LOL At Jeff Samardzija.

[Flacco4Prez]

Sign Tanka and package Shark and ship him off the TB for Price

 

[brett05]

Sign Tanka and package Shark and ship him off the TB for Price

OK, Shark and say Soler, Baez and .....

 

[SilenceS]

LOL at Jeff Samardzija.

OK, Shark and say Soler, Baez and .....

Cubs would never give them that much. That's two top 25 minor leaguers and a solidified ml starter with upside still under control. Price also would command a huge price tag. No team would give the rays that mich

 

[SilenceS]

LOL at Jeff Samardzija.

Hilarious

Funny?

 

[CSF77]

Rays would not trade for Shark. They trade to lose overhead while adding to the future. Shark they have the same control over him and are looking to lose him also. Won't happen ever.

 

[SilenceS]

Rays would not trade for Shark. They trade to lose overhead while adding to the future. Shark they have the same control over him and are looking to lose him also. Won't happen ever.

Eh, depending on if they could sign him cheap enough or think they could flip him again for more. I agree with what you said but they could have interest based on those two things.

 

[CSF77]

And S. shark has a better chance to becoming a back if the rotation vs top of the rotation. Seeing how avg back of the rotation guys like Maholm, Feldman and Wood improved under Bosio. Garza had some solid stuff under him in'13. Then guys like Shark and Jackson regressing? I believe it was because they were matching up against teams 1-2's and that they are not 1-2's in the league. So bad support and going against better starters. So Shark at best is a 3. He could be better but he is too dependent on if his split is working that day. Guys that are 1/2 in the league have better off stuff where their B game is good. Shark needs a 12-6 curve IMO to make the next step and use his fastball to set it and his split (if it works that day)

 

[Boobaby1]

Cubs would never give them that much. That's two top 25 minor leaguers and a solidified ml starter with upside still under control. Price also would command a huge price tag. No team would give the rays that mich

If the Cubs dis persue Price, I would think it would be in the range of prospects Soler, Voglebach, Johnson, and a PTBNL. The Rays are going to lose Price, so they will take the best package available and the Cubs would have to be guaranteed an extension.

Doubt it's the right time for that.

What they should do is find out what Tampa does to get arms in their system. That would be the cheapest route to go and most successful.

 

[SilenceS]

And S. shark has a better chance to becoming a back if the rotation vs top of the rotation. Seeing how avg back of the rotation guys like Maholm, Feldman and Wood improved under Bosio. Garza had some solid stuff under him in'13. Then guys like Shark and Jackson regressing? I believe it was because they were matching up against teams 1-2's and that they are not 1-2's in the league. So bad support and going against better starters. So Shark at best is a 3. He could be better but he is too dependent on if his split is working that day. Guys that are 1/2 in the league have better off stuff where their B game is good. Shark needs a 12-6 curve IMO to make the next step and use his fastball to set it and his split (if it works that day)

He has shown top of the rotation stuff and has pitched just as many great games as bad. I believe his slip in the second half was directly because of the Cubs fire sale. He voiced his displeasure big time. He looked like he just mentally checked out. Also, his peripherals were not that bad and any guy who is close to tops in the league in strikeouts always has potential for breakout seasons. He is not a back of the rotation guy right now. His is a middle. He is ranked with top 10 stuff in the league. He was called by experts an Ace in the first half and then all of sudden he is back of the rotation to people because of his second half. Shark wants a contract. He knows next year he will have to prove he is worth the money. I wouldn't bet against him. Also, Garza was very good his first year when Bosio wasn't even in the picture. I don't know how much Bosio has effected the pitchers are the Cubs just got lucky and sold high. They all regressed after leaving Chicago and I highly doubt they would have forgot everything Bosio taught them if that's the case.

 

[CSF77]

They regressed because of the IF positioning and scouting of the Cubs to pitch into hitters weak areas. That is on Bosio. This was gone over on Cubs.com and at the time Dale said that Jeff would at times let the AB get away from him instead of putting the hitter away.

That is the diffrence. Top of the rotation are able to put guys away when they are ahead of the count. I believe you are valuing Jeff too much based off of his raw stuff vs on his ability to battle a hitter.

Look stuff wise Maddux was not top ended. But he knew the hitters and beat them. He made hitter hit the ball where he wanted it to be hit. He did not give up walks which ties to he kept around the plate.

Stuff helps but it doesn't change these facts. Havering solid stuff hides lackings as a pitcher.

 

[SilenceS]

They regressed because of the IF positioning and scouting of the Cubs to pitch into hitters weak areas. That is on Bosio. This was gone over on Cubs.com and at the time Dale said that Jeff would at times let the AB get away from him instead of putting the hitter away.

That is the diffrence. Top of the rotation are able to put guys away when they are ahead of the count. I believe you are valuing Jeff too much based off of his raw stuff vs on his ability to battle a hitter.

Look stuff wise Maddux was not top ended. But he knew the hitters and beat them. He made hitter hit the ball where he wanted it to be hit. He did not give up walks which ties to he kept around the plate.

Stuff helps but it doesn't change these facts. Havering solid stuff hides lackings as a pitcher.

I give him leeway because I don't consider him a 28 year old pitcher. I consider him a 24 to 25 year old pitcher who still is figuring how to pitch. He has been a starter for 2 years. Im willing to give him until his arbitration is up before I judge him. These are major league hitters. You have to learn the fine nuisances and it takes longer then 2 years as a full time starter.

 

[CSF77]

The thing is he is asking for a lot and he took a step back. What he needed to do was what Wood did and this would have be a mute point

 

[wklink]

I understand what Silence is trying to say. Jeff may have the physical skills to be a number one pitcher but that really isn't saying much. The minor leagues are filled with pitchers that have number one caliber arms. Hell, the guy that teaches pitching to my high school son was one of those guys coming out of college. He never made it beyond AA ball, mostly due to what he calls his own inadequacies. An electric fastball might get you into the show but it won't keep you there.

The difference between a number 1 and a number 4 isn't necessarily arm strength or even ability to locate a pitch. The difference between a number 1 and a number 4 is the ability to use those pitches to dominate, especially in situations where things can go bad. Samardija has shown flashes of dominance but he doesn't sustain it. That seems, at least to me, more of an issue between the ears and less in the arm. Number one starters, as a general rule, are able to work through bad outings and still at least keep the game under control.

Jeff Samardzija is too Jeckle and Hyde to be a number one, although he has the physical ability. If you look at his games you find that the majority of the time he either gives up 0-2 runs in an outing or he gives up 5-9. The number of 'ok' outings, the six to seven inning outings where he gives up 3-4 runs are equal to the number of outings where he gives up five or more ERs, not a good ratio. I'm sorry but at this point in his career he should be starting to figure out how to keep the bad outings down. He is getting beyond the point of getting money based on potential and is now at the point where he needs to perform to get a good payday.

 

[SilenceS]

I understand what Silence is trying to say. Jeff may have the physical skills to be a number one pitcher but that really isn't saying much. The minor leagues are filled with pitchers that have number one caliber arms. Hell, the guy that teaches pitching to my high school son was one of those guys coming out of college. He never made it beyond AA ball, mostly due to what he calls his own inadequacies. An electric fastball might get you into the show but it won't keep you there.

The difference between a number 1 and a number 4 isn't necessarily arm strength or even ability to locate a pitch. The difference between a number 1 and a number 4 is the ability to use those pitches to dominate, especially in situations where things can go bad. Samardija has shown flashes of dominance but he doesn't sustain it. That seems, at least to me, more of an issue between the ears and less in the arm. Number one starters, as a general rule, are able to work through bad outings and still at least keep the game under control.

Jeff Samardzija is too Jeckle and Hyde to be a number one, although he has the physical ability. If you look at his games you find that the majority of the time he either gives up 0-2 runs in an outing or he gives up 5-9. The number of 'ok' outings, the six to seven inning outings where he gives up 3-4 runs are equal to the number of outings where he gives up five or more ERs, not a good ratio. I'm sorry but at this point in his career he should be starting to figure out how to keep the bad outings down. He is getting beyond the point of getting money based on potential and is now at the point where he needs to perform to get a good payday.

I think it comes down to this year. This would be the year I expect him to put it together. It actually shows how far he has come. People wanted him cut from the team and now he is not living up to expectations as a number 1. I don't think he is a 4 because he is built for 200 plus innings a year, but I think he would be a 3 or a 4 if he is on a really good staff. He isn't a buster, but he hasn't gotten to where he could be. Its this season or he will lose that status of being on the brink. Lets see it run its course. Its not like we are going anywhere next year.

 

[wklink]

I give him leeway because I don't consider him a 28 year old pitcher. I consider him a 24 to 25 year old pitcher who still is figuring how to pitch. He has been a starter for 2 years. Im willing to give him until his arbitration is up before I judge him. These are major league hitters. You have to learn the fine nuisances and it takes longer then 2 years as a full time starter.

I would buy that except that the Majors are filled with guys that are a lot younger than Jeff but have figured out how to pitch in much less time. Samardzija may have the arm of a 25 year old since he played football in college (although he also played baseball) but he has had plenty of time in the minors and majors to figure this out. Jeff has faces major league hitters since 2008. He has started for two years. Felix Hernandez after five years had an ERA of 2.49 and a 19 wins. Lincicum's ERA was 2.74 in his fifth year. Halliday: 2.93. Hernandez and Halliday didn't play college ball but Lincicum did. If anything playing college should have led to more maturity on Jeff's part but it hasn't improved his game.

I wouldn't offer him more than 5mil a year the way he pitches now. There are plenty of 4.5ERA guys out there. I am sure that we have a couple of those in AAA at this time. If we are going to spend Number 1 money on a guy we had better be sure he can be a number 1 pitcher. He hasn't shown that yet, no matter what his potential talent is. He should know how to pitch at this point, true number ones have figured it out after five years in the majors.

 

[wklink]

I think it comes down to this year. This would be the year I expect him to put it together. It actually shows how far he has come. People wanted him cut from the team and now he is not living up to expectations as a number 1. I don't think he is a 4 because he is built for 200 plus innings a year, but I think he would be a 3 or a 4 if he is on a really good staff. He isn't a buster, but he hasn't gotten to where he could be. Its this season or he will lose that status of being on the brink. Lets see it run its course. Its not like we are going anywhere next year.

No arguement there. He is a talented pitcher, he just isn't impressing me as a guy you build a pitching staff around. We already tried this once with Carlos Zambrano, another talented but very streaky pitcher and we all saw how that turned out. A true number 1 pitcher is a guy that the other team fears facing. I don't see teams quaking in their spikes when they realize Jeff Samarzija is scheduled to pitch against them.

 

[beckdawg]

I think it comes down to this year. This would be the year I expect him to put it together. It actually shows how far he has come. People wanted him cut from the team and now he is not living up to expectations as a number 1. I don't think he is a 4 because he is built for 200 plus innings a year, but I think he would be a 3 or a 4 if he is on a really good staff. He isn't a buster, but he hasn't gotten to where he could be. Its this season or he will lose that status of being on the brink. Lets see it run its course. Its not like we are going anywhere next year.

Honestly, unless he comes out and is dominate next year I'd expect the cubs to entertain trade offers at next years deadline. I also wouldn't be shocked to see him traded this offseason if they can get the required haul you would expect. Pitching is pretty weak this off season. An argument could be made that he is comparable to Garza who likely will be the top pitcher on the market. Garza will almost certainly get a qualifying offer as well. When you add that into the equation, giving up a top 5 prospect in your system with say a top 10 and a top 15 for Shark doesn't really seem that unreasonable.

 

[SilenceS]

Honestly, unless he comes out and is dominate next year I'd expect the cubs to entertain trade offers at next years deadline. I also wouldn't be shocked to see him traded this offseason if they can get the required haul you would expect. Pitching is pretty weak this off season. An argument could be made that he is comparable to Garza who likely will be the top pitcher on the market. Garza will almost certainly get a qualifying offer as well. When you add that into the equation, giving up a top 5 prospect in your system with say a top 10 and a top 15 for Shark doesn't really seem that unreasonable.

I know the Cubs this season were looking for sky high offers. Im not opposed to trading if the package is right, but it has to be right. The Cubs are to thin at pitching to make a mistake in tradin one.

 

[SilenceS]

I would buy that except that the Majors are filled with guys that are a lot younger than Jeff but have figured out how to pitch in much less time. Samardzija may have the arm of a 25 year old since he played football in college (although he also played baseball) but he has had plenty of time in the minors and majors to figure this out. Jeff has faces major league hitters since 2008. He has started for two years. Felix Hernandez after five years had an ERA of 2.49 and a 19 wins. Lincicum's ERA was 2.74 in his fifth year. Halliday: 2.93. Hernandez and Halliday didn't play college ball but Lincicum did. If anything playing college should have led to more maturity on Jeff's part but it hasn't improved his game.

I wouldn't offer him more than 5mil a year the way he pitches now. There are plenty of 4.5ERA guys out there. I am sure that we have a couple of those in AAA at this time. If we are going to spend Number 1 money on a guy we had better be sure he can be a number 1 pitcher. He hasn't shown that yet, no matter what his potential talent is. He should know how to pitch at this point, true number ones have figured it out after five years in the majors.

His peripherals are much better then people think. He had some bad luck mixed in with being on a bad team mixed in with not consistent pitching. The Cubs have no one in the minors above A ball who could touch Shark. 5 million is way to low. Edwin Jackson got a 4 year 52 million dollar deal and Shark is better then him now. Also, Shark hasn't been a starter for those 5 years. Being in the bullpen is totally different animal then being a starter. Like I said, this year is the telling year. I think people have gotten to jumpy about some of these players. Baseball is a game of ups and downs. People seem to get to high and to down to quickly. One year doesn't make a player.

 

[Icculus]

No his ceiling is a 1. People act like his ceiling isn't a 1. It is but no telling if he ever gets there. So, are you high?

You're confusing high with stupid.