Miguel Alfredo Gonzalez

[The Bandit]

Prolly right. Still though i say he been worth more then what they paid.

Not the point. At the time nobody saw the bid being that high since nobody but Texas went over 20 mil. That doesn't mean the cubs came on second on purpose. You're arguing that we should have spent 60 when nobody Even saw 30 being the high bid. That's not the cubs being cheap its then biding smart. Now it looks like he is worth more but at the tome he wasn't.

sent from my beaver dam using tapatalk 2

 

[KBisBack!]

That's not the cubs being cheap its then biding smart.

Yep. Cubs were incredibly smart.

Boy those Rangers sure look ignorant every fifth day. Whew. Cubs really outsmarted the Rangers on that one.*





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[dabynsky]

Yep. Cubs were incredibly smart.

Boy those Rangers sure look ignorant every fifth day. Whew. Cubs really outsmarted the Rangers on that one.*





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For spending over 100 million on a lottery ticket?

 

[KBisBack!]

For spending over 100 million on a lottery ticket?

There was a far less chance of Darvish not panning out than most international FA's that have come up and you knew he was going to be plugged right into the major league rotation, not sent to A ball. So in that respect, you already knew you were getting a major league player at least.

But at the end of the day, this is a results oriented business and the results with Darvish have been fairly spectacular.

You can't go back and say what if he didn't pan out or what if that. He is a legitimate Ace.

They look to have hit the Powerball on their lottery ticket while the Cubs $30M lottery ticket is still in A ball with a broken leg who looks like best case scenario will be 22 before he even makes it to AA now.*





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[dabynsky]

There was a far less chance of Darvish not panning out than most international FA's that have come up and you knew he was going to be plugged right into the major league rotation, not sent to A ball. So in that respect, you already knew you were getting a major league player at least.

But at the end of the day, this is a results oriented business and the results with Darvish have been fairly spectacular.

You can't go back and say what if he didn't pan out or what if that. He is a legitimate Ace.

They look to have hit the Powerball on their lottery ticket while the Cubs $30M lottery ticket is still in A ball with a broken leg who looks like best case scenario will be 22 before he even makes it to AA now.*





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Fair enough, though Darvish's success was pretty similar to another flameout like Dice-K. I don't think anyone has suggested Gonzalez is likely to be sent to A ball, but there are questions about his ability to start at a big league rotation after not pitching competitively, apart from 6 innings in Liga Norte de Mexico, for two years.

 

[KBisBack!]

Fair enough, though Darvish's success was pretty similar to another flameout like Dice-K.

Well first thing I noticed about Darvish is that he is 6' 5" and 225 and not 6' 185. He is a horse.

Anyways, the arm and elbow can go at any moment with pitchers so only time will tell if his arm holds up. Both pitchers threw a pretty good amount of innings in Japan before the age of 25. Darvish did throw about 140 less innings so maybe there are a few more bullets left when he got over here.*




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[patg006]

Fair enough, though Darvish's success was pretty similar to another flameout like Dice-K. I don't think anyone has suggested Gonzalez is likely to be sent to A ball, but there are questions about his ability to start at a big league rotation after not pitching competitively, apart from 6 innings in Liga Norte de Mexico, for two years.

I dont think Darvish and Dice-K were that similar with success. Darvish caught on quick and has kept his foot on the gas; while Dice-K was a one and done. His "gyroball" (soft-breaking screwball that got softer and softer until it was a 76 mph pitch with no movement) got him hurt. Normal people aren't supposed to throw screwballs, likely the cause of his reoccurring shoulder injuries.

Everybody knew who Darvish was since he was 17-18, even younger. He had power, dominating stuff then. Still does now, and he isnt throwing that funky pitch that fooled hitters once, hes got power curve and 12-6, change, 4 seam, slurve, cutter, and splitter. All good stuff, all plus pitches with little weakness. 7 pitch pitcher. Nasty stuff. I would have bid high....

 

[dabynsky]

I dont think Darvish and Dice-K were that similar with success. Darvish caught on quick and has kept his foot on the gas; while Dice-K was a one and done. His "gyroball" (soft-breaking screwball that got softer and softer until it was a 76 mph pitch with no movement) got him hurt. Normal people aren't supposed to throw screwballs, likely the cause of his reoccurring shoulder injuries.

Everybody knew who Darvish was since he was 17-18, even younger. He had power, dominating stuff then. Still does now, and he isnt throwing that funky pitch that fooled hitters once, hes got power curve and 12-6, change, 4 seam, slurve, cutter, and splitter. All good stuff, all plus pitches with little weakness. 7 pitch pitcher. Nasty stuff. I would have bid high....

I was talking about their success prior to coming to the states. Darvish's numbers were better in NPB, but he didn't completely outclass Dice-K either. Also both were very much on the radar after their showings in WBC.

 

[dabynsky]

Back to the topic of the thread, but Gonzalez has received notice the US government is processing his request for unblocking. Expectation is that he could be free to sign early next week according to Jesse Sanchez.

 

[The Bandit]

Yep. Cubs were incredibly smart.

Boy those Rangers sure look ignorant every fifth day. Whew. Cubs really outsmarted the Rangers on that one.*

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Considering the last Japanese pitcher to get that much flamed out pretty quick, AND nobody saw Darvish getting over 20 mil I'd say the Cubs played the market how they should, you don't spend 51 million when you don't need to. We lost because the Rangers spent 35 million more then anybody ever expected, and if Darvish wasn't an ace this year they'd be getting chewed over it, and if he pulls a Matsuzaka and disappears after a year or 2 then it'll be the same situation. The Rangers put 100 million into a lottery ticket and it paid off, the Cubs went after that lottery ticket and bid a good amount but someone else spent way more without anybody knowing. Shit happens.

 

[KBisBack!]

Considering the last Japanese pitcher to get that much flamed out pretty quick,

Excuses.

By that logic, considering the last few highly ranked prospects totally flamed out and busted, the Cubs shouldn't be putting all their eggs in the prospect basket then should they?*

AND nobody saw Darvish getting over 20 mil I'd say the Cubs played the market how they should, you don't spend 51 million when you don't need to.

The Rangers did.

And the Rangers are in first place and a legitimate World Series contender.

The Cubs are looking to draft in the top 5 again.

Again this is a results driven business. The Rangers are getting great results. The Cubs aren't.*

We lost because the Rangers spent 35 million more then anybody ever expected, and if Darvish wasn't an ace this year they'd be getting chewed over it, and if he pulls a Matsuzaka and disappears after a year or 2 then it'll be the same situation.

The Cubs lost out on Darvish period. End of story.

The rest of this statement is totally irrelevant speculation and if this, but that, what if garbage.

What if he continues to pitch like the Ace he is and ends up in the Hall of Fame??*

The Rangers put 100 million into a lottery ticket and it paid off, the Cubs went after that lottery ticket and bid a good amount but someone else spent way more without anybody knowing. Shit happens.

The Rangers acted like a big boy team and stepped up to the plate.

The Cubs fucked around.

End of story.

And seeing as you knew Darvish could step right into the major league rotation, he really isn't a lottery ticket despite the agenda to make him so.*






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[dabynsky]

And seeing as you knew Darvish could step right into the major league rotation, he really isn't a lottery ticket despite the agenda to make him so.*






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So is Gonzalez a lottery ticket if he pitches in the majors this year?

 

[SilenceS]

Considering the last Japanese pitcher to get that much flamed out pretty quick, AND nobody saw Darvish getting over 20 mil I'd say the Cubs played the market how they should, you don't spend 51 million when you don't need to. We lost because the Rangers spent 35 million more then anybody ever expected, and if Darvish wasn't an ace this year they'd be getting chewed over it, and if he pulls a Matsuzaka and disappears after a year or 2 then it'll be the same situation. The Rangers put 100 million into a lottery ticket and it paid off, the Cubs went after that lottery ticket and bid a good amount but someone else spent way more without anybody knowing. Shit happens.

Well to be fair, with soler and concepion. Didn't theo take a lottery ticket for them at 36 million. Better hope Soler makes it cause the other one is trash. Also, I don't know why we are talking about Gonzalez. The dodgers are going to throw out a ridiculous bid for him. I guarantee it

 

[The Bandit]

Well to be fair, with soler and concepion. Didn't theo take a lottery ticket for them at 36 million. Better hope Soler makes it cause the other one is trash. Also, I don't know why we are talking about Gonzalez. The dodgers are going to throw out a ridiculous bid for him. I guarantee it

We didn't pay a posting fee on top of that though, that 51 million Texas spent was just to talk to Darvish, and if he didn't sign they still lost the 51 mil. Soler was just a signing over 8 years? Or so and 30 mil

 

[dabynsky]

We didn't pay a posting fee on top of that though, that 51 million Texas spent was just to talk to Darvish, and if he didn't sign they still lost the 51 mil. Soler was just a signing over 8 years? Or so and 30 mil

Texas would have got the posting fee back if Darvish didn't sign.

 

[KBisBack!]

So is Gonzalez a lottery ticket if he pitches in the majors this year?

Yes. He will be a lottery ticket that pans out.

It is still an unknown right now if he can pitch in the majors.

Darvish was known at the time of the bidding that he was going to go right into the major league rotation.

Gonzalez has barely pitched the last two years and the top Cuban league is a significant step down for the top pro league in Japan.*





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[The Bandit]

Texas would have got the posting fee back if Darvish didn't sign.

You sure? Could've sworn that the posting fee was gone either way.

 

[dabynsky]

Yes. He will be a lottery ticket that pans out.

It is still an unknown right now if he can pitch in the majors.

Darvish was known at the time of the bidding that he was going to go right into the major league rotation.

Gonzalez has barely pitched the last two years and the top Cuban league is a significant step down for the top pro league in Japan.

So Cespedes was a lottery ticket than as well? Just trying to understand the position here. I take it then Fujikawa was not a lottery ticket then.

 

[dabynsky]

You sure? Could've sworn that the posting fee was gone either way.

I am virtually positive that the posting fee is only kept if the team manages to sign the player.

 

[KBisBack!]

So Cespedes was a lottery ticket than as well? Just trying to understand the position here. I take it then Fujikawa was not a lottery ticket then.

Cespedes is a tougher call. He wasn't a guarantee to be plugged right into the major league lineup but also was not a surprise when he did start the season in the majors. So maybe a lottery ticket with 5 of the 6 winning numbers already??

Fujikawa was not a lottery ticket as he was going right into the major league roster.*





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