Official Offseason Thread...Around The Majors

Status
Not open for further replies.

Rice Cube

World Series Dreaming
Donator
Joined:
Jun 7, 2011
Posts:
18,077
Liked Posts:
3,472
Location:
Chicago
dabynsky said:
This is excellent news though I would still be surprised to see the Cubs offer arbitration. More than likely Pena will be the fallback option for teams that miss out on Fielder and Pujols which means that the Cubs will have declined arby by the time teams really start going after Pena.
Click to expand...

Additionally, if Pena for some reason accepts arbitration, the Cubs can only submit a one-year offer and I doubt he wants that. My guess is both Pena and Ramirez would decline arbitration which sets the Cubs up for compensation.
 
dabynsky

dabynsky

Fringe Average Mod
Donator
Joined:
May 17, 2010
Posts:
13,947
Liked Posts:
3,118
Rice Cube said:
Additionally, if Pena for some reason accepts arbitration, the Cubs can only submit a one-year offer and I doubt he wants that. My guess is both Pena and Ramirez would decline arbitration which sets the Cubs up for compensation.
Click to expand...

I suppose so, but I am not sure the Cubs will gamble that Pena will decline it since it might mean they are stuck with him for 12+million for next year.

Ramirez is a no brainer to offer abry to since he will command a multiyear deal in this market. I am just not convinced that Pena will.
 
Last edited:

Rice Cube

World Series Dreaming
Donator
Joined:
Jun 7, 2011
Posts:
18,077
Liked Posts:
3,472
Location:
Chicago
dabynsky said:
I suppose so, but I am not sure the Cubs will gamble that Pena will decline it since it might mean they are stuck with him for 12+million for next year.

Ramirez is a no brainer to offer abry too since he will command a multiyear deal in this market. I am just not convinced that Pena will.
Click to expand...

Well, here's the deal...whoever doesn't get Pujols/Fielder but still need a 1B might still sign Pena as a fallback. Cubs have until 11/23 to offer arbitration and Pena has to accept it by December 7th. It is a gamble, for sure.

It's definitely not a no-brainer, but I'm going to wager that the Cubs have talked to the agent (Scott Boras) who is interested in getting his client the most money. Boras won't let Pena just stay with the Cubs for a season when it's obvious that they didn't actually want him when he could get a 3-year deal for more overall money somewhere else. Therefore they only offer arbitration if there's an "under the table" agreement in place where he'll decline it no matter what.
 

Jntg4

Fire Forum Moderator
Donator
Joined:
Apr 26, 2010
Posts:
26,017
Liked Posts:
3,297
Location:
Minnesota
My favorite teams
  1. Chicago White Sox
  2. Chicago Cubs
  1. Chicago Fire
  1. Chicago Bulls
  1. Chicago Bears
  1. Chicago Blackhawks
  1. Chicago State Cougars
  2. DePaul Blue Demons
  3. Illinois-Chicago Flames
  4. Loyola Ramblers
  5. Northern Illinois Huskies
  6. Northwestern Wildcats
Wiggington to Phuckedelphia.
 

daddies3angels

Is it next year yet?
Donator
Joined:
Apr 17, 2010
Posts:
10,038
Liked Posts:
819
Location:
Peoria IL
Justin Verlander Wins AL MVP
By Tim Dierkes [November 21 at 1:00pm CST]
Justin Verlander won the American League MVP award, according to the Baseball Writers Association of America. Verlander took home the AL's Cy Young award last week. He's the first pitcher to win the MVP since Dennis Eckersley in 1992, and the first starter since Roger Clemens in '86.

Jacoby Ellsbury, Jose Bautista, Curtis Granderson, Miguel Cabrera, Robinson Cano, Adrian Gonzalez, Michael Young, Dustin Pedroia, and Evan Longoria rounded out the top ten. Ian Kinsler, Alex Avila, Paul Konerko, C.C. Sabathia, Adrian Beltre, Ben Zobrist, Victor Martinez, James Shields, Mark Teixeira, Asdrubal Cabrera, Alex Gordon, Josh Hamilton, and David Robertson also received votes.
Click to expand...


Just me but i think its a joke that a pitcher wins MVP. Pitches 35 games while guys who play 150+ dont get it. Pitchers have the CY YOUNG!! Hitters dont have anything but MVP.
 

Rice Cube

World Series Dreaming
Donator
Joined:
Jun 7, 2011
Posts:
18,077
Liked Posts:
3,472
Location:
Chicago
I think it was defensible. I mean, he ate up a huge number of innings and was the pitcher of record in most of his starts. I would have preferred that Jose Bautista won but I don't think you can argue how valuable Verlander was.
 

Captain Obvious

CCS Donator
Donator
Joined:
Jul 31, 2010
Posts:
4,967
Liked Posts:
697
daddies3angels said:
Justin Verlander Wins AL MVP
By Tim Dierkes [November 21 at 1:00pm CST]



Just me but i think its a joke that a pitcher wins MVP. Pitches 35 games while guys who play 150+ dont get it. Pitchers have the CY YOUNG!! Hitters dont have anything but MVP.
Click to expand...

He did have the highest WAR of any player, according to BR. The argument could be made for him.
 
nwfisch

nwfisch

Hall of Famer
Donator
CCS Hall of Fame '21
Joined:
Nov 12, 2010
Posts:
25,053
Liked Posts:
11,503
My favorite teams
  1. Chicago Cubs
  1. Minnesota United FC
  1. Chicago Bulls
  1. Chicago Bears
  1. Chicago Blackhawks
  1. Notre Dame Fighting Irish
Not only that, a pitcher influences more at bats than a batter does, so that case could be made.

That said, I find Roy Halladay and Sabathia to be more valuable than Verlander, but congrats.
 
Uman85

Uman85

Oh Yeah.
Donator
Joined:
Apr 10, 2011
Posts:
16,341
Liked Posts:
5,990
nwfisch said:
Not only that, a pitcher influences more at bats than a batter does, so that case could be made.

That said, I find Roy Halladay and Sabathia to be more valuable than Verlander, but congrats.
Click to expand...

They may be more valuable as a whole, but Verlander truly was the most valuable to his team this year IMO. Without him, Detroit doesn't make it out of the first round of the playoffs, and maybe wouldn't have even made it that far.
 
nwfisch

nwfisch

Hall of Famer
Donator
CCS Hall of Fame '21
Joined:
Nov 12, 2010
Posts:
25,053
Liked Posts:
11,503
My favorite teams
  1. Chicago Cubs
  1. Minnesota United FC
  1. Chicago Bulls
  1. Chicago Bears
  1. Chicago Blackhawks
  1. Notre Dame Fighting Irish
Uman85 said:
They may be more valuable as a whole, but Verlander truly was the most valuable to his team this year IMO. Without him, Detroit doesn't make it out of the first round of the playoffs, and maybe wouldn't have even made it that far.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I was surprised that Halladay or Sabbaithia didn't win one.

25 years since a pitcher won MVP:thinking:
 
Uman85

Uman85

Oh Yeah.
Donator
Joined:
Apr 10, 2011
Posts:
16,341
Liked Posts:
5,990
nwfisch said:
Yeah, I was surprised that Halladay or Sabbaithia didn't win one.

25 years since a pitcher won MVP:thinking:
Click to expand...

I think what hurts their case for an MVP is that they have so many more productive teammates. Playing on the Phillies and Yankees, you know the teams are going to be stacked, so it's hard to determine one true MVP on their respective teams.
 

daddies3angels

Is it next year yet?
Donator
Joined:
Apr 17, 2010
Posts:
10,038
Liked Posts:
819
Location:
Peoria IL
There was a tweet showing how WAR is a joke. Granderson not even in top 10 in AL. He had great year
 

Rice Cube

World Series Dreaming
Donator
Joined:
Jun 7, 2011
Posts:
18,077
Liked Posts:
3,472
Location:
Chicago
daddies3angels said:
There was a tweet showing how WAR is a joke. Granderson not even in top 10 in AL. He had great year
Click to expand...

Depended on which defensive metric they were using. WAR is a fairly good guideline for the most part to compare players but it isn't without its flaws.
 

Rice Cube

World Series Dreaming
Donator
Joined:
Jun 7, 2011
Posts:
18,077
Liked Posts:
3,472
Location:
Chicago
Captain Obvious said:
Depends which WAR you use. I hate that there are 2. There needs to be one.
Click to expand...

There are more than just the FanGraphs and B-Ref calculations. Basically they have different inputs for offense, defense and baserunning (for position players) and also differ on which pitching metrics are used. The main flaw for WAR is in the defensive component because I don't think anyone has ever created a consistent system for measuring that, so WAR should be taken with a grain of salt no matter what. I think it's useful as a comparative tool, though.
 

Rice Cube

World Series Dreaming
Donator
Joined:
Jun 7, 2011
Posts:
18,077
Liked Posts:
3,472
Location:
Chicago
Texas just signed Joe Nathan. Time to start ramping up those Carlos Marmol trade mechanisms before every other team signs a closer :lol:
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

10,928members
95,551threads
4,526,928posts
452online users

Members online NOW

  • Member
  • Admin
  • Mod
  • Donor
  • HOF
Total: 452 (members: 28, guests: 424)

Staff online NOW

Top