Losing Interest?

[Crystallas]

Kirk didn't say anything dumb and worked his butt off and still got plenty of hate from fans because his play wasn't all that great. :shrug:

Kirk was the punching bag for so many problems. If he plays like shit, then people could say shit about him if they wanted to. That is fair. Now, Kirk being faulted for Paxson not resigning Ben Gordon? Uhhhhh... Yep that happened and those fans tried to back pedal later when it was pointed out. Kirk being faulted with getting a starting position and a lot of minutes on vets bench salary? Funny thing is, he was faulted for his salary, when the same people that fault him, also have this double standard that players should take what they can get. So which was it? Nerp, logic doesn't matter anymore. just need excuses to hate on Kirk. Because some fans defended Kirk, that also meant that Kirk should go under the constant microscope. Seriously, that is what happened. And Bulls fans make a habit out of it. Team doesn't sign LeBron, they blame Boozer, who also wasn't all that good, but he was nowhere near as bad as the fans made him out to be. Statler and Waldorf wanabees everywhere.

 

[The Hawk]

Rodman is a good example and I remember all that very well pre-Bulls, along with his story being well documented. The fans were stoked about him in Chicago, not so much in San Antonio. His issues ran so much deeper playing for the Spurs, who also had a much smaller fanbase at that time, so the echoes were nowhere near as loud in San Antonio either compared to a place like Chicago where we had the largest fanbase of all of the NBA maybe all of sports in the world at that time. Still this is a cherry picked example, and yet proves the point even further).

We were talking about motivation and recognition were we not? Do you think Rodman cared much for fan support? Don't forget he was a big time member of the Bad Boys in Detroit. Think those guys cared about being appreciated? They loved being the bad boys, Rodman included. And as for San Antonio, the fans didn't like him because he didn't fit into what the coach's system was more than anything else.

 

[The Hawk]

Kirk didn't say anything dumb and worked his butt off and still got plenty of hate from fans because his play wasn't all that great. :shrug:

I don't think Kirk got any hate from Chicago fans. IF anything it went the other way as in over-valuing the guy. Personally I am very critical of Garfield and friend for not replacing the guy with someone much better. It has nothing to do with Kirk himself. He just is not a good NBA player and hasn't been for years.

 

[clonetrooper264]

Rodman only cared about what a select few thought of him, but not everyone is like that. A lot of people care about what the masses think of them.

 

[clonetrooper264]

I don't think Kirk got any hate from Chicago fans. IF anything it went the other way as in over-valuing the guy. Personally I am very critical of Garfield and friend for not replacing the guy with someone much better. It has nothing to do with Kirk himself. He just is not a good NBA player and hasn't been for years.

You must not have been paying attention from 2007-2010...and 2013. A lot of hate.

 

[Crystallas]

Where is your proof of something that exists in the sports world. And please do not try and equate what a premium athlete does as to motivation versus what a person working a 9 to 5 job because they are not anywhere nearly related. And I do have definite experience about what can happen to under=appreciated people in the work-force.

I never used the term premium athlete. What the hell is a premium athlete? In a league with nonathletic but successful players, does that mean you want me to demonstrate proof of something only to part of the league? Because you're giving me terms that were not in my claims. Also, you are arguing some other point than my own, which was made clear in an early response(here I'll answer with a very simple and direct question. Not a trick question, not a gotcha question, so please don't giver me back some change of focus or conditional answer either.)

If all things are equal(meaning, same chance of winning, approximately the same money, same or similar team role) in a competitive market, why is a player going to choose playing for a fanbase that doesn't appreciate them over a fanbase that does?

Seems to me that that people who have established a long history of being ***** and moaners here(including some with deep seeded agendas) have a very hard time answering this question directly.

 

[Crystallas]

We were talking about motivation and recognition were we not? Do you think Rodman cared much for fan support? Don't forget he was a big time member of the Bad Boys in Detroit. Think those guys cared about being appreciated? They loved being the bad boys, Rodman included. And as for San Antonio, the fans didn't like him because he didn't fit into what the coach's system was more than anything else.

Detroit loved him as well. Not just the organization, but the fans. That was family to him, not just a job and paycheck. Like I said before, Rodman as an example still proves the point I made. He gave 100% for those who appreciated him and 90% for those who didn't(which still amounted to a lot of rebounds). That 10% matters.

 

[The Hawk]

Kirk was the punching bag for so many problems. If he plays like shit, then people could say shit about him if they wanted to. That is fair. Now, Kirk being faulted for Paxson not resigning Ben Gordon? Uhhhhh... Yep that happened and those fans tried to back pedal later when it was pointed out. Kirk being faulted with getting a starting position and a lot of minutes on vets bench salary? Funny thing is, he was faulted for his salary, when the same people that fault him, also have this double standard that players should take what they can get. So which was it? Nerp, logic doesn't matter anymore. just need excuses to hate on Kirk. Because some fans defended Kirk, that also meant that Kirk should go under the constant microscope. Seriously, that is what happened. And Bulls fans make a habit out of it. Team doesn't sign LeBron, they blame Boozer, who also wasn't all that good, but he was nowhere near as bad as the fans made him out to be. Statler and Waldorf wanabees everywhere.

Kirk is a basketball player being paid by a team. He is who he is and plays to the extent of his abilities just like most players do. He works hard and plays hard as player should do. . That is the truth of the player himself and has not a bit to do with the failure of the Bulls to replace a guy that is physically limited let alone not very talented in the first place. This is where you and I really differ. I blame Bulls management for its flagrant incompetence in building a championship roster and Hinrich just happens to be one of the examples of a guy who should not be on a championship team's roster. Only a fool would blame the player if he is playing to the extent of his ability. Now then, if a fan yells, "Hinrich sucks", he is really talking about a guy who an idiot put in a key position of the team and who can't do the job that it entails. That same fan should really yell...."Garfield sucks or Paxson sucks" because that is who really sucks.

 

[The Hawk]

Quote Originally Posted by The Hawk View Post
Where is your proof of something that exists in the sports world. And please do not try and equate what a premium athlete does as to motivation versus what a person working a 9 to 5 job because they are not anywhere nearly related. And I do have definite experience about what can happen to under=appreciated people in the work-force.

vvvvvvvv

I never used the term premium athlete. What the hell is a premium athlete? In a league with nonathletic but successful players, does that mean you want me to demonstrate proof of something only to part of the league? Because you're giving me terms that were not in my claims. Also, you are arguing some other point than my own, which was made clear in an early response(here I'll answer with a very simple and direct question. Not a trick question, not a gotcha question, so please don't giver me back some change of focus or conditional answer either.)

vvvvvvvvvv

No you didn't use the term premium athlete. I did. The reason that I did is because you are trying to equate premium athletes's motivation to motivation for regular folks in the workforce. You asked what the hell is a premium athlete? In my opinion every athlete who makes it to the NBA, NFL, MLB, et all is a premium athlete. These guys have proved their capability to be the BEST small group of players in their respective league. They are by far better at their profession than 99% of the ordinary workers in the business world and what motivate those workers is totally different from the pro athlete.

vvvvvvvvvvvv

If all things are equal(meaning, same chance of winning, approximately the same money, same or similar team role) in a competitive market, why is a player going to choose playing for a fanbase that doesn't appreciate them over a fanbase that does?

Seems to me that that people who have established a long history of being ***** and moaners here(including some with deep seeded agendas) have a very hard time answering this question directly.


vvvvvvvvvvv


Your premise is pretty shaky in its basis. You define the Chicago fanbase is an unappreciative one and that is not true as far as I am concerned. If it was unappreciative, the sell-outs and ticket prices that fans pay wouldn't be what they are. You, I guess, think that every fan who criticizes a player, a coach, an owner, a team is wrong and unappreciative. In other words, a Cub fans mentality

As for the Bitchers and moaners, as well as the "agenda" jibe, try escaping from your nirvana world sometime. Reality is what it is

 

[Novak]

If all things are equal(meaning, same chance of winning, approximately the same money, same or similar team role) in a competitive market, why is a player going to choose playing for a fanbase that doesn't appreciate them over a fanbase that does?

Seems to me that that people who have established a long history of being ***** and moaners here(including some with deep seeded agendas) have a very hard time answering this question directly.

There can be tons of reasons a player will choose city x over city y. Demographic is a huge deal to some, I'm sure. For example, some people don't like the cold winters that Chicago or New York offers. They can choose to enjoy a location closer to home, or warmer weather, and say **** all to what the fans have to say. It's petty and dumb but it does happen.

Also, Hawk... god damn man. The quote feature is so fucking simple to use. I don't understand why you struggle so much with it.

 

[Crystallas]

There can be tons of reasons a player will choose city x over city y. Demographic is a huge deal to some, I'm sure. For example, some people don't like the cold winters that Chicago or New York offers. They can choose to enjoy a location closer to home, or warmer weather, and say **** all to what the fans have to say. It's petty and dumb but it does happen.

Also, Hawk... god damn man. The quote feature is so fucking simple to use. I don't understand why you struggle so much with it.

Same demographic, same climate. That's why I underlined and bolded text. I swear, it's not a trick question.

 

[Crystallas]

And nailed it. Gave a direct question, The Hawk changed focus. As predicted.

:hawked:


You still have a chance to answer the question(as well as learn how to use the quote feature).

 

[Enasic]

We still talking about fan perception and how it effects athletes from signing with a particular team? Talk about losing interest....

 

[Crystallas]

Not perception. Constant unjust criticism.

 

[Novak]

Same demographic, same climate. That's why I underlined and bolded text. I swear, it's not a trick question.

If literally all things are equal then there isn't a logical explanation as to why someone would choose to play for unappreciative fans... unless they have some weird self-hate thing going on.

 

[Enasic]

Not perception. Constant unjust criticism.

"Constant unjust criticism"

Sounds very serious. If I were an athlete I'd make sure to sign anywhere but chicago to avoid this.

 

[Enasic]

I'd also avoid marriage

 

[Novak]

"Constant unjust criticism"

Sounds very serious. If I were an athlete I'd make sure to sign anywhere but chicago to avoid this.

I'd also avoid marriage

Don't ruin this thread like you ruined my Marshall thread..

 

[Crystallas]

If literally all things are equal then there isn't a logical explanation as to why someone would choose to play for unappreciative fans... unless they have some weird self-hate thing going on.

It's all part of this point that anyone who gains fame or fortune is all of a sudden better than me/you, therefore the only way I/you can live with ourselves is to knock them down as many pegs as possible. But really, if you want your team to win, I would think that using the method that gets results(encouragement) would be smarter than some realist charade of nonsensical criticism.

But fans are above criticism. *insert hyperbole rebuttal here* /sarcasm <-*edit* beat me to it.

 

[Enasic]

It's all part of this point that anyone who gains fame or fortune is all of a sudden better than me/you, therefore the only way I/you can live with ourselves is to knock them down as many pegs as possible. But really, if you want your team to win, I would think that using the method that gets results(encouragement) would be smarter than some realist charade of nonsensical criticism.

But fans are above criticism. *insert hyperbole rebuttal here* /sarcasm <-*edit* beat me to it.

I'm not sure if I understand. I should support and encourage an athlete that I don't know of have any contact with? By doing so, said athlete will start playing better? The magical powers of fans I guess. I guess I just never realized the powers we possess. Thus, by criticizing a player, said player will perform worse and not try as hard. Or am I missing something?