Let's try this again: Best player not inducted to HoF yet?

[DewsSox79]

mitch williams


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[Boobaby1]

Ya know, He's probably going to get 450+ taters and 3000 hits and I would have said he'd only have maybe 2/3 of those numbers

http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/stats/_/id/3878/adrian-beltre

He's going to have the numbers that put him in. Scary breakfast thought for ya all

I personally thought he was the perfect example of a guy who landed the big contract only to disappoint. It goes to show that he had absolutely no help whatsoever in Seattle as his numbers reflect, and then a change of scenery around good teams in Boston and Texas and look what happens? A resurrected career with HOF credentials.

 

[FirstTimer]

Beltre is going to be a really interesting case. Tremendous fielder but only won 4 GG's. Really productive hitter but only a carry OPS+ of 114(Santo was a 125).

When you look at his black ink/grey ink he doesn't come anywhere close to typical HOF numbers.

His HOF Monitor and HOF Standards aren't there either but they are pretty close(within 5-10%)

His year by year career similarity scores are Manny Machado at 20 then pretty much Ron Santo every other season.

Career similarity is:

Santo
Kaline
Eddie Murray
Aramis Ramirez
Cal Ripken Jr
Dale Murphy
Shawn Green
Carl Yaz
Jim Rice
Billy Williams

bold denotes current HOF

Only 3 ASG appearances
(2) top 5 finishes in MVP voting
(3) Silver Sluggers

In a few years you might be able to sit down and say the career HR"s get him in MAYBE he barely gets to 3,000 hits but was it really a function of him being a "great" player or him being pretty good for a long time. I don't know.

 

[beckdawg]

I'm not sure he's the "best" player not in the HoF but Kenny Lofton may be the most underrated. He's arguably a top 5 CF defensively since at least 1950. Fangaphs has it as Andrew Jones, Willie Mays, Paul Blair, Devon White and then Lofton. Offensively he's a top 25 hitter since in CF. I feel like defense especially in CF is underrated considering how big of an impact it has.

 

[Boobaby1]

Beltre is going to be a really interesting case. Tremendous fielder but only won 4 GG's. Really productive hitter but only a carry OPS+ of 114(Santo was a 125).

When you look at his black ink/grey ink he doesn't come anywhere close to typical HOF numbers.

His HOF Monitor and HOF Standards aren't there either but they are pretty close(within 5-10%)

His year by year career similarity scores are Manny Machado at 20 then pretty much Ron Santo every other season.

Career similarity is:

Santo
Kaline
Eddie Murray
Aramis Ramirez
Cal Ripken Jr
Dale Murphy
Shawn Green
Carl Yaz
Jim Rice
Billy Williams

bold denotes current HOF

Only 3 ASG appearances
(2) top 5 finishes in MVP voting
(3) Silver Sluggers

In a few years you might be able to sit down and say the career HR"s get him in MAYBE he barely gets to 3,000 hits but was it really a function of him being a "great" player or him being pretty good for a long time. I don't know.

The All-Star game appearances don't really bother me. Not only do you have to be a good player, but there were some fairly good names to compete with in A-Rod, Cabrera, and Longoria, and I believe when he was in the NL, he was bucking Rolen, Ramirez, and Chipper Jones.

The All-Star game is a popularity contest IMO, and he wasn't getting a whole lot of love in his days in Seattle.

Tough call, but I think he will make a good case when the time comes as long as he plays a few more years.

 

[Parade_Rain]

I'm not sure he's the "best" player not in the HoF but Kenny Lofton may be the most underrated. He's arguably a top 5 CF defensively since at least 1950. Fangaphs has it as Andrew Jones, Willie Mays, Paul Blair, Devon White and then Lofton. Offensively he's a top 25 hitter since in CF. I feel like defense especially in CF is underrated considering how big of an impact it has.

When thinking of CF, I would strongly consider Jim Edmonds in CF and in my lineup. However, looking at his numbers, he belongs in the Hall of Very Good.

 

[Boobaby1]

When thinking of CF, I would strongly consider Jim Edmonds in CF and in my lineup. However, looking at his numbers, he belongs in the Hall of Very Good.

Speaking of former Cardinals, Scott Rolen was once thought of by some as the best 3rd basemen possibly ever. Now if you look at his totals, you would have to say that he doesn't come close to getting in.

 

[FirstTimer]

The All-Star game appearances don't really bother me. Not only do you have to be a good player, but there were some fairly good names to compete with in A-Rod, Cabrera, and Longoria, and I believe when he was in the NL, he was bucking Rolen, Ramirez, and Chipper Jones.

The All-Star game is a popularity contest IMO, and he wasn't getting a whole lot of love in his days in Seattle.

Tough call, but I think he will make a good case when the time comes as long as he plays a few more years.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not a huge ASG mark was just posting the info. What bothers me more is the virtual non-existence of Silver Sluggers, GG's(for such a great 3B), and the lack of MVP votes.

 

[FirstTimer]

Speaking of former Cardinals, Scott Rolen was once thought of by some as the best 3rd basemen possibly ever. Now if you look at his totals, you would have to say that he doesn't come close to getting in.

I think Rolen still has a pretty good shot. Universally seen as one of the best 3B defensively during his career. 10 year peak of .286/.376/.518 (OPS+ of 130)

Post 2006 injuries have pretty much torched his career but I think for a decade being maybe the best all around 3B in the NL(possibly in the MLB) is enough to get him in eventually.

 

[FirstTimer]

In all seriousness why/how the **** is Dick Allen not in the HOF?