Most Underrated/Overrated Players in the NBA?

[houheffna]

I wouldn't exactly call 14 pts getting handled. Beaubois got hot. But I will disagree, BG is actually pretty good at keeping people in front of him. He fits into a system decently and can stay in front of guys and funnel them toward help.

They were pretty bad defensively but Rose was clearly worse that year defensively. I think as Rose improves defensively they would have gotten better, they also both had a crappy noah for 2/3 of the season as their defensive anchor.

So your defense for Gordon's porous defense is "he isn't as bad as Rose"? Rose was a rookie, what's Gordon's excuse? As far as Beaubois, he didn't get hot, he just waltzed right past Gordon, over and over, he didn't always score, but he was able to drive past him.

Rose can learn to defend, and not have a size disadvantage at the position like Gordon does.

Gordon is a scorer...something you tried to limit Kobe Bryant to being, that is ALL he can do, he is not great at it. He is a good scorer, and he is one dimensional. Acting as if he is adequate defensively at that position is a fallacy. A tell tale sign is when you have to denounce other players' abilities to promote Gordon's. You have done that with Rose and Pierce. My money is on both of those players being much better at defending their positions than Gordon is over the course of their careers. He will always be costly because you will have to find others to do what he can't do.

 

[clonetrooper264]

I'd say Gordon is a pretty good scorer. 20 ppg is pretty good imo.

 

[Scoot26]

Gordon is a scorer...something you tried to limit Kobe Bryant to being, that is ALL he can do, he is not great at it. He is a good scorer, and he is one dimensional. Acting as if he is adequate defensively at that position is a fallacy. A tell tale sign is when you have to denounce other players' abilities to promote Gordon's. You have done that with Rose and Pierce. My money is on both of those players being much better at defending their positions than Gordon is over the course of their careers. He will always be costly because you will have to find others to do what he can't do.

You can go back to the 06-07 series against the Pistons to see how bad at D Gordon is. Skiles did everything he could to hide Gordon in the defense but the Pistons just kept hounding him everywhere he went.

 

[TheStig]

So your defense for Gordon's porous defense is "he isn't as bad as Rose"? Rose was a rookie, what's Gordon's excuse? As far as Beaubois, he didn't get hot, he just waltzed right past Gordon, over and over, he didn't always score, but he was able to drive past him.

Rose can learn to defend, and not have a size disadvantage at the position like Gordon does.

Gordon is a scorer...something you tried to limit Kobe Bryant to being, that is ALL he can do, he is not great at it. He is a good scorer, and he is one dimensional. Acting as if he is adequate defensively at that position is a fallacy. A tell tale sign is when you have to denounce other players' abilities to promote Gordon's. You have done that with Rose and Pierce. My money is on both of those players being much better at defending their positions than Gordon is over the course of their careers. He will always be costly because you will have to find others to do what he can't do.

Rose has all the athletic gifts in the world to be a lock down defender. Great size, great strength, great quickness. BG is undersized and doesn't have the quickness. And your complaining about one and not the other. Rose came out of college as a good defender. BG came into the league as a terrible one and improved to average. He really isn't a problem defensively.

No I said that he is average defensively. You said they were one of the worst back courts in the league defensively. I said that was more rose. I didn't proactively make the point, I only made the point when you grouped them together. The numbers also support bg being average defensively, his opponents put up an average per against him.

Wow can we get more off topic and random. Kobe is a very good defender. He is a pretty good rebounder and I;d say above average at creating for others. When compared to Bron, which is where the statement came from, he looks more one dimensional.

 

[TheStig]

You can go back to the 06-07 series against the Pistons to see how bad at D Gordon is. Skiles did everything he could to hide Gordon in the defense but the Pistons just kept hounding him everywhere he went.

The whole team got killed defensively that series, I wouldn't single anyone out.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

You can go back to the 06-07 series against the Pistons to see how bad at D Gordon is. Skiles did everything he could to hide Gordon in the defense but the Pistons just kept hounding him everywhere he went.

this^

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

I don't get how anyone can call Gordon an average defender... he's still one of the worst ones in the NBA...

 

[Scoot26]

I don't get how anyone can call Gordon an average defender... he's still one of the worst ones in the NBA...

I really dont know...I always knew he was a bad defender watching him his rookie year. I kept holding out someday he would learn defense. And being that he had such a great defensive coach in Skiles to guide him, I definitely thought he could. By 06-07 I gave up though. And to me if Skiles couldnt teach him to be a better defender..not too many coaches would be able to. Maybe the guys in San Antonio, but its too late for that.

 

[Bullsman24]

yeah i remember the backcourt killing us in the miami series, no wonder we lost against the best SG in the NBA...

 

[pinkizdead]

Ben Gordon is not even a top 10 SG. He may not even be a top 20 SG... though that would be a stretch.

that's Bull.

bg's arguably in the top 10 for shooting guards in the league.

 

[Crystallas]

BG is one of the top 20 bench SG's of all time. Its his role as a starter, that never seemed right.

 

[Scoot26]

that's Bull.

bg's arguably in the top 10 for shooting guards in the league.

Kobe, Dwyane Wade, Joe Johnson, Brandon Roy, Manu Ginobili, Stephen Jackson, Andre Iguodala, Jason Richardson, Ray Allen, Kevin Martin, Monta Ellis, OJ Mayo, Vince Carter

Those are SG's (I understand Iggy might play SF) that I consider better than BG.

Again..SG's that >I< consider to be better than BG.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

1) Kobe Bryant
2) Dwyane Wade
3) Brandon Roy
4) Manu Ginobili
5) Joe Johnson
6) Tyreke Evans
7) Monta Ellis
8) O.J. Mayo
9) Stephen Jackson
10) Ray Allen
11) Vince Carter
12) Jamal Crawford
13) Eric Gordon
14) Kevin Martin
15) Jason Richardson
16) Jason Terry
17) Ben Gordon
18) Gilbert Arenas (not including Allen Iverson)
19) John Salmons
20) Richard Hamilton
21) Michael Redd
22) J.R. Smith

that's where I'd put him.

 

[houheffna]

Rose has all the athletic gifts in the world to be a lock down defender. Great size, great strength, great quickness. BG is undersized and doesn't have the quickness. And your complaining about one and not the other. Rose came out of college as a good defender. BG came into the league as a terrible one and improved to average. He really isn't a problem defensively.

No I said that he is average defensively. You said they were one of the worst back courts in the league defensively. I said that was more rose. I didn't proactively make the point, I only made the point when you grouped them together. The numbers also support bg being average defensively, his opponents put up an average per against him.

Wow can we get more off topic and random. Kobe is a very good defender. He is a pretty good rebounder and I;d say above average at creating for others. When compared to Bron, which is where the statement came from, he looks more one dimensional.

Your last paragraph, was god awful man...compared to NOBODY is Kobe one dimensional. I brought Kobe up because you used to say that about him as if he can't do anything else well. He is an excellent defender and ball handler. My point is that you stressed Kobe as one dimensional but you don't see it in Ben Gordon?

Well as far as BG goes, Vinny Del Negro and I disagree with you, which is why they sat his ass down in closing minutes of the playoffs. That way, he "really isn't a problem defensively".

 

[houheffna]

that's Bull.

bg's arguably in the top 10 for shooting guards in the league.

Aren't you the guy who once argued that Gordon was better than Joe Johnson? Forgive me if that isn't the case...but I believe so...

I think he is top 20, but no way is he top 10. I have had to argue about Martin and Ellis with Gordon fans. One of the guys that posted on here said that Gordon was better than Joe Johnson....now that is a bit scary. I just think Gordon fans serious overrate Gordon's abilities.

 

[Gustavus Adolphus]

that's Bull.

bg's arguably in the top 10 for shooting guards in the league.

LOL, April Fools.....I get it. I get jokes.

 

[pinkizdead]

Kobe, Dwyane Wade, Joe Johnson, Brandon Roy, Manu Ginobili, Stephen Jackson, Andre Iguodala, Jason Richardson, Ray Allen, Kevin Martin, Monta Ellis, OJ Mayo, Vince Carter

Those are SG's (I understand Iggy might play SF) that I consider better than BG.

Again..SG's that >I< consider to be better than BG.

vince carter sucks(ed) jackson isn't better. mayo isn't better either.

 

[pinkizdead]

1) Kobe Bryant
2) Dwyane Wade
3) Brandon Roy
4) Manu Ginobili
5) Joe Johnson
6) Tyreke Evans
7) Monta Ellis
8) O.J. Mayo
9) Stephen Jackson
10) Ray Allen
11) Vince Carter
12) Jamal Crawford
13) Eric Gordon
14) Kevin Martin
15) Jason Richardson
16) Jason Terry
17) Ben Gordon
18) Gilbert Arenas (not including Allen Iverson)
19) John Salmons
20) Richard Hamilton
21) Michael Redd
22) J.R. Smith

that's where I'd put him.

terry isn't better than gordon. eric gordon isn't better than gordon. crawford is significantly worse than gordon, plus he IS a bench player. vince carter is far beyond worse than gordon. in his prime he was better, but he's rather terrible. mayo hasn't done anything to suggest he's better than gordon. stephen jackson is a piece of crap that is no way shape or form better than gordon. ray allen is far beyond his prime.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

We've had this argument before. And you're still wrong.

 

[houheffna]

terry isn't better than gordon. eric gordon isn't better than gordon. crawford is significantly worse than gordon, plus he IS a bench player. vince carter is far beyond worse than gordon. in his prime he was better, but he's rather terrible. mayo hasn't done anything to suggest he's better than gordon. stephen jackson is a piece of crap that is no way shape or form better than gordon. ray allen is far beyond his prime.

THIS is what I am talking about. Crawford is "significantly worse"? Are you serious? What do you use for scouting? Video games? Crawford was did very well in the role he was given, can't say the same about Gordon.

Carter is "far beyond worse" than Gordon? What??? Leave the drugs alone man. Stephen Jackson?

What the heck are you watching man...bad, bad analysis...