Monta Ellis is not worth Deng or Noah

[Utahbullsfan]

It actualyl doesn't because you're citing Elli's stats from 4 seasons ago when he was playing litterally have as much as he is right now and isn't even as good a player.

I am citing his stats from his only time in the playoffs. You said he is a difference maker in the playoffs... Show me how and when he made a difference.

Nice work avoiding answering any of the questions I posed. You've pretty much proven yourself unable to critically think.

All I have proven is that I can pick and choose parts of posts just like you do

 

[WindyCity7]

yada yada yada

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Still would..

:smh:

Says the guy who thought Robertson played mostly in the 70's and didn't have him in a Top 10 all time list.

*Something about living in glass houses and bricks*

out of context. Never said that. Made a general assessment of things I didn't know historically about the NBA and you applied what I said about the 70's to Oscar Robertson specifically.

 

[FirstTimer]

I am citing his stats from his only time in the playoffs. You said he is a difference maker in the playoffs... Show me how and when he made a difference.

Because any reasonable basketball observer would say that a player like Monta Ellis would/is the type of player that would make a difference in the playoffs based on his on the court performance for teh last 4 seasons since he last appeared in them and has improved as a player.

Cart before the horse? Sure. But I'll stand by it.

All I have proven is that I can pick and choose parts of posts just like you do

Still not answering any of my questions, nice.

Just keep avoiding them because they blow your 4 year old Monta Ellis playoff stats logic out of the water.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Joakim Noah didn't have a great series versus Miami but he didn't do jack shit either. And Monta Ellis is one of the most overrated players in the NBA.

 

[Utahbullsfan]

LeClutch with daggers down the stretch on the Bulls after this board started calling him LeChoke part way through the 4th quarters.

Are you a miami fan seriously?? Thats what you do when your team is competing against another team heckle and talk trash on their players!

How many times has the guy choked?

He has shown more evidence of being LeChoke than LeClutch .... Like his finals performance right now

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

monta is actually a very efficient scorer....shoots about 47% and gets to the basket well and can take and make the jump shot...but he thrives in a constant run and gun system where he can fast break all day and then afford to be lazy on defense...thats a warrior/knicks high pace offense...

bulls stress half court and team defense....now im not saying ellis cant be capable of becoming a prolific half court scorer and an adequate defender but it would take some adjusting....i think some people would be surprised that he may not be close to a 20 point scorer

trading deng and noah for melo.....trading defense for offense.....plus now you are a little weaker up front with asik starting...

melo is a damn good player and scores like it's nothing but there's also a reason he hasn't won shit...because he's not the greatest team player especially on defense

deng and noah are magnificent defenders and a major reason why chicago's team defense was so good...especially deng who is arguably one of the most underrated players in the nba today

i do agree about post depth tho...you can't have enough low salary big men who can come in for relief of starters..make quality rebounds..get fouls and such...look at miami,for instance...

nba is a guards game...big men are becoming more screeners,and clean up than actually offensive options in game plans...not to say that there aren't plenty of offensive optioned big men...but the game has changed

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

I will say that trading Ellis for either Deng or Noah is much less idiotic than trading Deng and Noah for Anthony.

 

[FirstTimer]

Still waiting on the Monta Ellis 27 shots per game season.

Keep looking I'm sure you'll find it.

out of context. Never said that. Made a general assessment of things I didn't know historically about the NBA and you applied what I said about the 70's to Oscar Robertson specifically.

You were not sure that Robertson was better than Clyde Fucking Drexler.

You claim know about the game but haven't taken the time to look into a guy some people say was the second best player to ever play. That's asinine.

I think it's ridiculous that you could even make a Top 10 list with a straight face while knowing that you don't know enough about the decades in which perhaps the second best player in NBA history played.

Talk about ignorance....

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Still waiting on the Monta Ellis 27 shots per game season.

Keep looking I'm sure you'll find it.




You were not sure that Robertson was better than Clyde Fucking Drexler.

You claim know about the game but haven't taken the time to look into a guy some people say was the second best player to ever play. That's asinine.

I think it's ridiculous that you could even make a Top 10 list with a straight face while knowing that you don't know enough about the decades in which perhaps the second best player in NBA history played.

Talk about ignorance....

Way to beat a dead horse. I actually made a top 9 list in no particular order and later apologized for my ignorance on the subject of Oscar.

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

lebron has been clutch and he has choked....but i nor anyone here can make an excuse for lebron's performance yesterday, in which lebron did not show up when his team needed offense...8 points in an nba finals game when you're arguably the best player on the planet is inexcusable....no way in hell you can make sense out of that by saying "well i was just letting bosh and wade take the load"...no he had an off night as wade and bosh said....it was a very bad time to have an off night

so yes, lebron is leclutch and he is lechoke....you can make a case for either...right now he is lechoke...and that's how he's been in the finals for not just this game but in the 07 finals where he laid an egg to my spurs(btw thanks lebron)...dont forget he also had 14 points in a finals game then...until lebron mans up in the finals where the stage is at the highest...(higher than the conference finals for sure)...then i'd say he has choked when it comes to the finals

 

[WindyCity7]

Still waiting on the Monta Ellis 27 shots per game season.

Keep looking I'm sure you'll find it.

27 was the # i put out & i dont care enough to actually look but the bottom line is he NEEDS THE BALL IN HIS HANDS TOO MUCH TO BE EFFECTIVE & HE TAKES TOOO MANY SHOTS TO GET TO HIS AVERAGE PPG WTF DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND


keep looking im sure you find another comeback for me

 

[WindyCity7]

lebron has been clutch and he has choked....but i nor anyone here can make an excuse for lebron's performance yesterday, in which lebron did not show up when his team needed offense...8 points in an nba finals game when you're arguably the best player on the planet is inexcusable....no way in hell you can make sense out of that by saying "well i was just letting bosh and wade take the load"...no he had an off night as wade and bosh said....it was a very bad time to have an off night

so yes, lebron is leclutch and he is lechoke....you can make a case for either...right now he is lechoke...and that's how he's been in the finals for not just this game but in the 07 finals where he laid an egg to my spurs(btw thanks lebron)...dont forget he also had 14 points in a finals game then...until lebron mans up in the finals where the stage is at the highest...(higher than the conference finals for sure)...then i'd say he has choked when it comes to the finals

:yep::yep::yep::yep::yep::yep::yep::yep::yep:

 

[FirstTimer]

Joakim Noah didn't have a great series versus Miami but he didn't do jack shit either.

True. He did score 5PPG and grab 8RPG.

Perhaps jack shit was a tad too harsh? Simply "jack" or "shit" better?

Are you a miami fan seriously?? Thats what you do when your team is competing against another team heckle and talk trash on their players!

Not the type of fan I am. I remember yelling at Warren Moon beating his wife when I went to a Bears game years ago.....however I was in 4th grade at the time.

How many times has the guy choked?

Not nearly enough.

bulls stress half court and team defense....now im not saying ellis cant be capable of becoming a prolific half court scorer and an adequate defender but it would take some adjusting

No doubt it would take an adjustment of some kind but I think his ability to create his own shot and take people off the dribble coupled with Rose's ability to create space and open shots would benefit Ellis from the wing.

trading deng and noah for melo.....trading defense for offense.....plus now you are a little weaker up front with asik starting...

Again. The Bulsl don't have to all of a sudden stop making moves once that deal is done. They would have been allowed to make subsequent moves to patch things in. Looking at that trade as "one move and that's it" I think is shortsighted.

I will say that trading Ellis for either Deng or Noah is much less idiotic than trading Deng and Noah for Anthony.

And I'm not saying ship Noah out of town as fast as possible for Ellis either. My original statement was I'd be more willing to part with Noah than Deng. That's not exactly a glowing endorsement of a possible deal for Ellis and a far cry from "Noah is the suxors get him out". Just a statement that I see Deng more valuable to the Bulls all things considered than Noah.

 

[FirstTimer]

27 was the # i put out & i dont care enough to actually look but the bottom line is he NEEDS THE BALL IN HIS HANDS TOO MUCH TO BE EFFECTIVE & HE TAKES TOOO MANY SHOTS TO GET TO HIS AVERAGE PPG WTF DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND


keep looking im sure you find another comeback for me

Par for the course for most of the posters here.

"Too many shots"? In relative terms to what? Or Whom? He plays over 40MPG and takes just over 20 shots per game. That's really not a hell of a lot. Keep in mind this is also in a face paced system where shots will go up more often ,in fact GS lead the league in FGA this past season. He comes to the Bulls and his shots per game would drop for the simple fact that he'd be in a lower paced game, and have to split shots with guys like Deng, Rose, and Boozer. All capable scorers.

You're not even looking at the actual stats, let alone putting them in context.

Ellis is an effiecient effective scorer who can create his own shot. It's what the Bulls need. Maybe looking at pure rate stats isn't the best way to go about it but Ellis is pretty well respected around the league as a good scorer.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

True. He did score 5PPG and grab 8RPG.

Perhaps jack shit was a tad too harsh? Simply "jack" or "shit" better?

Noah didn't shoot the ball well but he did well in every other regard- including 2 games with six assists. Boozer was the one who did "jack shit."

 

[nwfisch]

And I'm not saying ship Noah out of town as fast as possible for Ellis either. My original statement was I'd be more willing to part with Noah than Deng. That's not exactly a glowing endorsement of a possible deal for Ellis and a far cry from "Noah is the suxors get him out". Just a statement that I see Deng more valuable to the Bulls all things considered than Noah.

I disagree. I see Noah as more valuable. Noah runs the best fastbreak in the NBA for a center, no one comes close to that. He's near the top in rebounding, and is one of the best offensive rebounders in the NBA.

He's a 2nd team all defense. His versatility on defense is 2nd to none. If he didn't tear the ligament in his thumb, he would have been an all-star, and likely made the All-NBA 3rd team.

Deng does a great job every night, but to me he does what a SF should do, rebound, score and play good defense. Deng does take on better defenders, and does a great job.

To me, it's easier replacing Deng than Noah.

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

No doubt it would take an adjustment of some kind but I think his ability to create his own shot and take people off the dribble coupled with Rose's ability to create space and open shots would benefit Ellis from the wing.

You bet it'd would take some adjusting....you do make a good point...ellis can get his own...but i feel in a more halfcourt oriented offense he is not as a prolific scorer when he cannot get to the basket as easily as he can in constant transition....and again the issue is defense...if he cant adjust accordingly to thib's defensive scheme and gives up perimeter scoring...then that's a problem...the bulls dont need anymore problems on d with boozer struggling in the interior

Again. The Bulsl don't have to all of a sudden stop making moves once that deal is done. They would have been allowed to make subsequent moves to patch things in. Looking at that trade as "one move and that's it" I think is shortsighted.

i understand that...because straight up i would never give away deng and noah for melo and be done with it....

what do you have in mind in terms of "subsequent moves?"

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

I disagree. I see Noah as more valuable. Noah runs the best fastbreak in the NBA for a center, no one comes close to that. He's near the top in rebounding, and is one of the best offensive rebounders in the NBA.

He's a 2nd team all defense. His versatility on defense is 2nd to none. If he didn't tear the ligament in his thumb, he would have been an all-star, and likely made the All-NBA 3rd team.

Deng does a great job every night, but to me he does what a SF should do, rebound, score and play good defense. Deng does take on better defenders, and does a great job.

To me, it's easier replacing Deng than Noah.

i see both as valuable.....but deng is a much better offensive option than noah and is also versatile on defense...dont forget he was in the running for defensive player of the year

also as someone mentioned, deng plays out on the perimeter which is arguably more important in the modern nba system than the post..

not to say that noah is not a valuable piece to the bulls...but i believe you,as well as many, underrate deng's abilities

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

I see Deng with more immediate value than Noah, but Noah can develop a much better low-post game. I'm absolutely certain of that.