Niemis Arbitration

[Kerfuffle]

Re: Can the Hawks sign Niemi at $4m without losing a core pi

We also have to keep in mind the struggles Niemi had early on - remember all the talk about our goaltending being a factor? The last 2 goalie contracts we've given out have been crap (Khabi, Huet). The last thing I want is another contract to a goalie that MAY turn out to be a bust. There's just not enough history on Niemi to take that kind of a risk. He and his agent are fighting for every last penny on the table even if it means the Hawks have to get rid of other guys to keep him. Each day I get more and more TO'd at him. I wish the Hawks would just sign someone else at this point and move on. Then we can take the handcuffs off.

 

[Ton]

Re: Can the Hawks sign Niemi at $4m without losing a core pi

[quote name="jtalarico328"]Obviously if we can keep him at 3 mil or less, even better. Zito's interview this morning just sent me into a slight panic. That guy is an epic cocksmoke. No way he accepts 3 mil.[/quote]



It's all a game for Zito. Bet he lowers the asking price before arbitration.



As far as being worried about Makarov or Skille, I'm not. If they deserve to make the team out of camp, props to them... but as far as handing them roster spots, no way.



That line-up looks very thin. Between Makarov, Skille, Bickell, Dowell, Lalonde, and Stalberg they are combined for 120 NHL games for experience... I just don't think its smart going into the season with 6 questionable roster spots and they would all have 100% job security since there would hardly be any competition for them given the fact that there would only be 20 players on the roster and NO Cap room to spare. So even if the Hawks wanted to call someone up, chances are they couldn't.



Better yet, if Niemi makes $4M, instead of trying to squeeze him in, get a goaltender for around $2.5M and do it this way:



FORWARDS

Kopecky($1.2M)/Toews($6.3M)/Hossa($5.275M) = $12.775M

Brouwer($1.025M)/Sharp($3.9M)/Kane($6.3M) = $11.225M

Stalberg($850K)/Bolland($3.375M)/Some RW($800K) = $5.025M

Bickell($600K)/Dowell($525K)/Skille($600K) = $1.725M



Extra: Scott = $512K



DEFENSEMAN

Keith($5,538,462)/Seabrook($3.5M) = $9,038,462M

Campbell($7,142,875)/Hjalmarsson($3.5M) = $10,642,875M

*Vishnevskiy($822K)/Cullimore($500K) = $1.322M



GOALTENDING

Some goaltender ($2.4M or less)

Crawford ($800K)



*Or re-sign Hendry, much more preferred, along with Boynton for the bottom D line.



21 players, payroll = $59,423,256 with the bonus penalty. I'd feel pretty comfortable with that. Hell if they really wanted they can drop Crawford and Vishnevskiy, call up Toivenen, Lalonde, and then have room for one extra player if they wanted 22 players.



Makarov can make the team too, maybe taking that RW spot which would give us more space, but I'd rather see competition at camp, so we'll see. Maybe Kruger, Makarov, Klinkhammer will battle it out for that 3rd line spot or they can sign someone -- perhaps someone like Aaron Asham, Shean Donovan, Mark Parrish, Jason Ward -- which I would much rather prefer.

 

[esbrechtel]

Re: Can the Hawks sign Niemi at $4m without losing a core pi

I don't know anything about NHL agents but to me it appears that Zito is to NHLy what Rosenhous is to NFL and Boras is to MLB, Players love them ownership does not...



The guy sounds like a jag in all of the interviews I have heard...but I guess you don't get rich by being a nice guy...

 

[Kerfuffle]

Re: Can the Hawks sign Niemi at $4m without losing a core pi

[quote name="esbrechtel"]I don't know anything about NHL agents but to me it appears that Zito is to NHLy what Rosenhous is to NFL and Boras is to MLB, Players love them ownership does not...



The guy sounds like a jag in all of the interviews I have heard...but I guess you don't get rich by being a nice guy...[/quote]

Yeah - it's important also to listen to what Zito has been saying on radio and interviews. I have not heard him yet say that Niemi really enjoys playing for Chicago and wants to stay here, nothing about teammates he is close to, nothing about wanting to repeat, nothing about wanting to be a Hawk the rest of his career. All I'm hearing is "my client expects to be paid", and "my client won the Stanley Cup and should be compensated accordingly", and "our position is that we won a championship and would like to receive market value". Only the money is being discussed which tells me that's all that matters to Niemi here.

 

[GoBucky]

Re: Can the Hawks sign Niemi at $4m without losing a core pi

[quote name="Kerfuffle"]

Yeah - it's important also to listen to what Zito has been saying on radio and interviews. I have not heard him yet say that Niemi really enjoys playing for Chicago and wants to stay here, nothing about teammates he is close to, nothing about wanting to repeat, nothing about wanting to be a Hawk the rest of his career. All I'm hearing is "my client expects to be paid", and "my client won the Stanley Cup and should be compensated accordingly", and "our position is that we won a championship and would like to receive market value". Only the money is being discussed which tells me that's all that matters to Niemi here.[/quote]



He said this yesterday on the Score.

 

[PatrickSharpRules]

Re: Can the Hawks sign Niemi at $4m without losing a core pi

Hey he can have fun with his extra million dollars a year with some dog ass bullshit franchise. If he can't see that there is a great opportunity to win more cups for a little bit less(probably even out with endorsements here), then he can walk away and enjoy seeing 30 quality scoring chances a game......good luck with that for a full-season.



**** Zito.

 

[Larmer83]

Re: Can the Hawks sign Niemi at $4m without losing a core pi

It's about 14 minutes with Zito coming on after the 5 minute mark

http://wscr.cbslocal.com/2010/07/14/bil ... more-23402



Selected quotes from his interview:



"Anti would like to stay and be a part of this thing"

"Going to arbitration is a risk"

"I always think that a negotiated settlement is best"

"Loves it here and he’d like to be a part of it"

"There’s not that many teams out there looking for goaltenders"

"From our perspective we have to hurry up and wait"

"I’m sure we’ll(Stan Bowman) be talking on a myriad of subjects, almost every other day"

 

[Spunky Porkstacker]

Re: Can the Hawks sign Niemi at $4m without losing a core pi

[quote name="canucklehead"]

I would be inclined to agree for the most part, but I am EXTREMELY doubtful he can keep it up. there were times last year where it really looked like he was falling apart, but usually made up for it later in the game, so it was forgiven. I just don't see him being able to repeat, especially on the Thrashers.[/quote]

Dear Canucklehead, I think you are swell, "BUT" due to your unwavering love of the CRYING LUONGO and friends, your opinions about anything Blackhawks just comes across as sour grapes from the way your team has been treated by our beloved Blackhawks.

 

[ginnie]

Re: Can the Hawks sign Niemi at $4m without losing a core pi

[quote name="IceHogsFan"]





Bwaaaaa hahaha...... correct.



RK plays, well, never mind.



PLEASE keep in mind that last season was Niemi's rookie season!

He helped lead us to that heavenly place.



Lets go $2-$2.5 M and get it done!~[/quote]



That sounds about right. Where is this $4 million number coming from?

 

[PatrickShart]

Re: Can the Hawks sign Niemi at $4m without losing a core pi

I think more in this range -

All these are 2 year - (exceptions)

Chris Mason - 1.85mil per ... (.916 - .913 last 2 years)

Tuuka Rask - 1.25mil per .....(.930 , 6 so's in 50 career games)

C.Anderson - 1.812mil per.....(.924 in 31gms in last year in FLA before getting #1)

Jon Quick - 1.8mil per (3yr)...(.907 in 72gms last year... .914in 44 prev year)

Leighton - 1.55mil per...........(.918 in 27gms and taking Philly to the Cup)



Niemi - including playoffs - .910% in 64gms 9so's ....is that much better than these guys?

 

[Guest]

Re: Can the Hawks sign Niemi at $4m without losing a core pi

[quote name="pmxc12873"]I think more in this range -

All these are 2 year - (exceptions)

Chris Mason - 1.85mil per ... (.916 - .913 last 2 years)

Tuuka Rask - 1.25mil per .....(.930 , 6 so's in 50 career games)

C.Anderson - 1.812mil per.....(.924 in 31gms in last year in FLA before getting #1)

Jon Quick - 1.8mil per (3yr)...(.907 in 72gms last year... .914in 44 prev year)

Leighton - 1.55mil per...........(.918 in 27gms and taking Philly to the Cup)



Niemi - including playoffs - .910% in 64gms 9so's ....is that much better than these guys?[/quote]





Nope. Once again you hit a home run!

 

[KRAZYHWKFAN]

Re: Can the Hawks sign Niemi at $4m without losing a core pi

[quote name="pmxc12873"]I think more in this range -

All these are 2 year - (exceptions)

Chris Mason - 1.85mil per ... (.916 - .913 last 2 years)

Tuuka Rask - 1.25mil per .....(.930 , 6 so's in 50 career games)

C.Anderson - 1.812mil per.....(.924 in 31gms in last year in FLA before getting #1)

Jon Quick - 1.8mil per (3yr)...(.907 in 72gms last year... .914in 44 prev year)

Leighton - 1.55mil per...........(.918 in 27gms and taking Philly to the Cup)



Niemi - including playoffs - .910% in 64gms 9so's ....is that much better than these guys?[/quote]



That makes me feel alot better about the upcomming Arbitration

 

[Larmer83]

Re: Can the Hawks sign Niemi at $4m without losing a core pi

[quote name="ginnie"]



That sounds about right. Where is this $4 million number coming from?[/quote]

Since Halak signed a 4 year deal with a cap hit of 3.75 mllion, the very simple justification is Niemi > Halak due being the SC winning goalie so Niemi gets more coin.



A problem with that comparison is Halak is giving up UFA money in the last 2 years of the deal. Halak's first year pays 2.75 million with the last year paying 4.5 and by going to arbitration, Niemi can get just a 1 year deal.

 

[Larmer83]

Re: Can the Hawks sign Niemi at $4m without losing a core pi

From the CBA

(iii) The following categories of evidence are inadmissible and shall

not be considered by the Salary Arbitrator:

(A) Any SPC the term of which began when the Player party to

such SPC was not a Group 2 Player;

59

(B) Any SPC entered into by an Unrestricted Free Agent,

including SPCs signed by Players after the Player's Club

has exercised a walk-away right pursuant to Section 12.10;



Earlier in this thread, I thought that Rask was a excellent comparison to Niemi. However, for purposes of arbitration his SPC cannot be used since he signed an extension in 2009 so under "A" was never a Group 2 player. Same with Quick who signed his current deal in November of 2009.

 

[esbrechtel]

Re: Can the Hawks sign Niemi at $4m without losing a core pi

[quote name="Larmer83"]From the CBA

(iii) The following categories of evidence are inadmissible and shall

not be considered by the Salary Arbitrator:

(A) Any SPC the term of which began when the Player party to

such SPC was not a Group 2 Player;

59

(B) Any SPC entered into by an Unrestricted Free Agent,

including SPCs signed by Players after the Player's Club

has exercised a walk-away right pursuant to Section 12.10;



Earlier in this thread, I thought that Rask was a excellent comparison to Niemi. However, for purposes of arbitration his SPC cannot be used since he signed an extension in 2009 so under "A" was never a Group 2 player. Same with Quick who signed his current deal in November of 2009.[/quote]

Explain this to me like I was five...

 

[CLWolf81]

Re: Can the Hawks sign Niemi at $4m without losing a core pi

[quote name="jtalarico328"]Believe me, I'm not in the "sign Niemi no matter what" camp. I'm not completely sold on him being worth 4 million. But if we lose him, I worry that he might be. He showed me enough last season to worry about losing him.[/quote]



Never forget that Turco is on the market as well, and I'm sure for the chance at a Cup, he'd be willing to budge for less than the likely amount Niemi would get. I hope Niemi realizes this.

 

[Drdudz]

Re: Makarov signs 2 year Deal

If arbitrator screws us w/Niemi or a preemptive contract can't get done, take Turco to a nice Canadian strip club. Ply him with drinks and lap dances and get a handshake deal to sign him for $2-2.5M the day after Huet is sent to Hogs! Goalie situation solved!!! Sharpie stays!



:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[nana]

Re: Can the Hawks sign Niemi at $4m without losing a core pi

[quote name="CLWolf81"]



Never forget that Turco is on the market as well, and I'm sure for the chance at a Cup, he'd be willing to budge for less than the likely amount Niemi would get. I hope Niemi realizes this.[/quote]



If we are losing one player that was on the 1996 UM championship team, it only makes sense to keep the streak alive and add another for this season. Maybe Red will come coach with Q?

 

[MassHavoc]

Re: Can the Hawks sign Niemi at $4m without losing a core pi

If not paying Niemi 4 mil long term means we get stuck with Turco for a year, I'm willing to take that risk.

 

[Rex]

Re: Can the Hawks sign Niemi at $4m without losing a core pi

[quote name="Kerfuffle"]I suspect John Scott will "play" 60 games or more from the press box. So I wouldn't put him in as a 4th liner.[/quote]



he's a defensemen, so I wouldn't put him as a 4th liner either.