years because the farm is so close to bearing it's fruit. Not everyone is going to pan out, but it makes more sense to completely gut the team and start fresh. Throwing a ton of money against the wall to see if it sticks is not smart business sense.

The best way (not guaranteed) is to play the odds of reaping good teams because you have in-house guys at the parent level which you can control and keep cheaply and/or lock up. You have in-house guys you can trade to net what you needs are as the Cardinals did in the early 2000's, and because the kids are cheap, it gives you the financial flexibility to target the good players if/when they become available. If other teams can do it, why should the Cubs be immune to doing it?

All teams have good quality players that came up through the ranks. The Cubs best in the last 10 years or so have been Shark and Archer (who were traded), Rizzo, Castro, Marshall, and Russell. Not too good.

Yeah, it was definitely time to work on improving that "System" thing.

The object should be making the team the most attractive destination for players outside the system to want to come and play for (see the Cardinals). And if you take a stroll down memory lane, you will see that key components to the Cubs best years and teams were heavily influenced by kids who came up through the ranks, or kids in the "system" (Joe Carter, Bobby Hill, Choi) that were used to get exceptional players in return.

I feel the days of tanking personally are over, and since the farm is ever so close, they have Manny in AAA, McLeod signing an extension, and they have freed up even more with Soriano, Villy, Shark, Hammel, Veras, Fujikawa, Barney, Schierholz, and now have payroll flexibility, I fully believe brighter times are on the horizon.

I am anxious to see the kids join Rizzo and Castro in giving them the boost they need, and then hopefully, we will be putting all of this rant behind us in the very near future, and we can start focusing on which select free agents to acquire, and how we are taking most series versus other teams, rather than hoping we can take 1 out of every 3 now, and how we hate it that we are drafting # 29 or #30 in the draft. :beerbang:

Here's a pre-emptive :fap:

But honestly, beautifully put, boo.
 

KBIB

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Sorry 13, point still stands. No one saw him as a once in a generation hitter in the 13 round. No one. If they did, they would have took the risk earlier. To say that wasn't luck is just being stupod


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Stupider then saying he was an 8th round pick?
 

Mongo_76

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Boobaby, I have no issues with what you wrote. Much of it is agreeable.


Yeah, it was definitely time to work on improving that "System" thing.

The thing is life-long Cubs fans, real Cubs fans, season ticket holders, fans with kids, fans who have been loyal to the team for 40+ years (in my case), fans who have coached little league, and high school, and have told their kids to never ever give up... Watched this team purposefully give up. 4 years now and counting.

And while you say it was time for a "system" change, you and I both know this team has been a perennial cellar dweller in the past and tried this before. Theos "system"is not a new thing. It's actually an old thing. Old to baseball and old to the Cubs.


Many may not remember or have studied (there seems to be a lot of kids on this site) the 50's and 60's Cubs that built the farm that became the early 70's team - that failed.

Many may not remember the late 70's, early 80's teams that helped build a farm system that built the 1984 team - that failed.


The point is building a farm system not only doesn't guarantee prospects will succeed. It also doesn't guarantee the team will.

I will say it again. The ONLY thing tanking seasons guarantees is losing.

Theo's "lose to maybe win" system is not the only - and not the best IMO - way to build a team. Spending the AMPLE cash that a big city team like the Chicago Cubs has on proven talent (both on the roster and in FA) does guarantee you can challenge more than not. Hendry was given Card Blanche and won the division 3 out of 6 seasons between 2003 and 2008.


You are right. We went down a path and there's really no going back.

But to ask a 40 year old fan to give up 4 to 6 years and expect him to be happy with watching the most brutally pathetic Cubs baseball ever - is ridiculous.
 

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