Official Offseason Thread - CUBS edition

[2SeamHeat]

If they don't spend and they don't release Soriano...

Soriano ----> 1B

It might just work.

Soriano sucks at LF... 1B that can no longer play 1B, get moved to play LF and usually do OK. Could you imagine the number of lazy "olay" swipes at balls in the dirt at 1B if Soriano were there? You could add probably 20 errors a year to everyone on the IF, and possibly double Castro's errors with Soriano at 1B.

The only thing I think Soriano could truly do well at this point is DH.

 

[Rice Cube]

Soriano sucks at LF... 1B that can no longer play 1B, get moved to play LF and usually do OK. Could you imagine the number of lazy "olay" swipes at balls in the dirt at 1B if Soriano were there? You could add probably 20 errors a year to everyone on the IF, and possibly double Castro's errors with Soriano at 1B.

The only thing I think Soriano could truly do well at this point is DH.

I think we're thinking of the defensive spectrum differently. 1B is the easiest position on the diamond to play because you don't need the arm strength, you barely need range, and you basically need to catch. Adam Dunn and Paul Konerko aren't exactly defensive powerhouses but they are put there because that's literally the only spot they can go until they are banished to DH.

I think it's worthwhile to try.

 

[2SeamHeat]

I think we're thinking of the defensive spectrum differently. 1B is the easiest position on the diamond to play because you don't need the arm strength, you barely need range, and you basically need to catch. Adam Dunn and Paul Konerko aren't exactly defensive powerhouses but they are put there because that's literally the only spot they can go until they are banished to DH.

I think it's worthwhile to try.

But you have to be reactionary. You do have to have range, but quicker, short-motion range. You do have to have a decent arm, especially when trying to start DPs or gun down a fast runner with a good break at another base. Now, Soriano has a good arm. But he showed he can barely catch balls thrown to 2B while playing there. How do you think he'll do digging out balls in the dirt from 3B or SS with a ton of velocity behind them? How do you think he'll do when he has to stretch those hamstrings and groin muscles to reach balls 4-6 feet off target? How do you think he'll do charging a bunt hit to him?

If Soriano actually put effort into his play, I'd think there might be a chance. Unfortunately, he doesn't.

 

[Rice Cube]

I think Soriano looks like he's lazy but he has a reputation for being one of the hardest-working players on the team according to his teammates.

If I can dig balls out of the dirt, Soriano can. There's a difference between a batted ball and a thrown ball. Most guys at 1B aren't that good at defense anyway; it's not a premium defensive position. I think you can do okay hiding Soriano there until you can unload him onto an AL team.

 

[2SeamHeat]

I think Soriano looks like he's lazy but he has a reputation for being one of the hardest-working players on the team according to his teammates.

If I can dig balls out of the dirt, Soriano can. There's a difference between a batted ball and a thrown ball. Most guys at 1B aren't that good at defense anyway; it's not a premium defensive position. I think you can do okay hiding Soriano there until you can unload him onto an AL team.

You might be right, but I remember the drops he made with Texas trying to tag runners out that wound up not being called errors. I remember the drops that were called errors. I just don't think he can do it. And I understand what his reputation is, but that's due to how he trains or practices. That effort disappears during the game.

 

[waldo7239117]

There have been reports that Fonzie won't be back next year and that means a release more than anything. But I guess we'll see.

 

[Rice Cube]

There have been reports that Fonzie won't be back next year and that means a release more than anything. But I guess we'll see.

That will be up to the next GM and how much Ricketts is willing to eat.

I think it doesn't hurt to give Soriano a few reps at first during spring training to see how he handles it. For the most part you could put a statue at first base and the shortstop will hit him about 95% of the time. First base defense is overrated.

 

[waldo7239117]

I just can't see Soriano at 1B. The thought of it is laughable but we never know. It's gunna be different to see what the Cubs do because were all use to JH and know how he performs.

 

[daddies3angels]

There have been reports that Fonzie won't be back next year and that means a release more than anything. But I guess we'll see.

Might have been opition BEFORE Z thing. Z going to be released so really doubt Ricketts will eat 2 big contracts.

 

[daddies3angels]

I just can't see Soriano at 1B. The thought of it is laughable but we never know. It's gunna be different to see what the Cubs do because were all use to JH and know how he performs.

I also have hard time seeing Soriano at 1B.

 

[Rice Cube]

I also have hard time seeing Soriano at 1B.

It's unorthodox, but you never know until you try.

 

[Captain Obvious]

And yet I see no reason with the amount of cash coming off the books that you can't get Wilson/Fielder if that's the route you wish to go.

However, I think you're better off going with Berkman/Wilson... for it will allow you to make a move at 3B as well, so you don't drop off with losing ARam... and you still upgrade 1B and the rotation.

Edwin Jackson is talented flop. You're talking about a guy who had 1 decent to good season in his career to date. This season might turn into his second... but even those seasons are pretty 'meh'. The guy is already making $8.35M this year.... how much do you think it'll cost to sign him this winter?

Do you honestly think paying $10M+ for a guy whose career line is 59-60 (yes I know this is more a resemblance of the teams he's played for), 4.49 ERA, 1.475 WHIP, 97 ERA+, 6.68K/9IP, 1.82K/BB, and a 9.9 WAR is something we should pursue?

You're talking about Kyle Lohse here. Victor Zambrano, Livan Hernandez, Jeff Weaver..... in other words... MEDIOCRITY. Hasn't this team thrown millions at mediocrity enough?

Couple things here
A) What makes you think Ramirez would walk? I see no way he leaves, unless the cubs decline his option and don't offer him a contract.

B) If the Cubs do sign Berkman, I will be very disappointed. He is basically another Carlos Pena. It isn't going in any definitive direction.

First, there's a difference between Soriano's .284 OBP and Pena's .346. Second, Pena has a 115 OPS+, where Soriano holds a 104. Thirdly Pena has equal or better numbers than Soriano across the board. Fourth, Pena even with his overly inflated cost... costs just a bit over half of what Soriano does. Fifthly, Soriano sucks at LF... which is literally where you put players out to pasture... before sending them to DH. Pena is at least a decent defensive 1B. Six, Pena is an actual leader in the clubhouse... where Soriano has been shown to be iffy there (a few positives, several negatives)

On top of this, I see very few clamoring to have Pena back. I see them placing him in that "if we have to" category.

Soriano has shown to be iffy? What negatives are you talking about? To my knowledge, he hasn't done anything bad at all. However, I'd love to hear what you have to say about this.

But you have to be reactionary. You do have to have range, but quicker, short-motion range. You do have to have a decent arm, especially when trying to start DPs or gun down a fast runner with a good break at another base. Now, Soriano has a good arm. But he showed he can barely catch balls thrown to 2B while playing there. How do you think he'll do digging out balls in the dirt from 3B or SS with a ton of velocity behind them? How do you think he'll do when he has to stretch those hamstrings and groin muscles to reach balls 4-6 feet off target? How do you think he'll do charging a bunt hit to him?

If Soriano actually put effort into his play, I'd think there might be a chance. Unfortunately, he doesn't.

He doesn't put effort into his play? You've got to be kidding me...

You might be right, but I remember the drops he made with Texas trying to tag runners out that wound up not being called errors. I remember the drops that were called errors. I just don't think he can do it. And I understand what his reputation is, but that's due to how he trains or practices. That effort disappears during the game.

That effort most certainly does not disappear. Soriano works his ass off, he's just getting older and doesn't have the ability he once did. Soriano's effort is definitely not a concern.

 

[daddies3angels]

It's unorthodox, but you never know until you try.

Honestly if they dont get Fielder i rather see Sori go to 1B, Jackson LF, Byrd CF, Colvin RF then them signing Pena to 2 year deal.

 

[Captain Obvious]

Honestly if they dont get Fielder i rather see Sori go to 1B, Jackson LF, Byrd CF, Colvin RF then them signing Pena to 2 year deal.

I'd rather just have Colvin go to 1B in that scenario.

 

[daddies3angels]

First, there's a difference between Soriano's .284 OBP and Pena's .346. Second, Pena has a 115 OPS+, where Soriano holds a 104. Thirdly Pena has equal or better numbers than Soriano across the board. Fourth, Pena even with his overly inflated cost... costs just a bit over half of what Soriano does. Fifthly, Soriano sucks at LF... which is literally where you put players out to pasture... before sending them to DH. Pena is at least a decent defensive 1B. Six, Pena is an actual leader in the clubhouse... where Soriano has been shown to be iffy there (a few positives, several negatives)

On top of this, I see very few clamoring to have Pena back. I see them placing him in that "if we have to" category.

I said the only big difference is OBP cause of Pena walks. Yes Pena has equal numbers of Soriano and thats my point. I dont care aobut leader in clubhouse. I dont pay someone to be clubleader. If a team wins chemistry will be great. If team loses then chemistry bad. Just how it works. Another stat that i cant find right now is that Pena is hitting under .200 with runners in scoring position. For a middle of order bat that not good...I like to see what Soriano is

 

[Rice Cube]

I'd rather just have Colvin go to 1B in that scenario.

I think Colvin is faster and has better range at this point. So you want the rangy-er guy in the OF. If Soriano isn't released they should think about maximizing his offensive production at 1B.

 

[Captain Obvious]

I think Colvin is faster and has better range at this point. So you want the rangy-er guy in the OF. If Soriano isn't released they should think about maximizing his offensive production at 1B.

Yeah but in the long term, we have more OFers who will/could amount to something than we have at 1B. Same goes with the FA market. Should Colvin be able to "figure it out," he gives us more value at 1B than in the OF, IMO.

 

[daddies3angels]

Pena hitting .158 with runners in scoring postion...Soriano .250...I just find it funny that guys ok with Pena being 1B if they sign Wilson while he has basically same numbers as Soriano who Cub fans hate. I realize Soriano makes 9 mil more then Pena but are those numbers really something cubs want to pay 10 mil + for? I honestly think Lahair could hit .220 25 HR 75 RBI just like Pena and make league min.

Carlos Pena Stats, Bio, Photos, Highlights | cubs.com: Team'

Alfonso Soriano Stats, Bio, Photos, Highlights | cubs.com: Team'

 

[Rice Cube]

Yeah but in the long term, we have more OFers who will/could amount to something than we have at 1B. Same goes with the FA market. Should Colvin be able to "figure it out," he gives us more value at 1B than in the OF, IMO.

I think that gets ahead of themselves though. If Colvin continues to put up a putrid line he needs to stay in the outfield to at least accumulate value. Soriano is a different case. You have a guy with power who can still be useful with the bat, but who can't run anymore and can't play defense out there, and who might not be easily released. So to kill multiple birds with one stone, put your expensive-as-hell declining power hitter at first base and hope for the best.

 

[Captain Obvious]

I think that gets ahead of themselves though. If Colvin continues to put up a putrid line he needs to stay in the outfield to at least accumulate value. Soriano is a different case. You have a guy with power who can still be useful with the bat, but who can't run anymore and can't play defense out there, and who might not be easily released. So to kill multiple birds with one stone, put your expensive-as-hell declining power hitter at first base and hope for the best.

I suppose that's true if you think Soriano can be a serviceable defensive 1B, which I don't think he can be I think he'd be absolutely terrible there.