Mack trade retrospective

[Nelly]

I would only make the Mack trade for a future HOF player.

He is that.

The issue was the timing. Mitch sucked and we wasted 3 years of Mack’s prime figuring that out. If we had more clarity of how ass Mitch was going to be it would have made the trade more/less of a slam dunk.

That's just it. Nothing much more to say. Mack was required to make the defense superbowl ready. The problem was not him, it was that the QB wasn't superbowl ready. In isolation, Pace crushed the Mack trade.

 

[hyatt151]

If I spend $10,000 on a car that is only worth $5000, does it matter that the person I bought the car from took the $10,000 and lost it all at the Casino?

Exactly, Raiders lost the trade cumulative effect Raider Super bowls-0, Bears Super Bowls- 0

 

[remydat]

A real QB would have made a big difference but at the same time, Mack has been a part of some run of the mill defenses the last two years. Last season in particular. It’s not all on Mack, but when you give up that capital and $$ you would hope to see a better defense being led by a HoF player

Again nothing to do with Mack. At the end of the day, the question is whether he performed up to what we gave up. He has made 2 All Pro teams, 3 Pro Bowls, and been ranked 1st, 3rd, and 12th at edge overall. That is worth what we gave up. If the rest of the team hasn't capitalized on that more then that is on them not Mack.

 

[Da Coach]

Lol at the Loins fans... they couldn't find a sack if they looked between their legs

 

[shoez90]

I actually agree with this. You make a move like that for a final piece that leads to deep playoff runs or a franchise QB.

We pulled the trigger and won ZERO playoff games.

I'm in @Toast88 's second camp in post #12.

And no, it's not hindsight because I questioned the trade as it went down with "Pace has to be sure Trubisky is the guy."

he picks either of the two black QBs we are on top of North and playoff regulars with a great D and a potent offense. Instead we are the fukin bears ? masters of fukin up and snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. I love my bears but to think our shit doesn't stink is textbook narcissism. We are our own worse enemy. We are being dragged kicking and screaming into the modern Era of football. Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Rodgers are not rookies or flashes in the pan. We are always late to the dance just like when we tried to get Watson AFTER we actually coulda drafted the fukin guy! And Mahomes don't get me started on that. Those guys make shitty coaches look good and great coaches look like geniuses.

 

[Pegger]

I think this type of comparison misses two key parts, so it's not a pure apples to apples.

Looking at the players the Raiders took is nice, but I doubt the Bears would have taken the same guys. Maybe look at the 5 players taked at or after those picks. I'm not saying the Bears would draft the best one of the 5, but at least there's a range of what realistically could have happened.

The second piece is salary cap. Mack had a big cap number, so there would have been an extra $10-15M in cap space each season. That doesn't mean the Bears use that space in the best possible way, just that there would have been an extra 1-3 players on the roster or the team could have locked up someone that left in free agency.

 

[mattb78]

The Bears were a field goal doink away from a playoff win. It had been a 7 year drought since the Bears had last been in the playoffs. There was a sense of urgency in the organization to do something.

I don't think the goal was to win a superbowl or bust, I think it was to make the playoffs.

The last 3 years of football have been better than the last 7 in Chicago. Certainly everyone wants to do deeper in the playoffs, but I think getting Mack made the Bears a better team and to some degree energized the fan base who had been through a pretty rough period.

 

[EDPeezy]

You also cant judge the Mack trade based on the fact Trubs ends up sucking.

Those are 2 separate conversations if we applying your logic.

How is that applying his logic?

A trade can be judged the moment it’s made. Draft picks have an inherent value. It doesn’t matter who the Raiders took with those picks. It matters for their fans and for the franchise. It has no bearing on who won the trade though.

Under your guys logic nothing the Bears or Raiders do matters anyway because the fate of their franchises all goes back to that trade. You guys are the ones talking about overall records and stuff. Acting as if their destiny all traces back to one deal.

Draft picks are just lottery tickets. You’re acquiring lottery tickets with draft picks. It’s all about accumulating them and increasing your odds of hitting something.

 

[EDPeezy]

So if Mack gets injured his first game with the Bears and then retires, but the Bears go on to win the Super Bowl anyway. Raiders get 3 all pros with the picks the bears gave them but it doesn’t translate to wins. Who won the trade?

 

[Enasic]

Again nothing to do with Mack. At the end of the day, the question is whether he performed up to what we gave up. He has made 2 All Pro teams, 3 Pro Bowls, and been ranked 1st, 3rd, and 12th at edge overall. That is worth what we gave up. If the rest of the team hasn't capitalized on that more then that is on them not Mack.

Fair enough but ranking 12th overall at edge is a disappointment, even if only a PFF metric. He’s been very good but I think it’s fair to question if he’s been worth the draft capital and $$$

 

[remydat]

How is that applying his logic?

A trade can be judged the moment it’s made. Draft picks have an inherent value. It doesn’t matter who the Raiders took with those picks. It matters for their fans and for the franchise. It has no bearing on who won the trade though.

Under your guys logic nothing the Bears or Raiders do matters anyway because the fate of their franchises all goes back to that trade. You guys are the ones talking about overall records and stuff. Acting as if their destiny all traces back to one deal.

Draft picks are just lottery tickets. You’re acquiring lottery tickets with draft picks. It’s all about accumulating them and increasing your odds of hitting something.

You are confused. I never commented on the Raiders side of the trade. I simply was agreeing with him that you have to look at things separately. So what the Raiders did with the picks is separate from whether it was worth it for the Bears. And what the Bears did to build around Mack is irrelevant to whether Mack has produced commensurate with the value given up.

Who could we have reasonably drafted those 2 years that would be better value than Mack and Kmet is the question?

So if Mack gets injured his first game with the Bears and then retires, but the Bears go on to win the Super Bowl anyway. Raiders get 3 all pros with the picks the bears gave them but it doesn’t translate to wins. Who won the trade?

Obviously the Raiders as Mack was not relevant to the SB win.

 

[remydat]

Fair enough but ranking 12th overall at edge is a disappointment, even if only a PFF metric. He’s been very good but I think it’s fair to question if he’s been worth the draft capital and $$$

I guess you missed 1st, 3rd and 12th. 12th is not a disappointment when the other 2 years you were 1st and 3rd. It would be unreasonable to expect him to place in the top 5 every single year as few guys in the history of the NFL would do that.

In the past 3 years, only one guy has been top 5 on the DL or at Edge all 3 years. That is Aaron Donald. Only 2 guys have 2 top 5 finishes over that span. That is Mack and TJ Watt.

Wagner is the only ILB to do it twice. No CB has done it. Only Adams and Anthony Harris have done it twice at S.

So let's just grasp the implications of what you are suggesting. You are suggesting that despite being arguably the 2nd or 3rd best overall defender the past 3 years, he was not worth the trade. If that is the case then no one outside of Donald is.

If there is another way you wish to look at this then tell me who would be worth it in your book outside of Donald or Watt?

 

[iueyedoc]

Draft picks are just lottery tickets. You’re acquiring lottery tickets with draft picks. It’s all about accumulating them and increasing your odds of hitting something.

The trade is either good or bad the moment it’s made. What results from that is in many ways largely irrelevant.

The Raiders made the better move.

So by your logic, the trade having to be judged at it's inception date, trading a Grand Prize winning lottery ticket in Khalil Mack ( DPOY, 2X All Pro, 3 x Pro bowler at the time) and a 2nd rd pick, which statistically pays off very nearly as often as a 1st round pick, for two lottery tickets not guaranteed to be high picks and have near zero chance of producing a DPOY or All Pro, along with a 3rd rd pick was a better move by the Raiders.

Yeah, no.

 

[remydat]

Can someone point out players they would have taken instead outside of QB given we had drafted Trubisky? So keep the 1st rounders in 2019 and 2020. Who you drafting?

The best combo I see in hindsight is probably Sweat and Jefferson. So is Sweat and Jefferson better than Mack and Kmet? And if so, keep in mind, that is pretty much the only combination that is really close. So you are looking at like a 10% chance or less of hitting both those picks IMO.

 

[SugarWalls]

If Mack is in serious decline the trade was a waste. He doesn’t have to be a DPOY candidate, but the trend of decrease in play really needs to stop.

 

[abegibronlives]

Raiders wasted that haul. But we haven’t got our money’s worth from Mack, either…

First year was pretty good.

Last two...meh.

Not terrible, but not terrific either. He's a good player....Problem being, the Bears are playing for great player. One that can tilt the field, make those around him better, one that can dominate.

Maybe this year.

 

[bamainatlanta]

Lmao. Reading this thread makes me realize how stupid Bears fans are

 

[Enasic]

I guess you missed 1st, 3rd and 12th. 12th is not a disappointment when the other 2 years you were 1st and 3rd. It would be unreasonable to expect him to place in the top 5 every single year as few guys in the history of the NFL would do that.

In the past 3 years, only one guy has been top 5 on the DL or at Edge all 3 years. That is Aaron Donald. Only 2 guys have 2 top 5 finishes over that span. That is Mack and TJ Watt.

Wagner is the only ILB to do it twice. No CB has done it. Only Adams and Anthony Harris have done it twice at S.

So let's just grasp the implications of what you are suggesting. You are suggesting that despite being arguably the 2nd or 3rd best overall defender the past 3 years, he was not worth the trade. If that is the case then no one outside of Donald is.

If there is another way you wish to look at this then tell me who would be worth it in your book outside of Donald or Watt?

I don’t think it’s unreasonable to expect Mack to finish in the top 5-10 every year. That’s why the bears traded for him because they expected HoF level play and production. That’s why they gave up two 1sts and a boat load of money.

Either way, as I originally said, I don’t think it’s unfair to question whether or not it was a good trade for the bears. Watt, Donald, or any other players are irrelevant to the discussion. Would I make the trade again? I probably would. Did I expect Mack to start showing some signs of not being the same guy as 18 and prior 2 snd 3 years after the trade? No. We’ll see what happens this season I’m hoping for good things. He may have been banged up last season.

 

[Bust]

Last two...meh.

Which matches Eddie Jackson's Last two...meh.

Was it Pagano's scheme or ... ?

This is the year when everything will soon be answered.

 

[Enasic]

Which matches Eddie Jackson's Last two...meh.

Was it Pagano's scheme or ... ?

This is the year when everything will soon be answered.

Jackson has been way worse.