Max Scherzer Anyone?

[TC in Mississippi]

It's a risk for sure.

Absolutely no question there. It's fun to watch though. I enjoy watching big boys make big plans taking big risks.

 

[Boobaby1]

I agree. But to get a 20's early pitcher that is a TOR is just more valuable and harder to come by.
I mean what would you have to offer to get say Ventura from the Royals? Two of those 30 and a couple of lesser guys probably. Maybe even more.

EDIT: 20's

They are valuable, but they also go out there once every 5 days versus the position player playing 5 times a week and having an impact on the game on a daily basis. TOR's are needed, I am not disputing that, but if you look around prior to last year before moves were made, if you don't put the players around them, you have teams like the Sox, Mariners, and Marlins to name a few that had studs at the TOR pitching, but didn't produce enough to get them into post-season. A TOR can only do so much one time a week.

I think Theo is thinking along these lines. It's not that he doesn't want the TOR's in the system, but that he may be a step ahead going a different direction that goes against the grain of draft pitching first, players second.

Time will tell on this one, and it may be an even wash in the end I hope. As it stands right now, he has two VERY affordable players in Castro and Rizzo, and if any 3 of the 6 pan out between Bryant, Baez, Soler, Russell, Schwarber, and Almora, this could be a very nasty team for a good while, and extremely low on the payroll.

 

[brett05]

They are valuable, but they also go out there once every 5 days versus the position player playing 5 times a week and having an impact on the game on a daily basis. TOR's are needed, I am not disputing that, but if you look around prior to last year before moves were made, if you don't put the players around them, you have teams like the Sox, Mariners, and Marlins to name a few that had studs at the TOR pitching, but didn't produce enough to get them into post-season. A TOR can only do so much one time a week.

I think Theo is thinking along these lines. It's not that he doesn't want the TOR's in the system, but that he may be a step ahead going a different direction that goes against the grain of draft pitching first, players second.

Time will tell on this one, and it may be an even wash in the end I hope. As it stands right now, he has two VERY affordable players in Castro and Rizzo, and if any 3 of the 6 pan out between Bryant, Baez, Soler, Russell, Schwarber, and Almora, this could be a very nasty team for a good while, and extremely low on the payroll.

The pitcher that throws has a bigger influence over five games than the position player that plays every day for those five days. It's why the money is tossed like crazy to those that can at high levels.

Theo could be a step ahead. At worst, he's no different than all the others that couldn't bring a championship to the team.

Given all the specs and the high costs in salaries, I can't imagine what the team's payroll is going to be like come 2020. How many $20-35 million dollar a year players will they have? And that doesn't count any free agents/trades.

 

[JZsportsfan]

The pitcher that throws has a bigger influence over five games than the position player that plays every day for those five days. It's why the money is tossed like crazy to those that can at high levels.

Theo could be a step ahead. At worst, he's no different than all the others that couldn't bring a championship to the team.

Given all the specs and the high costs in salaries, I can't imagine what the team's payroll is going to be like come 2020. How many $20-35 million dollar a year players will they have? And that doesn't count any free agents/trades.

Here's to hoping they actually have that problem. Means these prospects panned out

 

[TC in Mississippi]

The pitcher that throws has a bigger influence over five games than the position player that plays every day for those five days. It's why the money is tossed like crazy to those that can at high levels.

Theo could be a step ahead. At worst, he's no different than all the others that couldn't bring a championship to the team.

Given all the specs and the high costs in salaries, I can't imagine what the team's payroll is going to be like come 2020. How many $20-35 million dollar a year players will they have? And that doesn't count any free agents/trades.

The payroll is going to be high but they're also going to have to trade players in their primes to constantly get younger. There's another wave of very good prospects coming, mostly from the Dominican, but the rules changed on those guys the next wave is going to have to come from creative thinking. For instance I don't expect kris Bryant to be a Cub come free agency which is why his years of control are so valuable. If you can trade out from under that looming free agency for younger guys in say a year where you have some injuries and probably won't compete for a WS then you do that. St. Louis and Boston have been very effective at versions of this in the last several years.

 

[brett05]

The payroll is going to be high but they're also going to have to trade players in their primes to constantly get younger. There's another wave of very good prospects coming, mostly from the Dominican, but the rules changed on those guys the next wave is going to have to come from creative thinking. For instance I don't expect kris Bryant to be a Cub come free agency which is why his years of control are so valuable. If you can trade out from under that looming free agency for younger guys in say a year where you have some injuries and probably won't compete for a WS then you do that. St. Louis and Boston have been very effective at versions of this in the last several years.

But that was under the old system. I think you can still make the trades but the return will be much, much less than the true value of the player. Which means it could be another period of tanking in efforts to "hit" again on prospects.

 

[TC in Mississippi]

But that was under the old system. I think you can still make the trades but the return will be much, much less than the true value of the player. Which means it could be another period of tanking in efforts to "hit" again on prospects.

That's why I said the rules had changed. I trust these guys to find the next loophole to exploit. They still have the beautiful facility in the Dominican they just can't bring in parades of 14 years olds to play there without inviting other clubs. I do think the key is to make trades on a constant basis and if injuries happen early in a season they'll need to bail on that season quickly and trade to get younger. Until they change the rules you can still overspend your slot money every other year and just lose your money the following year so that's also a path. At any rate it will be interesting.

 

[brett05]

In all honesty, I love hating when both teams are good so there's a better than average chance of loads of fun this summer

 

[JimJohnson]

For instance I don't expect kris Bryant to be a Cub come free agency which is why his years of control are so valuable.

uhh what?

 

[TC in Mississippi]

uhh what?

In year 5 or so I expect them to trade him for value. If he still has 2 years of control he's more valuable.

 

[JimJohnson]

In year 5 or so I expect them to trade him for value. If he still has 2 years of control he's more valuable.

I get the years of control but if he becomes a beloved Cub and is a perennial all-star, you don't just trade someone like that. Cubs aren't the Oakland A's.

 

[TC in Mississippi]

I get the years of control but if he becomes a beloved Cub and is a perennial all-star, you don't just trade someone like that. Cubs aren't the Oakland A's.

I don't think they become the A's who basically try to compete every few years when they see a window. I do hope that how beloved he is doesn't matter if trading him or anyone else makes the ballclub better. My whole thing with these guys is that I want what they're promising, a sustainable winning model. I'm fairly sick of watching the Cardinals have that model and continue to win year after year after bleeping year. I want that. I don't care who the players are if the fit the suits.

 

[JimJohnson]

I don't think they become the A's who basically try to compete every few years when they see a window. I do hope that how beloved he is doesn't matter if trading him or anyone else makes the ballclub better. My whole thing with these guys is that I want what they're promising, a sustainable winning model. I'm fairly sick of watching the Cardinals have that model and continue to win year after year after bleeping year. I want that. I don't care who the players are if the fit the suits.

I just want 1 WS. After that, we can worry about having a sustainable winning model.

 

[TC in Mississippi]

I just want 1 WS. After that, we can worry about having a sustainable winning model.

I want that too but I want multiple shots at the prize. You may not hit on your first one. Listen you get to the playoffs now and you might get lucky. How much does Washington regret shutting down Strasburg a few years back? You take your chances when you get them because there are no guarantees. Still you want to set up for multiple chances.

 

[mudslideglide]

In year 5 or so I expect them to trade him for value. If he still has 2 years of control he's more valuable.

Why would they spend three years getting all these guys to let them walk if they are good?

I'm confused

 

[TC in Mississippi]

Why would they spend three years getting all these guys to let them walk if they are good?

I'm confused

Because you need to keep payroll manageable and get younger. That often means trading guys in their prime.

 

[brett05]

Because you need to keep payroll manageable and get younger. That often means trading guys in their prime.

Then sustained greatness will not be happening

 

[TC in Mississippi]

Then sustained greatness will not be happening

Why? This is exactly what the Cardinals do, what the Giants do and most good sustainable organizations.

 

[mudslideglide]

I think you are overstating that a bit.

But I get your overall point.

 

[brett05]

Why? This is exactly what the Cardinals do, what the Giants do and most good sustainable organizations.

They re-up their studs. Posey got re-upped. Albert was bought out. Your studs get traded on the down side of the mountain, not crawling up the mountain.