Most Underrated/Overrated Players in the NBA?

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Deng isn't the third option on a contender.

Agreed.

 

[TheStig]

That is your opinion. Fact is Gordon plays with the Pistons, where he split time with Will Bynum.

I will take my chances with Deng.

Just like Kirk split time with Deng. Will Bynum didn't even play 1% of the pistons minutes at sg. Stop pulling stuff out of your ass.

 

[TheStig]

My response to that is really that BG wasn't as bad of a defender as guys like Nash or Blake... he was not going to get lit up as bad as those guys. But he was still a problem when you consider that he and D-Rose were very undersized and not very good together defensively. But you have to remember that the games where BG shot a very low percentage happened allllll the time... he was a high-risk/high-reward player that would currently be better suited to play with the Bulls 2nd unit against other teams' second units.

I believe Brewer once averaged 14 points-per-game... the Bulls would only have Rose and Deng (mediocre, at best) to shoot threes with that DR-RB-LD perimeter... but like I said... that is nothing new with the Bulls. They need high-percentage shots to be consistent. They will be shooting tons of FTs next year.

I hope your right but I can't see it working out that well. I think Korver is gonna end up playing a huge role. Deng and Brewer just don't work well offensively.

 

[pinkizdead]

I said Gordon is one-dimensional. I never said he forgot how to play. I don't think he is as great as you think he is. Nor do I think he is good enough to lament over his leaving.

I wouldn't mind if the Bulls got him...to come off the bench. You don't win with undersized back courts. Especially if neither is good defensively. I know you and others think Gordon is the second coming of Joe Dumars, but I have news for you...he ain't. Not even close. At this point, he gets paid more than superior players at the same position...Ellis, Martin for example. I would rather have Anthony Morrow at 1/5 of Gordon's contract. He is the best long range shooter in the NBA.

wade is a million times better than gordon on offense and defense. WITH THAT SAID, wade is only an inch taller than gordon. (obviously wade plays much larger than his height) However, the best back court defenders dont really ensure winning. back court offense is what counts, especially in an perimeter dominated game. on defense, i dont think it matters if you have a small back court as long as you have a tough front court.

 

[pinkizdead]

Kirk didn't help make lanes for Rose? Kirk is damn near as good a 3pt shooter as Gordon is. 38% career, and he is amazingly consistent throughout his career. He has never shot below 35% from outside. I don't understand why you all have to devalue every other player on the roster to boost Gordon's value. It makes no sense.

serisouly look at how many attempts kirk took from behind the arc last year. that % is seriously inflated given how rarely kirk shot well from behind 3%

 

[pinkizdead]

I think most Bulls fans either loved or hated BG.

I really liked him. But I was glad when he left because I think that the team was better off going in a different direction.

Getting back to the present, I don't think they are soooo worse off with Ronnie Brewer- believe it or not. Brewer brings mediocre shooting but very good defense and more athleticism.

Brewer = consistent 10+ point scorer at a low price.

sweet ten points! that's an amazing starting 2 guard!

forgive the sarcasm. It seems ironic that in this discussion about bg that i think brewer would be a great player off the bench. He'd be like a sefolosha with a decent midrange jump shot. Yeup that's what the bulls needed all along. another mid range jump shooter. the lanes are going to be wide wide open this year.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

sweet ten points! that's an amazing starting 2 guard!

forgive the sarcasm. It seems ironic that in this discussion about bg that i think brewer would be a great player off the bench. He'd be like a sefolosha with a decent midrange jump shot. Yeup that's what the bulls needed all along. another mid range jump shooter. the lanes are going to be wide wide open this year.

I respect those points. But I'll tell you what the Bulls need to have happen- Rose developing a consistent 3-pt shot. Because if that happens... He will have plenty of lanes that he can create on his own.

10 points isn't nothing either... BG had more games than I can count at under 10 points and 30% shooting...

 

[pinkizdead]

i dont remember those games. even while injured, which he rarely was, gordon seemed to make it to the foul line. This current bulls incarnation is built out of glass.

I'm hoping that i no longer have to defend gordon. i'm tired of the topic. he was a good role player for the bulls. he wasn't our star, but he was a great scorer.

 

[houheffna]

Just like Kirk split time with Deng. Will Bynum didn't even play 1% of the pistons minutes at sg. Stop pulling stuff out of your ass.

Never said he did...stop being a basketball Special person and pulling stuff out of your ass to support your dumb ass argument.

 

[houheffna]

serisouly look at how many attempts kirk took from behind the arc last year. that % is seriously inflated given how rarely kirk shot well from behind 3%

He has shot the same high percentage consistently from the time he stepped into the league. How many shots do you need to see to know that he is capable from long range?

Gordon has 2090 shots from 3pt in his career, Hinrich has 2144. Gordon is shooting over 40%, Hinrich 38%...

Hinrich averaged 4-5 3PA a game during his first 4 seasons and never shot below .355 during that span.

So I don't understand your point...

 

[dougthonus]

But that is why I said that Gordon was expendable. To play good top level basketball, he is not a necessity. I talked about Isiah/Dumars as the only midget backcourt to win a title in recent history. Rose has a chance to dominate on a Isiah like level...but Gordon won't ever be Joe Dumars...period.

Wade and Jason Williams won.

I think rather than discussing whether Gordon could or couldn't be part of a championship team because he's 6'3 is really putting the cart before the horse relative to our other issues like not having a top 5 player in the NBA. That seems like a much greater limiting factor on championship aspirations than an inch of height on a 3rd or 4th best player on the team.

 

[pinkizdead]

He has shot the same high percentage consistently from the time he stepped into the league. How many shots do you need to see to know that he is capable from long range?

Gordon has 2090 shots from 3pt in his career, Hinrich has 2144. Gordon is shooting over 40%, Hinrich 38%...

Hinrich averaged 4-5 3PA a game during his first 4 seasons and never shot below .355 during that span.

So I don't understand your point...

the bulls stopped taking 3pters last year. Deng, hinrich, and salmons all were hesitant to shoot the 3pt shot. Yeah he shot a career percentage, but that's off 1 made shot out of 3 or 4 3pt shots attempted a night. you're comparing hinrich's 3pt shooting percentage to a volume 3pt shooter's percentage. It seems a bit unfair.

 

[Kush77]

I like Ben Gordon.

 

[TheStig]

serisouly look at how many attempts kirk took from behind the arc last year. that % is seriously inflated given how rarely kirk shot well from behind 3%

Let alone the fact that Kirk was taken completly wide open threes vs the harder degree difficulty shots BG took. Not to mention BG lead the team in fta or shot 4%+ fg or the 7+% ts% or the 5+ per better from their last years starting here.

Kirk's numbers were pathetic. Any starting sg shooting 40.9%fg, 11.6 per and barely over 50% ts percentage is pathetic.

 

[Scoot26]

I like how this BG argument is still going and now is beginning to turn into BG vs Kirk.

 

[TheStig]

wade is a million times better than gordon on offense and defense. WITH THAT SAID, wade is only an inch taller than gordon. (obviously wade plays much larger than his height) However, the best back court defenders dont really ensure winning. back court offense is what counts, especially in an perimeter dominated game. on defense, i dont think it matters if you have a small back court as long as you have a tough front court.

John Salmons was our 6'7 starting sg to begin the year and his 6 inches didn't make him any better than BG. Kevin Martin at 6'7 is also no better defensively than BG. ANd he is 6 inches taller.

 

[TheStig]

I like how this BG argument is still going and now is beginning to turn into BG vs Kirk.

Well to be honest it always was. the bulls had BG agreeing to a 6/54 and a deal to trade kirk for expiring. Since we didn't want to pay the LT it always was.

 

[houheffna]

Let alone the fact that Kirk was taken completly wide open threes vs the harder degree difficulty shots BG took. Not to mention BG lead the team in fta or shot 4%+ fg or the 7+% ts% or the 5+ per better from their last years starting here.

Kirk's numbers were pathetic. Any starting sg shooting 40.9%fg, 11.6 per and barely over 50% ts percentage is pathetic.

Put a sock in it man! With this 11.6 per crap! You are being redundant. Hinrich is not a pathetic basketball player. I can name many players with lower PERs that are better players than other players in the league who rate out higher in those Hollinger stats.

I don't know anybody who has stated that Kirk should start. I like Kirk's game, he is a nice, versatile combo guard who does a lot to help a team. Some things that are not quantifiable by Hollinger numbers...all of those players were expendable, and still are when considering what the Bulls were trying to do this summer.

 

[Crystallas]

Why are we stuck in 2007 Mode?

 

[Scoot26]

Why are we stuck in 2007 Mode?

I dont know..I wonder what this forum would have been like in 2005 after Eddy Curry was dumped. lol.

I said what I had to say about Ben Gordon and now its morphed into a never ending argument really..and it will be that for years..never ending. :shot: