Monta Ellis is not worth Deng or Noah

[PrideisBears]

No way disagree

Omer or Taj yes ... Jo no

Why are people so willing to let go of Taj?

 

[Utahbullsfan]

Why are people so willing to let go of Taj?

Im really reluctant especially with all he does plus Boozers injuries but we need another player that can create his own shot ... I think itd have to be Ellis, Iggy or Mayo. And then I still dont know if I would do it

 

[FirstTimer]

No way disagree

Omer or Taj yes ... Jo no

1. Omer isn't that damn good. Golden State knows it. We know. Everyone knows it.

2. I'd rather have a PF like Taj any day over Noah if it meant getting a legit scoring 2 guard.

Noah isn't a difference maker in a playoff series. Monta is. You can fill in a grindy, defensive big or bigs much mroe easily than you can find a 20+ PPG two guard who can create.

 

[waldo7239117]

The Bulls have had ongoing talks with the Warriors. Warriors have tons of interest in Deng. If the Bulls were to trade Deng in a Ellis trade, they better get more. But I still really don't like the idea of trading Deng.

 

[Utahbullsfan]

1. Omer isn't that damn good. Golden State knows it. We know. Everyone knows it.

2. I'd rather have a PF like Taj any day over Noah if it meant getting a legit scoring 2 guard.

Noah isn't a difference maker in a playoff series. Monta is. You can fill in a grindy, defensive big or bigs much mroe easily than you can find a 20+ PPG two guard who can create.

Ok who could do the things Jo does?

 

[waldo7239117]

We can find a 20ppg anywhere who wants to shoot the ball 30 times and drive to the basket. But I do love Ellis, I think Rose and him will be good together.

 

[Michael]

A lot of people would say the same thing about Rose,considering they're stats are almost identical,except Ellis shoots a higher percentage,and Ellis doesn't have a top rated rebounding or defensive unit backing him.And truthfully both are below average defenders.

That's my point exactly. If you have two players that need the ball in their hands, they often don't mesh very well. See the problems James and Wade had, or how poorly Turkoglu fitted in with Nash. It often results in one of the two players just standing around and waiting for his turn to create of the dribble.
But the bigger issue would be on defense. Two small guards cause constant problems on the defensive end. Ok, Thomas/ Dumars worked very well, and Stockton/ Hornacek were successful, too. But if both of your guards are mediocre defenders and undersized, I'm very concerned.

With Rose forcing constant double teams, the team's shooting guard primarily needs to be a good spot-up shooter and plays good defense. In order to take pressure off Rose, he doesn't even need to be able to be super-effective to create of the dribble, I guess. Think Rip Hamilton a while back or Ray Allen - a couple of picks, open jumper. I personally think that Iguadala would fit the bill perfectly: Good on the break, strong finisher, decent enough shooter, very good defender, and on top of it, he can create his own shot.

 

[Utahbullsfan]

Noah isn't a difference maker in a playoff series. Monta is.

Based on what ??? Montas playoff average is 8 ppg

 

[Utahbullsfan]

That's my point exactly. If you have two players that need the ball in their hands, they often don't mesh very well. See the problems James and Wade had, or how poorly Turkoglu fitted in with Nash. It often results in one of the two players just standing around and waiting for his turn to create of the dribble.
But the bigger issue would be on defense. Two small guards cause constant problems on the defensive end. Ok, Thomas/ Dumars worked very well, and Stockton/ Hornacek were successful, too. But if both of your guards are mediocre defenders and undersized, I'm very concerned.

With Rose forcing constant double teams, the team's shooting guard primarily needs to be a good spot-up shooter and plays good defense. In order to take pressure off Rose, he doesn't even need to be able to be super-effective to create of the dribble, I guess. Think Rip Hamilton a while back or Ray Allen - a couple of picks, open jumper. I personally think that Iguadala would fit the bill perfectly: Good on the break, strong finisher, decent enough shooter, very good defender, and on top of it, he can create his own shot.

Ya I see your point... But if we got Monta do you really think it would make us worse??

I honestly want Iggy because he can do what you said and he can also break the defender down and create his own shot ..

I just dont think we can be so picky given our situation and glaring need

 

[WindyCity7]

1. Omer isn't that damn good. Golden State knows it. We know. Everyone knows it.

2. I'd rather have a PF like Taj any day over Noah if it meant getting a legit scoring 2 guard.

Noah isn't a difference maker in a playoff series. Monta is. You can fill in a grindy, defensive big or bigs much mroe easily than you can find a 20+ PPG two guard who can create.

your just ignoring hard facts now you can not i repeat can not just go grab some dude pop him in & he would do the things jo does...do you watch or stat sheet jock....monta ellis is a playoff difference maker....you must have been laughing while typing or drunk... he might get 20 ppg but he takes almost 27+ shots to get there which means nothing i can do that shit. & you would rather taj over jo its 2 different positions.... & to your first statement if he isnt why was the fo swatting offers like flies to shit for him before the deadline? dont worry ill wait

 

[WindyCity7]

Ya I see your point... But if we got Monta do you really think it would make us worse?? I DO

I honestly want Iggy because he can do what you said and he can also break the defender down and create his own shot .. he likes the pill in his hands alot also & hes also in love with iso so if we did get him & he cut back on the hogging/instant iso it could wk

I just dont think we can be so picky given our situation and glaring need...true but were not gonna give up a solid piece for a overhyped player who would come & take us a step or 2 back instead of forward

red

 

[Utahbullsfan]

red

I agree with you but with a highly disciplined coach and playing next to Drose I dont think he would have a problem cutting back. ... Maybe he would I dont know much about his attitude or ego. But a lot of people were saying that Lebron/Wade couldnt make it work.

I just dont think we can be so picky given our situation and glaring need...true but were not gonna give up a solid piece for a overhyped player who would come & take us a step or 2 back instead of forward

I was just talking about people saying he has no business on the team. I dont think he is worth Deng or Noah.

 

[FirstTimer]

Ok who could do the things Jo does?

This site STILL doesn't get it.

It's not about having to find ONE guy to do the dirty work down low. You can try and go out and get multiple guys to do that sort of thing. I think a guy liek Reggie Evans would be a good start. Does he alone do it? Of course not, but look at a team like say..The Heat. The cobbled together a good enough front court to win in the ECF over the Bulls and Noah was largely a non factor at 5PPG and 8RPG for the series.

You don't have to replace Noah with one guy. The Bulls aren't forced to stop making personnel moves after trading Noah.


You go out and find multiple guys to do the job and fill in..and also assume Taj Gibson continues to progress as a player.

your just ignoring hard facts now you can not i repeat can not just go grab some dude pop him in & he would do the things jo does

See above.

You have no idea what you're talking about.

he might get 20 ppg but he takes almost 27+ shots

Please show me the season where Monta averaged at, near, or "+" 27 shots per game to get there.

to your first statement if he isnt why was the fo swatting offers like flies to shit for him before the deadline? dont worry ill wait

Asik he was a throw in players to deal to make money lineup. he's a nice backup center I guess but I really don't feel he's all that good as an NBA player. The biggest rumor was the Rocket's wanting him..and nothing ever came of that and it was for Courtney Lee..big whoop

Outside of that I don't know of really many more offers the Bulls had for him. Memphis wasn;'t really after him so much as they were Taj and ASik was a throw in.

Based on what ??? Montas playoff average is 8 ppg

1. That was in 2006-2007 for Golden State and he wasn't even a full time starter at the time and was barely over 20MPG. I would say his career has changed since then, no?

2. Monta is the type of creating scorer the Bulls need on the wing. I'd be willing to bet REALLY heavy money that Monta in the playoffs now performs much better and plays much more.

3. Whoever said Monta shoots 30 times a game is way off base. The most shots a game he has ever averaged in a season is 22.

 

[Utahbullsfan]

It's not about having to find ONE guy to do the dirty work down low. You can try and go out and get multiple guys to do that sort of thing. I think a guy liek Reggie Evans would be a good start. Does he alone do it? Of course not, but look at a team like say..The Heat. The cobbled together a good enough front court to win in the ECF over the Bulls and Noah was largely a non factor at 5PPG and 8RPG for the series.

It wasnt their front court that beat us it was James/Wade... Are you forgetting that Bosh is part of that front court? And you can have a decent to not good front court when you have one of the best back courts in the history of the league

1. That was in 2006-2007 for Golden State and he wasn't even a full time starter at the time and was barely over 20MPG. I would say his career has changed since then, no?

He's never been back to the playoffs since then... So you basically have no evidence that he would be a difference maker in the playoffs

 

[FirstTimer]

It wasnt their front court that beat us it was James/Wade.

You could argue Bosh's ability to score and Haslem's big game off the bench were turning points in the series as well. Lebron and Wade were killers down the stretch but Bosh was a key part of that series down low and went for 23/8.


And our frount court did little to nothing anyways.

I again point to Noah's general ineffectiveness during the series. He wasn't scoring. He wasn't rebounding, and Bosh got off even with Noah defending him many times. What exactly did Noah do that was so valuable in that series?

Then again this has nothing to do with the overall point that you don't have to replace Noah with one player. You can cobble together post players at the center position to pull it off.

He's never been back to the playoffs since then.

I'm sure that's all Ellis' fault...Really? What's that have to do with anything? Does it make anything I said untrue? Do you think Eillis has improved as a player since then? If he got to the playoffs tomorrow would you expect him to average 8PPG?

So you basically have no evidence that he would be a difference maker in the playoffs

In context of what the BULL NEED he would be.or at least part of it.This board has been screaming for a dynamic two guard since the Heat series ended. Ellis can create his own shot, is a very good scorer, and an above average shooter. I think he meets all the criteria. Meanwhile this board is also clamoring over Josh Smith, whose Nuggets teams have done virtually nothing in the playoffs and viewing him as any sort of a difference maker when he's not even starting for Denver.

Seriously?

I also ask again: Does it make anything I said untrue? Do you think Eillis has improved as a player since then? If he got to the playoffs tomorrow would you expect him to average 8PPG?

I add to it these questions: What two guard to you is a difference maker? What two guard do you want? At what price/trade? Why? What has that player done to be proven a difference maker in the playoffs?

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

The topic of this thread is on-point.

And Firsttimer is the one who wanted to trade Deng and Noah for Carmelo Anthony. I don't take his opinion seriously.

 

[Utahbullsfan]

So Miamis front court with Bosh is just cobbled together?? Alright

We cant afford to have a cobble together at positions because of the fact that we dont have Wade or James.

Hows the cobbled together SG position going for us??

.Does it make anything I said untrue? Do you think Eillis has improved as a player since then? If he got to the playoffs tomorrow would you expect him to average 8PPG?

YES!!! It makes this untrue

Noah isn't a difference maker in a playoff series. Monta is.

Good luck having which ever scrub you fill in for Noah make up for Boozers defense and Montas for that matter.


I am not against getting him, just not for Jo, Rose or Deng

 

[Utahbullsfan]

The topic of this thread is on-point.

And Firsttimer is the one who wanted to trade Deng and Noah for Carmelo Anthony. I don't take his opinion seriously.

Read my sig and see if that helps you take him seriously

 

[FirstTimer]

And Firsttimer is the one who wanted to trade Deng and Noah for Carmelo Anthony.

Still would..

I don't take his opinion seriously.

Says the guy who thought Robertson played mostly in the 70's and didn't have him in a Top 10 all time list.

*Something about living in glass houses and bricks*

So Miamis front court with Bosh is just cobbled together??

Obviously was referring to the center position because Bosh and Boozer heading into the season and hopefully the series was supposed to end up a wash or near to it.

Then again most people on this board want to trade Boozer now too.

We cant afford to have a cobble together at positions because of the fact that we dont have Wade or James.

I hate to be the one to break this to you but if that's the case the Bulls aren't going to win a championship or even get to a Finals anytime soon.

We aren't going to be able to acquire good players like Monta, Mayo, etc for virtually nothing. Hell, Memphis wanted Gibson and Asik for Mayo. How thin would that have left us up front for the playoffs?

The Bulls, if they want to compete NOW will have to make as many mvoes to get as many big time players they can and will have tod eal with some weakened positions.

Hows the cobbled together SG position going for us

Wing play>>>>>Post play in terms of importance in today's NBA so comparing a cobbled together two guard situation to cobbling together a center position doesn't make any sense.

YES!!! It makes this untrue

It actualyl doesn't because you're citing Elli's stats from 4 seasons ago when he was playing litterally have as much as he is right now and isn't even as good a player.

Good luck having which ever scrub you fill in for Noah make up for Boozers defense and Montas for that matter.

You act as though Noah did jack shit against Miami.

Nice work avoiding answering any of the questions I posed. You've pretty much proven yourself unable to critically think.

 

[FirstTimer]

Read my sig and see if that helps you take him seriously

LeClutch with daggers down the stretch on the Bulls after this board started calling him LeChoke part way through the 4th quarters.