Losing Interest?

[The Hawk]

This post is filled with so much wrong, I don't even know where to begin.

That is because you cannot see beyond the nose of your face and what you do manage to see, you cannot begin to comprehend.

 

[Enasic]

His 2-pt% is 39% which is terrible. His 3-pt% is 21% which is also terrible. His FT% is pretty good but he's only getting 3 attempts per game which is pretty bad. His defense has been mediocre. However, he is a viable scoring option when guarded one-on-one. And because of that, he's had a few games with nice scoring output. He's been an above average facilitating point guard so far as well. All in all, he's been nowhere near the elite level but also clearly better than the bottom third of other starting point guards.

Better than the bottom third is pretty damned bad and I actually think he may be worse than that. His efficiency is laughably bad and without taking a look at his turnovers I'm willing to bet they're pretty high for the 6 assists he gets you. Either way, I don't care to argue the extent of roses ineptitude. The bottom line is if he doesn't play significantly better, this team has no shot of advancing far.

 

[Enasic]

I think that Chicago fans over-all are very good fans. Personally I think that basketball players, as a group of athletes are more spoiled and obnoxious than any other athlete in the US.. So they think about things like the weather. But think about this. Once Jordan, Pippin, and Jackson left, they talked a lot about Krumbs Krause and Reinny in a very negative way. I think that started things off pretty negatively with their peer group as in you will be not treated well by management with Chicago. I still think that is the word about Reinny right now.

Agreed.

 

[Crystallas]

Well in that case I would lean towards the team that had the best chance of winning. Lastly, the determine factor 99.9999% of the time is $$$ and not patient fans. That's why melo signed in Ny despite the fan base wanting to kill him.

What? I think you're answering an entirely different question.

 

[Enasic]

What? I think you're answering an entirely different question.

You're trying to get me to answer a question that holds little to no weight. Would players prefer patient and sympathetic fans? Sure. The issue is , that does not sway their decisions. It's so insignificant I'm not sure why you're asking it. Money, winning, and night life are the deciding factors. Players are smart enough to know that not every fan in the city will love them anyway. Really, I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Better than the bottom third is pretty damned bad and I actually think he may be worse than that. His efficiency is laughably bad and without taking a look at his turnovers I'm willing to bet they're pretty high for the 6 assists he gets you. Either way, I don't care to argue the extent of roses ineptitude. The bottom line is if he doesn't play significantly better, this team has no shot of advancing far.

Better than the bottom third of starters and better than essentially all 30 or so bench players at his position. So mediocre is a better word to me than terrible. I think there's a good chance Rose will get better. We've definitely seen flashes of him playing very well. Let the time table play out for his healing and we'll know better by then.

 

[Enasic]

Better than the bottom third of starters and better than essentially all 30 or so bench players at his position. So mediocre is a better word to me than terrible. I think there's a good chance Rose will get better. We've definitely seen flashes of him playing very well. Let the time table play out for his healing and we'll know better by then.

We shall see.

 

[Crystallas]

You're trying to get me to answer a question that holds little to no weight. Would players prefer patient and sympathetic fans? Sure. The issue is , that does not sway their decisions. It's so insignificant I'm not sure why you're asking it. Money, winning, and night life are the deciding factors. Players are smart enough to know that not every fan in the city will love them anyway. Really, I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.

It's very significant and has been demonstrated to be significant.
Would you rather take a job where you are appreciated or not? You can still win and have other things in any scenario, so other variables still exist regardless of the point. Would you play harder for HOME fans that love you or hate you? That is really the question. And in a league where every city can sell itself on wanting to win, the fans are going to be a significant factor when making a decision. Just like the number of players who have written on leaving good teams for other cities just because they felt the focus was no longer about the sport, but now some personal vendetta filled with constant annoying life threats against them and their family.

The fact of the matter is, a performer will give more effort to an audience that appreciates them, than one that doesn't, regardless of all other variables that can be used to distort the central point.

 

[Benchmob757]

Better than the bottom third of starters and better than essentially all 30 or so bench players at his position. So mediocre is a better word to me than terrible. I think there's a good chance Rose will get better. We've definitely seen flashes of him playing very well. Let the time table play out for his healing and we'll know better by then.

4 years ago if someone told us we'd be comparing Rose to the bottom third of starters and/or bench players, we would have shamed them mercilessly.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Enasic]

It's very significant and has been demonstrated to be significant.
Would you rather take a job where you are appreciated or not? You can still win and have other things in any scenario, so other variables still exist regardless of the point. Would you play harder for HOME fans that love you or hate you? That is really the question. And in a league where every city can sell itself on wanting to win, the fans are going to be a significant factor when making a decision. Just like the number of players who have written on leaving good teams for other cities just because they felt the focus was no longer about the sport, but now some personal vendetta filled with constant annoying life threats against them and their family.

The fact of the matter is, a performer will give more effort to an audience that appreciates them, than one that doesn't, regardless of all other variables that can be used to distort the central point.

Honestly I wouldn't want a player on the team that plays less hard for his perceived fan displeasure. Not only is that a loser but he's letting the fans he does have down. If such a player exists they could look in the mirror and see why fans aren't cheering for them. That's because they would be a loser and a quitter. Fans just don't not like someone for no reason. What a weak minded attitude to have. They're getting paid millions and have a job to do despite if a handful of people "don't like them." That's embarrassingly pathetic.

Furthermore, how could you look your teammates and coaches in the eye? Are you going to explain to them you're not playing as hard because some fans don't like you? My goodness...I sure hope professional athletes with a passion for the game and their teammates don't behave that way. If so, they deserve to be bood out of the city.

 

[Crystallas]

Honestly I wouldn't want a player on the team that plays less hard for his perceived fan displeasure. Not only is that a loser but he's letting the fans he does have down. If such a player exists they could look in the mirror and see why fans aren't cheering for them. That's because they would be a loser and a quitter. Fans just don't not like someone for no reason. What a weak minded attitude to have. They're getting paid millions and have a job to do despite if a handful of people "don't like them." That's embarrassingly pathetic.

Furthermore, how could you look your teammates and coaches in the eye? Are you going to explain to them you're not playing as hard because some fans don't like you? My goodness...I sure hope professional athletes with a passion for the game and their teammates don't behave that way. If so, they deserve to be bood out of the city.

Since all variables are equal, you wind up with a smaller pool of players. The "loser" in your words still goes to other teams and wins awards and titles. This is not even my opinion, just how the world works. That's fine, if this is what you want. But no matter how it's spun, any person who feels unappreciated will perform less even if you give them a billion dollar contract and every excuse to be happy, money still doesn't buy happiness.

 

[Enasic]

Since all variables are equal, you wind up with a smaller pool of players. The "loser" in your words still goes to other teams and wins awards and titles. This is not even my opinion, just how the world works. That's fine, if this is what you want. But no matter how it's spun, any person who feels unappreciated will perform less even if you give them a billion dollar contract and every excuse to be happy, money still doesn't buy happiness.

Fair enough. I still maintain that if a player does his job and doesn't say idiotic things he'll have no problems with fans. Furthermore, a true competitor would never not play as hard because of fans displeasure. You think MJ or Kobe would slack? They made fans that hated them become fans. You can't compare the NBA to "real world." They're vastly different. Either way, our opinions differ. That's fine.

 

[Crystallas]

Fair enough. I still maintain that if a player does his job and doesn't say idiotic things he'll have no problems with fans. Furthermore, a true competitor would never not play as hard because of fans displeasure. You think MJ or Kobe would slack? They made fans that hated them become fans. You can't compare the NBA to "real world." They're vastly different. Either way, our opinions differ. That's fine.

The problem is unjust criticism. To put it into context, the movie Office Space made this a running joke(Memo on the TPS reports). The person made one mistake, yet, because of how their system dealt with critique, they had to hear about it over and over again. It's not loser mentality, it's real world, and that DOES apply to the NBA or anywhere. Treat a 19 year old player, a 29 year old player, or a 50 year old coach like shit over mistakes(which are going to be made, made by MJ and every great ever) poorly, they will be demotivated. It's not an opinion.

If the criticism is just, meaning close to a 1:1 reaction to the action, and if that individual can't handle the reaction, yes, they are some kind of mental midget. But in Chicago, we like to pile it onto players for years and treat our players like shit, even after winning major awards and championships after they had a streak of bad luck. All because our tiny brains can't process everything they are going through, and instantly take the low road to make it an opportunity to kick someone while they are down. Otherwise we may be called a homer or meatball for reacting proportionately.

Milk those criticisms forever, that really helps make teams better. Or a better way to say it, is that some fans want to constantly kick players while they are down, therefore their reasoning is that they only want players that can handle it. Shit, even worse, an excuse to harp on a player infinitely, because they said something stupid. LOL! So the justification to why they are a bad player on the court is because they said something that could be perceived as stupid to a journalist in an era where sensationalism means to selectively spin words out of context as reporting. Allllllrightythen. If I were Jordan, I'd leave shithole fans. But Jordan was treated like royalty from day 1, even when he made mistakes, the home team criticism was close to a 1:1 reaction, it wasn't some bologna that lingered for seasons just to bust his balls.

 

[The Hawk]

It's very significant and has been demonstrated to be significant.
Would you rather take a job where you are appreciated or not? You can still win and have other things in any scenario, so other variables still exist regardless of the point. Would you play harder for HOME fans that love you or hate you? That is really the question. And in a league where every city can sell itself on wanting to win, the fans are going to be a significant factor when making a decision. Just like the number of players who have written on leaving good teams for other cities just because they felt the focus was no longer about the sport, but now some personal vendetta filled with constant annoying life threats against them and their family.

The fact of the matter is, a performer will give more effort to an audience that appreciates them, than one that doesn't, regardless of all other variables that can be used to distort the central point.

I really don't see fan appreciation affecting how a guy plays very much on a game in and game out basis. Sure, no one likes to get booed but getting booed can actually piss someone off so that he actually plays better. The overwhelming thing in any players mind is COMPETING as in beating whoever he is assigned to or guarding or trying to score against. I think that the elite player is any player who makes it to the highest league in any sport. They all have been greatly successful in their entire career and ave achieved greatly. It has nothing to do with fan recognition or even money. Those are the rewards for being so good in their profession.

The other thing is that I do not believe we as mere mortals can compare our profession or job to that of a pro athlete. We have pretty much nothing in common with them all the way around.

 

[Crystallas]

I really don't see fan appreciation affecting how a guy plays very much on a game in and game out basis.

I'm aware. Many don't see it. Which is why I'm attempting to put something that factually exists and is not just opinion into some sort of context to help rethink things a bit. Read the response above yours from me(73) to see how I elaborate.

 

[The Hawk]

Since all variables are equal, you wind up with a smaller pool of players. The "loser" in your words still goes to other teams and wins awards and titles. This is not even my opinion, just how the world works. That's fine, if this is what you want. But no matter how it's spun, any person who feels unappreciated will perform less even if you give them a billion dollar contract and every excuse to be happy, money still doesn't buy happiness.

I, for one, do not believe that not being appreciated has much influence on a professional athlete. Especially by fans. Now, if your boss doesn't appreciate you, then that is something else. A whole lot of fans hated Dennis Rodman, for example. and even some of his teammates hated him also. Did that influence Dennis Rodman's in a negative way? Of course not. Rodman wanted to compete and dominate the other guy. And he also cared what his head coach thought about what his value to the team was. I do not even think that money was any real kind of motivator for him.

 

[Crystallas]

I, for one, do not believe that not being appreciated has much influence on a professional athlete. Especially by fans. Now, if your boss doesn't appreciate you, then that is something else. A whole lot of fans hated Dennis Rodman, for example. and even some of his teammates hated him also. Did that influence Dennis Rodman's in a negative way? Of course not. Rodman wanted to compete and dominate the other guy. And he also cared what his head coach thought about what his value to the team was. I do not even think that money was any real kind of motivator for him.

Rodman is a good example and I remember all that very well pre-Bulls, along with his story being well documented. The fans were stoked about him in Chicago, not so much in San Antonio. His issues ran so much deeper playing for the Spurs, who also had a much smaller fanbase at that time, so the echoes were nowhere near as loud in San Antonio either compared to a place like Chicago where we had the largest fanbase of all of the NBA maybe all of sports in the world at that time. Still this is a cherry picked example, and yet proves the point even further).

 

[The Hawk]

The problem is unjust criticism. To put it into context, the movie Office Space made this a running joke(Memo on the TPS reports). The person made one mistake, yet, because of how their system dealt with critique, they had to hear about it over and over again. It's not loser mentality, it's real world, and that DOES apply to the NBA or anywhere. Treat a 19 year old player, a 29 year old player, or a 50 year old coach like shit over mistakes(which are going to be made, made by MJ and every great ever) poorly, they will be demotivated. It's not an opinion.

If the criticism is just, meaning close to a 1:1 reaction to the action, and if that individual can't handle the reaction, yes, they are some kind of mental midget. But in Chicago, we like to pile it onto players for years and treat our players like shit, even after winning major awards and championships after they had a streak of bad luck. All because our tiny brains can't process everything they are going through, and instantly take the low road to make it an opportunity to kick someone while they are down. Otherwise we may be called a homer or meatball for reacting proportionately.

Milk those criticisms forever, that really helps make teams better. Or a better way to say it, is that some fans want to constantly kick players while they are down, therefore their reasoning is that they only want players that can handle it. Shit, even worse, an excuse to harp on a player infinitely, because they said something stupid. LOL! So the justification to why they are a bad player on the court is because they said something that could be perceived as stupid to a journalist in an era where sensationalism means to selectively spin words out of context as reporting. Allllllrightythen. If I were Jordan, I'd leave shithole fans. But Jordan was treated like royalty from day 1, even when he made mistakes, the home team criticism was close to a 1:1 reaction, it wasn't some bologna that lingered for seasons just to bust his balls.

I just do not get the fact that you seem to think that Chicago fans treat their team's players badly??? Do you think that any fan should not boo a player or a team that is playing like shit? I just do not get the seemingly adoration that you expect from Chicago fans and that Chicago fans treat its teams players "like shit"? I think the exact opposite. To me, if a guy just doesn't make an ass-hole of himself and works hard, then he will be treated pretty good by the fans and the good players can get glorified by them

 

[clonetrooper264]

Kirk didn't say anything dumb and worked his butt off and still got plenty of hate from fans because his play wasn't all that great. :shrug:

 

[The Hawk]

I'm aware. Many don't see it. Which is why I'm attempting to put something that factually exists and is not just opinion into some sort of context to help rethink things a bit. Read the response above yours from me(73) to see how I elaborate.

Where is your proof of something that exists in the sports world. And please do not try and equate what a premium athlete does as to motivation versus what a person working a 9 to 5 job because they are not anywhere nearly related. And I do have definite experience about what can happen to under=appreciated people in the work-force.