OFF8CIAL: Found a sucker for Bickell

[DMelt36]

Cap trades suck. How many prospects have we had to trade away in cap related moves? Not to mention players themselves. But I guess that's what you gotta do when you have two guys making like 10M a year.

The craziest part about the salary cap era in the NHL is that, even when the cap seems to be restricting teams from having long-term, sustained success, three teams have combined to win 8 Cups in the last decade.

 

[clonetrooper264]

The craziest part about the salary cap era in the NHL is that, even when the cap seems to be restricting teams from having long-term, sustained success, three teams have combined to win 8 Cups in the last decade.

Yeah...it seems more like the cap just prevents repeat champions

 

[DJMoore_is_fat]

Finally - we dump that worthless piece of crap in Bickell. Yes, it's unfortunate we had to move TT in the process. He's young and talented but we already have Kane and the Bread Man. We'll be just fine with out him. The grittiness that Shaw brings to the table is much, much more important.

Hopefully we can get a few vet ring chasers on one-year deals. We have a few glaring holes that need to be fixed. After the salary dump purge of 2010, it seemed unlikely Bowman would be able to re-tool after gutting the team. But in 2013 and 2015 he did it again and again.

The core of Toews, Kane, Seabrook, Keith, Nic and Hossa have one more championship in them.

 

[HawkWriter]

LOL @ "most people." Who's that, the three people who post in this forum? All the people who agree with you?

He didn't deserve to be in the Top 6 this past year even though he had the fourth highest scoring rate and only trailed the team's captain, the league's leading scorer, and the league's soon-to-be Calder Trophy winner.

He didn't take advantage of the chances even though he had the highest scoring rate among players who played 1LW alongside Toews and Hossa.

But in spite of all those statistical facts, he was still too soft. Riiiiiiiiiiiight.

I get it...you are a TT fanboy. Everyone can see that. You will continue to pick one stat here, one clip there, etc etc that might help your case. If you watch the game, if you watch TT then you will see that the game is played on the ice and not on paper. If TT was the best scoring 1LW for Toews/Hossa, then why didn't he stay there? Something that you have to watch to understand. I know you have watched, but you have to stop relying on the paper stats.

TT has potential but he has several flaws that are holding him back from that potential. One of them is that he is soft and I know I am riiiiiight about that.

 

[DMelt36]

I get it...you are a TT fanboy.

No, you don't.

I get it...you are a TT fanboy. Everyone can see that. You will continue to pick one stat here, one clip there, etc etc that might help your case. If you watch the game, if you watch TT then you will see that the game is played on the ice and not on paper. If TT was the best scoring 1LW for Toews/Hossa, then why didn't he stay there? Something that you have to watch to understand. I know you have watched, but you have to stop relying on the paper stats.

TT has potential but he has several flaws that are holding him back from that potential. One of them is that he is soft and I know I am riiiiiight about that.

Rule 1 of arguing on the Internet: when the facts don't support your argument, disregard the facts.

 

[DMelt36]

Yeah...it seems more like the cap just prevents repeat champions

Still really disappointed that the the Hawks couldn't repeat one of these years. That's one of the few things the Wings' run in the 90s/00s has over this current Hawks run. That and a fourth Cup.

 

[Novak]

Still really disappointed that the the Hawks couldn't repeat one of these years. That's one of the few things the Wings' run in the 90s/00s has over this current Hawks run. That and a fourth Cup.

We're screwed without TT now. That 4th cup will NEVER come!

 

[DMelt36]

I'm not even sure why "softness" is part of the equation here. The whole team is soft. No one in the league hits less. It's the style they play and it's been successful because they bring in players that fit that style. MOF, if you look around the hitfest that the playoffs used to be has dropped off...the two teams in the Finals were 12th and 23rd in hits.

Speed and skill is name of the game.

That was my biggest takeaway from the SCF this year. Pittsburgh was so goddam fast. And in the last few years, the Hawks have progressively gotten slower. Losing guys like Leddy, Saad, Sharp and now Teuvo while some of the players they've added weren't exactly speedsters: Ladd, Weise, Fleischmann, etc.

 

[HawkWriter]

No, you don't.



Rule 1 of arguing on the Internet: when the facts don't support your argument, disregard the facts.

Well, apparently the Blackhawks disregarded the facts/stats and chose to keep someone (likely Shaw) who doesn't have the facts/stats that you are tossing up there. Because...clearly it is all about the facts/stats. The game is played on the ice, not on a piece of paper.

I've given plenty of observations and solid reasons as to why TT is soft and why (I believe) he is going to struggle to fill his potential because of his soft play.

There is no debating you over TT. You've been a huge fan of his since day 1 around here even though the past 3 years should have softened your stance (even just a little) on his future, it hasn't.

 

[DMelt36]

LOL like the Hawks were actively shopping Teuvo, not reluctantly adding him to a trade because they fucked themselves with a shitty contract to Bickeel.

Now go ahead and get the last word in so I don't have to waste any more time with this.

 

[ClydeLee]

I don't see the problem here, those per 60 stats show Richard Panik is the best of those other 3 guys who played besides Toews. So we got the best piece at 850k..

Why was Panik left off those charts by people... because it is irrelevant or because it doesn't suit that argument or because its silly as it's a tiny sample size.... that's also true of Teuvo it's a tiny sample size. There was less than 7 games he played with a set spot playing besides Toews-Hossa and the plays he made where he scored 2 goals in a bit of that time where him more comfortably taking the puck on the right end boards. Where he's familiar and better set on his off wing.

Shaw and Ladd had more like 30 and 17 games in these roles when it was used. They are gonna likely have worse /60 simply because of the time there. If Teuvo played more his /60 would absolutely of dropped more than succeeded. It's a limited metric without factors of actual game time played attributed as well.

 

[HawkWriter]

LOL like the Hawks were actively shopping Teuvo, not reluctantly adding him to a trade because they fucked themselves with a shitty contract to Bickeel.

Now go ahead and get the last word in so I don't have to waste any more time with this.

Why are you saying that as if it is some argument against my position here? Everyone knows that the Blackhawks weren't actively shopping TT and everyone knows they had to trade him in order to get rid of Bickell. Literally everyone that is aware of this trade in the slightest knows exactly why this deal went down. It's as if you are running out of things to say so you are just stating the painfully obvious that everyone is in agreement with.

 

[DMelt36]

I don't see the problem here, those per 60 stats show Richard Panik is the best of those other 3 guys who played besides Toews. So we got the best piece at 850k..

Why was Panik left off those charts by people... because it is irrelevant or because it doesn't suit that argument or because its silly as it's a tiny sample size.... that's also true of Teuvo it's a tiny sample size. There was less than 7 games he played with a set spot playing besides Toews-Hossa and the plays he made where he scored 2 goals in a bit of that time where him more comfortably taking the puck on the right end boards. Where he's familiar and better set on his off wing.

Shaw and Ladd had more like 30 and 17 games in these roles when it was used. They are gonna likely have worse /60 simply because of the time there. If Teuvo played more his /60 would absolutely of dropped more than succeeded.

Where'd you see that? I've been looking all over to find that one and wasn't having any luck.

Edit: Found it, finally.

And your sample size point is well-taken. But I think there's a point to be made there that Q bailed on that particular top line too soon.

 

[ClydeLee]

Where'd you see that? I've been looking all over to find that one and wasn't having any luck.

Edit: Found it, finally.

And your sample size point is well-taken. But I think there's a point to be made there that Q bailed on that particular top line too soon.

I think on twitter of blackhawks breakdown, I guess it was primary points especially but with his little time Panik as 1st LW had production right up there.

https://blackhawksbreakdown.wordpress.com/2016/06/13/top-line-left-wing-charts/

 

[DMelt36]

Why are you saying that as if it is some argument against my position here? Everyone knows that the Blackhawks weren't actively shopping TT and everyone knows they had to trade him in order to get rid of Bickell. Literally everyone that is aware of this trade in the slightest knows exactly why this deal went down. It's as if you are running out of things to say so you are just stating the painfully obvious that everyone is in agreement with.

Well since you casually tossed aside statistical arguments, which are factual, and keep resorting to things that cannot be statistically measured or corroborated such as the how you view the game, there's no point in talking to you anymore.

 

[DMelt36]

I think on twitter of blackhawks breakdown, I guess it was primary points especially but with his little time Panik as 1st LW had production right up there.

https://blackhawksbreakdown.wordpress.com/2016/06/13/top-line-left-wing-charts/

Yeah I found it and added it to my above post. That's one hell of a Twitter account to follow. Tons of good analytical information that is always Hawks-focused. Learned a ton of things about the team in the last few years that I wasn't aware of.

 

[Ares]

DMelt, even the little kid in that commercial with Crow and TT and Shaw would be like "You need to cool ur jets...."

 

[Bigfoot]

Melt, I think it came down to the Hawks viewed Teuvo as expendable, they seem to be higher on Schmaltz. Teuvo play regressed from what we saw at in the 2015 Cup finals. Cold be numerous reasons why, what I saw from Teuvo was an laid back approach to board battles, holding one hand one the stick and just stabbing at the puck, he also gets moved off the puck easily. Alot of times when he was on the ice, and we dumped it I to our zone, we lost possession of the puck.

Kid may reach his hyped potential, but it seems the Hawks didn't think his ceiling was going to be higher with in our Organization.

 

[ClydeLee]

I think overlooked beyond just what Shcmaltz may add to replace Teuvo, but they do have several other diminutive in stature skill guys that had gotten their feet wet last year. Hinostroza, Kero (both winger/center flexible) both had some flashes and Hino is fast and Q seemed to like his game, Kero actually was PKing besides Kruger in the time he was his winger in games.

Maybe they aren't top 6 high prospects unless they flourish like Teuvo is already close to. They don't have his mental anticipation but they all (least being Hino) have a 2 way game credit to them, both Motte/Schmaltz were key PKers for their college teams and Motte did it for the US WC team.

I would think you are looking to say, well who plays 3rd line center if Teuvo could of done that at least if hes not in top 6 spots. Well like last year that 3rd line is largely likely to be young again with more Kero/Hino/Rasmussen[though hopefully he stays and re-signs cheap there was a rumor he may sign over in europe]

Not to say Teuvo isn't better than them all as he is currently but the team isn't devoid of the skill prospects like some saying. Actually apart from Hartman and McNeil the likely to play or soon to play size/body types are further away in development. .. can we trade back for Bigfoot?

 

[Gustavus Adolphus]

Too bad DMelt and HawkWriter drove Capt. Serious off the board. Would have loved to hear his take on all of this.