Let's try this again: Best player not inducted to HoF yet?

SilenceS

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JosMin said:
Back on topic for the 2014 nominees. Nobody really ever talked about Jeff Kent, but isn't he one of the 10 greatest second basemen ever? I know, in my lifetime, the only guys I saw play who I'd rank ahead of him are Sandberg and Alomar.

Well above-average .290/.356/500 career slash line
377 home runs (most all-time among second basemen)
5-time All-Star
4-time Silver Slugger
2000 NL MVP (he beat out this ridiculous list of players.... some of those stat lines are mind-boggling)
1528 RBIs places him third among second basemen (behind Hornsby and Lajoie), including 8 100-RBI seasons
59.4 oWAR puts him ahead of Hall members Hank Greenberg, Jim Rice, Yogi Berra, Kirby Puckett and Orlando Cepeda

His peak seasons between '97 and 2005 stack up among any fellow second basemen's peak. Kent also had a very productive postseason career that was foiled by the allusive World Series championship. He got one shot in '02 with the Giants, were he hit .276 with 3 home runs, 6 runs and 7 RBIs. It was never really a doubt in my mind that Kent was a fantastic second baseman, but when you really look at his offensive numbers, he stacks up with the truly elite guys to ever play his position. With how loaded next year's ballot is going to be, I'm not sure he'll get the nod on his first try, but I certainly think he gets in within 5 years.
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Could find a problem that everybody thought he was a dickhead including the people that vote for the hall.
 

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SilenceS said:
Could find a problem that everybody thought he was a dickhead including the people that vote for the hall.
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This is what I was thinking the entire time I was reading JosMin's post. :D
 
JosMin

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Rory Sparrow said:
Kent is definitely a strange case. To me, he's kind of like Piazza in that he was a slugger at a position that doesn't usually have sluggers. Kent didn't really start to put up big numbers until he was 29, so he's somewhat of a late bloomer. He was snubbed from the all-star game numerous times...I was looking at the 2002 NL all-star team, and the 2Bs were Luis Castillo (.361 SLG) and Jose Vidro. Vidro had a good year (.315/.378/.490), but Kent's numbers were superior (.313/.368/.565), especially his power numbers.

I think what hurts Kent is that his detractors point to things that can't really be quantified easily...he wasn't very good in the field, and was a bad lockerroom guy. Should those things keep him out of the HOF? To me, no, but other people probably feel the opposite.
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Yeah, I really think it's going to be interesting to see how many votes he gets during his first year. I feel like he's going to reign in somewhere between 35 and 55%. Having three guys who are mortal locks (Frank Thomas, Greg Maddux, Tom Glavine) plus Craig Biggio, who should also get in his year and a few other borderline guys like Mike Piazza, Jeff Bagwell and Tim Raines, I just don't think he's going to get tons of love in the eyes of voters.

And yeah, he probably is going to get some backlash for being a total prick his entire career. I'll always remember that fight him and Bonds had in '02 that actually ended up sparking them to play a lot better. They ended up getting to the World Series that year.
 
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Rory Sparrow said:
Its bad that Kent is up against Biggio directly. Biggio is pretty much everything Kent wasn't, except "better".
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Biggio didn't have a sick mustache, though.
 
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JosMin said:
Yeah, I really think it's going to be interesting to see how many votes he gets during his first year. I feel like he's going to reign in somewhere between 35 and 55%. Having three guys who are mortal locks (Frank Thomas, Greg Maddux, Tom Glavine) plus Craig Biggio, who should also get in his year and a few other borderline guys like Mike Piazza, Jeff Bagwell and Tim Raines, I just don't think he's going to get tons of love in the eyes of voters.

And yeah, he probably is going to get some backlash for being a total prick his entire career. I'll always remember that fight him and Bonds had in '02 that actually ended up sparking them to play a lot better. They ended up getting to the World Series that year.
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........................?
 
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FirstTimer said:
........................?
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I'm talking about in terms of votes, not talent. Should've clarified that. We've definitely established that the general opinion of people who've posted in this thread that we think they're both locks. In the eyes of voters, who knows? I've never fully understood how some of these guys who are certainly Hall of Famers end up having to wait multiple seasons to be inducted. Like I said, with Maddux, Glavine and Thomas being mortal locks for this year, the ballot may get cramped. It's been a very long time since three players have been voted in the Hall in the same year by the BBWAA (1991, to be exact), so when you throw in the three guys who should be locks, the three guys who are certainly HoF worthy, and then throw in all the steroid guys, it's going to be a jammed ballot. Buster Onley, in particular, said he feels like there are 17 (woahhhhh) guys on this upcoming ballot who he thinks are worthy. That's huge.
 
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Rory Sparrow said:
But thats somewhat to be expected in that 1) Guys in the steroid era put up huge statistics relative to history, and 2) Those guys have been eligible but not enshrined. For a HOF that is already stingy when it comes to enshrining players, it has created an unprecedented backlog of statistically-worthy candidates.
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It is to be expected.... and it makes you wonder -- how long might a guy like Jeff Kent or Mike Piazza have to wait until they're inducted?
 
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Parade_Rain said:
AFAIK Biggio never crashed a motorcycle while under contract. That has to be in his favor. :D
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Epic flavor-saver mustache takes the cake.
 
SilenceS

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JosMin said:
Epic flavor-saver mustache takes the cake.
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He was just trying to flaver saver the girl he went down on the night before. It would keep him alert for games.
 
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SilenceS said:
He was just trying to flaver saver the girl he went down on the night before. It would keep him alert for games.
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How do you think he became the all-time leader in HRs by a second baseman? :D
 
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We're bumping this fuckin' thread, mainly because there are some really fresh GIFs in it.

What do you guys think about the '14 class and '14 vote totals?
 

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Eliminating guys that are still eligible and are not banned I'd say Dale Murphy
 
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His offensive numbers may not tell the whole story, but I am biased and going with my hometown boy Don Mattingly.

MVP, runner-up MVP, 6 time All-Star, 9-time GG, 3-time SS award, .307 lifetime AVG., .358 OBP, Yankee Captain, and never once did he strikeout more than 43 times in a single season.
 
SilenceS

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Boobaby1 said:
His offensive numbers may not tell the whole story, but I am biased and going with my hometown boy Don Mattingly.

MVP, runner-up MVP, 6 time All-Star, 9-time GG, 3-time SS award, .307 lifetime AVG., .358 OBP, Yankee Captain, and never once did he strikeout more than 43 times in a single season.
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I think Mattingly gets short changed because his HR peak was very short lived and he didnt play for a real long time to collect those key stats. He does have a case though.
 
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