LOL At Jeff Samardzija.

[brett05]

Jeff is not an AL pitcher

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[SilenceS]

:elephant:

Jeff is not an AL pitcher

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[patg006]

However, if Samardzija were to interest the Angels, I could potentially see them creating a package centered around Peter Bourjos and maybe a few young pitchers like Nick Maronde or R.J. Alvarez. Nice power arms with higher floors and a cheap centerfielder who excels at defense, base running and making contact. I wouldn't mind a trade like that.

They're shopping Trumbo and Bourjos for pitching-- and Trumbo, who would be better in the NL, play RF instead of Scheirholtz, and hits left handed pitching; something the cubs can't do. And he's bad in the OF? 5 career OF errors in 140 games playing in LF and RF whereas he's got 18 career errors in 250 games at 1st, and only 5 errors in 60 games at 3rd.

He's Pat Burrell 2.0; he's 27 going on 28, brings pop--something the cubs lack, hits left handed pitching, something the cubs lack. He also can drive in runs, something the cubs lack. He also is more of a 4th hitter in this line up than anyone else is. I'd ask LAA to throw in a pitching prospect or two like Mike Clevenger, who's expected to come up in 2014. RJ Alvarez looks good too.....Maronde as well. Maronde, Clevenger and Trumbo for Shark and Barney.

 

[beckdawg]

They're shopping Trumbo and Bourjos for pitching-- and Trumbo, who would be better in the NL, play RF instead of Scheirholtz, and hits left handed pitching; something the cubs can't do. And he's bad in the OF? 5 career OF errors in 140 games playing in LF and RF whereas he's got 18 career errors in 250 games at 1st, and only 5 errors in 60 games at 3rd.

He's Pat Burrell 2.0; he's 27 going on 28, brings pop--something the cubs lack, hits left handed pitching, something the cubs lack. He also can drive in runs, something the cubs lack. He also is more of a 4th hitter in this line up than anyone else is. I'd ask LAA to throw in a pitching prospect or two like Mike Clevenger, who's expected to come up in 2014. RJ Alvarez looks good too.....Maronde as well. Maronde, Clevenger and Trumbo for Shark and Barney.

Lack of errors don't exactly equate to a good defender. His UZR 150 in RF was -12.0 runs below average. He was better at the less demanding LF but again, that's LF. As for the cubs needing pop, I honestly don't agree. Maybe next year they do but you're not building the team for 2014. You're building it for 2015+. And in the next 2-3 years you're going to have Rizzo who's a 25-30 HR guy, Baez and Bryant who both appear to be 30-35+ HR guys and Soler and Almora who could easily be 20+ HR types. They have more than enough in terms of power if these guys pan out. And if the main big prospects pan out in some form there's no where for him to play. You're talking Rizzo at 1B, Alcantara probably at 2B, Castro at SS, Baez probably at 3B, Bryant probably in RF/LF, Almora in CF and Soler in LF/RF.

Honestly I'd be more interested in Bourjos since there really isn't a clear cut lead off hitter in the works but not for Shark. If they deal Shark they really need to be getting back a quality arm. Nothing else really makes any sense because their offense appears to have guys slotted for every position if the prospects don't bomb. And that's before adding next year's draft and any potential FA signings. I just don't see the value of Trumbo. If they wanted a .300ish OBP guy who hits 30 HRs they could have kept Soriano.

 

[Boobaby1]

I don't see why the cubs would want Trumbo. His OBP is terrible. Ideally he'd be playing at 1B which is filled. He also can play 3B but again soon to be filled. He's not a particularly good OF.

The only thing I wish to see is if the Cubs do indeed trade Samardzija, I hope it is for more young arms because the organization is truly lacking in this department.

If the Cubs could nab Tanaka and trade Shark for some high-profiled prospect arms, the Cubs could IMO could sign Wood to an extension, and have the possibilities of Tanaka, Hendricks, Edwards, Johnson, Viscaino and other arms hopefully acquired in a Samardzija deal pushing guys like Arrieta and Jackson to perform.

As far as free agents go, they can re-sign Baker and maybe a Colby Lewis both to short deals for the starting staff, and by the time their contracts are up (or they get dealt to a contender), some youth could be hitting the scene.

 

[CSF77]

I wouldn't trade him until they have him replaced.

I believe the rotation set up that they were running of 2 LH and 3 RH starters was the right mix.

The problem is Rusin is not MLB talent. They need to replace him in the rotation before addressing Shark.

If they trade shark for more arms that leaves Wood, Jackson and Arreta in the rotation. Now Arretta, Wood and Jackson would be a great 3-4-5 but I do not expect them dumping 200 mil on a 1 and a 2 this off season.

 

[brett05]

They're shopping Trumbo and Bourjos for pitching--

and then you say:

I'd ask LAA to throw in a pitching prospect or two like Mike Clevenger, who's expected to come up in 2014. RJ Alvarez looks good too.....Maronde as well. Maronde, Clevenger and Trumbo for Shark and Barney.

They are looking for pitchign so they aren't trading any of the young guys away. Certainly not for Shark. Trumbo>Shark.

 

[beckdawg]

I wouldn't trade him until they have him replaced.

I believe the rotation set up that they were running of 2 LH and 3 RH starters was the right mix.

The problem is Rusin is not MLB talent. They need to replace him in the rotation before addressing Shark.

If they trade shark for more arms that leaves Wood, Jackson and Arreta in the rotation. Now Arretta, Wood and Jackson would be a great 3-4-5 but I do not expect them dumping 200 mil on a 1 and a 2 this off season.

Presumably you'd be replacing him with the return. For example, take the Garza trade from Tampa. Cubs sent Chris Archer, outfielder Brandon Guyer, catcher Robinson Chirinos, shortstop Hak-Ju Lee and outfielder Sam Fuld for Garza. I think that's a semi-fair comparison because both had 2 years til FA. Garza likely was a bit more valuable but if a team buys into Sharks potential it's not a stretch to imagine Shark being as good. In this trade, Archer essentially replaced Garza. Guyer, and Flud were throw in parts as far as I'm aware. Lee is fairly well thought of and I believe he should make some top 100 prospect lists. I know nothing about Chirinos so I'd assume he's another throw in type.

So, if the cubs trade Shark, I'd imagine they plan on getting an Archer type back who can in 2-3 years be ready for the majors preferably sooner. They would likely need a second big piece which I'd imagine would either be another pitcher or a catcher as both are lacking in minors(Castillo is fine but there's not much organizational depth). Perhaps you could add a potential corner of type in. I view Bryant and Soler as the current future corner OFs with Almora in CF. After those two there aren't a ton of guys who jump out as being amazing players in the system and you could argue for Baez at 2B and Bryant at 3B which would again require another corner OF guy assuming Lake or Alcantara don't end up as starters.

 

[CSF77]

Presumably you'd be replacing him with the return. For example, take the Garza trade from Tampa. Cubs sent Chris Archer, outfielder Brandon Guyer, catcher Robinson Chirinos, shortstop Hak-Ju Lee and outfielder Sam Fuld for Garza. I think that's a semi-fair comparison because both had 2 years til FA. Garza likely was a bit more valuable but if a team buys into Sharks potential it's not a stretch to imagine Shark being as good. In this trade, Archer essentially replaced Garza. Guyer, and Flud were throw in parts as far as I'm aware. Lee is fairly well thought of and I believe he should make some top 100 prospect lists. I know nothing about Chirinos so I'd assume he's another throw in type.

So, if the cubs trade Shark, I'd imagine they plan on getting an Archer type back who can in 2-3 years be ready for the majors preferably sooner. They would likely need a second big piece which I'd imagine would either be another pitcher or a catcher as both are lacking in minors(Castillo is fine but there's not much organizational depth). Perhaps you could add a potential corner of type in. I view Bryant and Soler as the current future corner OFs with Almora in CF. After those two there aren't a ton of guys who jump out as being amazing players in the system and you could argue for Baez at 2B and Bryant at 3B which would again require another corner OF guy assuming Lake or Alcantara don't end up as starters.

They would still have to replace Rusin in the rotation.

A team like Azl would be a good match up because they would want to match Miley and Shark together as 1/2.

In a deal like that I would want Tyler Skaggs in return.


Also on the Garza deal Archer was in AA and not a sure thing. Lee should be the best prospect out of the bunch and should be ready this year. Rest were fringe types and even top 100. Reason there were so many was because the Cubs prospects at that time were bad.

 

[beckdawg]

They would still have to replace Rusin in the rotation.

A team like Azl would be a good match up because they would want to match Miley and Shark together as 1/2.

In a deal like that I would want Tyler Skaggs in return.


Also on the Garza deal Archer was in AA and not a sure thing. Lee should be the best prospect out of the bunch and should be ready this year. Rest were fringe types and even top 100. Reason there were so many was because the Cubs prospects at that time were bad.

Archer was fairly well regarded but you're right he wasnt a top 100 type. That being said, he probably projected as a potential middle of the rotation guy if memory serves me. As for Rusin, I think that's sort of a separate issue. But as far as addressing it, They have Arrieta, Wood and Jackson who seem to be part of the semi-long term plans(3-4 years). So, really you're looking at replacing 1-2 starters. I've said for awhile now that I've been in favor of signing Haren. He could fill space until younger guys are ready. And then presumably you could go after Tanaka as well.

 

[dabynsky]

Archer was fairly well regarded but you're right he wasnt a top 100 type. That being said, he probably projected as a potential middle of the rotation guy if memory serves me. As for Rusin, I think that's sort of a separate issue. But as far as addressing it, They have Arrieta, Wood and Jackson who seem to be part of the semi-long term plans(3-4 years). So, really you're looking at replacing 1-2 starters. I've said for awhile now that I've been in favor of signing Haren. He could fill space until younger guys are ready. And then presumably you could go after Tanaka as well.

Chris Archer was the 27th rated prospect in baseball prior to being dealt for Garza. He dropped to 89 the following year when his command issues resurfaced in 2011, but heading into this year he was the 36th rated prospect. Archer was very well thought of prior to being dealt.

 

[beckdawg]

Chris Archer was the 27th rated prospect in baseball prior to being dealt for Garza. He dropped to 89 the following year when his command issues resurfaced in 2011, but heading into this year he was the 36th rated prospect. Archer was very well thought of prior to being dealt.

Ah... well i honestly didn't remember that well but like I said I agreed with the point that he was a probably projected as a #2-3 starter.

 

[CSF77]

side note Garza was more accomplished at the point of his trade. Shark has not even won 10 games yet. The only thing going for him is perceived value and low wear and tear on his arm.

There is a reason why they are not just paying his demands. They are not justified.

 

[justaChifan]

side note Garza was more accomplished at the point of his trade. Shark has not even won 10 games yet. The only thing going for him is perceived value and low wear and tear on his arm.

There is a reason why they are not just paying his demands. They are not justified.

________________________________________________________________________________
Samardzija has pitched pretty well.
He hasn't won 10 games yet? Don't you think the bullpen had a say in the fact he hasn't reached 10 yet?
I don't know if he's worth what he wants. Maybe he wants out.
Not everyone wants to sign a team friendly deal to play for a Cub team in the middle of a BUILD.

 

[beckdawg]

side note Garza was more accomplished at the point of his trade. Shark has not even won 10 games yet. The only thing going for him is perceived value and low wear and tear on his arm.

There is a reason why they are not just paying his demands. They are not justified.

I acknowledged that. I'm just saying that if enough teams buy into the potential Shark has it really shouldn't matter. As SilenceS has argued, he very well could end up being an ace type pitcher. He has the stuff. He's not there yet and may never be given his age but next year he could come out and be a cy young pitcher. And if enough teams view him that way they can play them against each other and get loads in return. On the other hand, if they only have 1 interested person and they feel they have to trade in the off season vs the trade deadline you may end up with less than you'd hope.

 

[CSF77]

Like I said I would want a guy like Skaggs in return. A perfect trade would be Delgadio and Skaggs for Shark and maybe a quality A ball pitcher. Considering the quality of the 2 coming over it is worth it. 1 RH and 1 LH that could end up becoming 1-2 quality.

That would be a solid return.

If it was just fringe stuff I would hold him for the year and try to ink Scott Kazmire on a 2 year 14 mil deal. This gives a solid S/O combo at the top of the order with some potential for more.

I'd be fine either way.

 

[CSF77]

My problem with ranking Archers value on his top 100 ranking is because he was a AA level pitcher. AA is no guarantee that he will become a major league talent. Now if he was ranked 27 and he was in AAA and had some MLB exposure. Success or not then that 27 rank means more. Because that is a pitcher that impacts the team now vs a chance at making it.

You look at it Garza netted a A league SS and a AA pitcher that may have ended up in the pen at best. The returns did not impact the Cubs in any way. TB took a gamble in it.

I would want MLB ready returns. They have plenty of dice roll pitching going on.

 

[beckdawg]

I would want MLB ready returns. They have plenty of dice roll pitching going on.

Don't really see that happening. If they are MLB ready then why do you need Shark in the first place? I think you really should be targeting people who are 2-3 years away which fits in with the prospects they have timeline wise. Anyways, earlier in the thread I listed people I thought made sense so I'm not going to get into my thoughts again but I don't really see them getting a prospect who's MLB ready.

 

[Boobaby1]

Who knows where Shark would rank or how good he would be on a good team?

Put him on the Cardinals for example and I bet his numbers go through the roof.

 

[beckdawg]

http://www.chicagonow.com/cubs-den/...traded-this-offseason-what-would-he-be-worth/

We hear a few teams could be interested in Samardzija. They include Arizona (who inquired about him last year), Toronto, Pittsburgh, Washington and Kansas City.

I dunno if this is speculation on the authors part of if there are legit sources here but I find it interesting that a mentioned a number of these same teams earlier in the thread.