Official WhiteSox Trade Discussion VOL 1

[GrinderBall41]

How can you argue against the players with the higher BABIP's being usually speed guys and the lower BABIP guys be slower players? That screams correlation to me. There is factual evidence, I don't see hwo you can argue against it.

Also grinderball is right, HR's aren't factored into BABIP.

Im totally confused by your point... are you saying a fast guy will have a higher BABIP than a slow guy even if neither has any infield hits?

 

[hsvj60]

CQ is a one year fluke man, he hasn't looked nearly as good since 2008 and he is never coming back. Just forget about him.


Why the hell would you want to sell our starters at their lowest trade value right now? That's not smart GM'ing 101 and I agree with grinderball.

:smoke:I'm no GM just a lifetime fan and as a fan I want to watch players who play with their fucken balls in their hand and their hearts on the sleeve. To me this band of fuck up has gotten me puking everytime I listen to a game or watch them. Our manager is the biggest fucken dipshit this side of Mars and our GM has no BALLS!!! Our pitchers won't go inside our defense sucks our hitting is a myth in Greek Mythology and if I'm going to rebuild I want this whle bucket of pig slop gone!!! Sorry guys I'm not a good GM:smh:

 

[DewsSox79]

my sources told me the sox were trying to get connor jackson. looks like that fell apart.

 

[BigP50]

yeah, he went to the A's.

 

[Got teeth? Keith doesn't.]

Im totally confused by your point... are you saying a fast guy will have a higher BABIP than a slow guy even if neither has any infield hits?

I never really even mentioned that but alright.

:smoke:I'm no GM just a lifetime fan and as a fan I want to watch players who play with their fucken balls in their hand and their hearts on the sleeve. To me this band of fuck up has gotten me puking everytime I listen to a game or watch them. Our manager is the biggest fucken dipshit this side of Mars and our GM has no BALLS!!! Our pitchers won't go inside our defense sucks our hitting is a myth in Greek Mythology and if I'm going to rebuild I want this whle bucket of pig slop gone!!! Sorry guys I'm not a good GM:smh:

It's not that KW doesn't have any balls, it's just that Jerry isn't letting KW fire Ozzie.

 

[BigP50]

Jerry is so happy that Ozzie got us that World Series that he wont let Kenny fire him for who knows how long.

 

[Lefty]

How can you argue against the players with the higher BABIP's being usually speed guys and the lower BABIP guys be slower players? That screams correlation to me. There is factual evidence, I don't see hwo you can argue against it.

I looked at the leaderboards on FanGraphs for both 2008 and 2009 (301 data points), and looked at how BABIP correlates with Speed Score (a better teller of speed than just stolen bases) and got an R-squared of 0.08.

So I guess you're right when you say that there is "factual evidence" that speed correlates with BABIP in a positive manner....to the tune of about 8% of BABIP being explained by speed. Quite a difference-maker in that regard, wouldn't you say?

 

[Got teeth? Keith doesn't.]

I'd trust SB's over Speed Score, I've heard nothing but the system is flawed.

 

[DewsSox79]

if ozzie gets fired, it will be after the season.

if jr doesnt want him fired i see kw walking away

 

[Lefty]

I'd trust SB's over Speed Score, I've heard nothing but the system is flawed.

Fine, I'll do it your way....correlating Stolen Bases with BABIP from 2009 and 2008, we get a coefficient of determination of.....: 0.076. So yeah, you're still wrong.

 

[Got teeth? Keith doesn't.]

Fine, I'll do it your way....correlating Stolen Bases with BABIP from 2009 and 2008, we get a coefficient of determination of.....: 0.076. So yeah, you're still wrong.

Mind showing me the graph for this?

 

[Lefty]

BABIP (vertical) graphed as a function of Stolen Bases (horizontal)

You were better off accepting Speed Score as your measure of player speed, because at least then.............nah, you'd still look like a complete doof, because the coefficient of determinations for both are near total randomness. (And yes, I know you can draw a horizontal line straight through the data points that looks alright, but that doesn't imply correlation of any kind)

 

[FedEx227]

Also grinderball is right, HR's aren't factored into BABIP.

Yes, he is right I understand that.

My point is for someone who's game is reliant on homers, when hits that once were homers (not counted thus far less chances) turn into flyouts (counted and now 15-20 more flyouts than he would've had a previous year) you're going to have a dramatically lower BABIP than the previous year most likely. Also it's likely you're drawing less contact overall and thus some gap doubles/almost homers turn into flyouts. Or just plain unlucky.

See Bradley, Milton.

That or Quentin isn't the speed demon he once was and thus can't run out grounders which his game apparently was dependent on in 2008.

 

[Got teeth? Keith doesn't.]

BABIP (vertical) graphed as a function of Stolen Bases (horizontal)

You were better off accepting Speed Score as your measure of player speed, because at least then.............nah, you'd still look like a complete doof, because the coefficient of determinations for both are near total randomness. (And yes, I know you can draw a horizontal line straight through the data points that looks alright, but that doesn't imply correlation of any kind)

That's pretty interesting, thanks for the graph. I always thought BABIP and speed correlate (well, they do, kind of) more since you see all the speedsters with the higher marks and the slow footed, usually high power/high OBP guys with lower BABIP.

Yes, he is right I understand that.

My point is for someone who's game is reliant on homers, when hits that once were homers (not counted thus far less chances) turn into flyouts (counted and now 15-20 more flyouts than he would've had a previous year) you're going to have a dramatically lower BABIP than the previous year most likely. Also it's likely you're drawing less contact overall and thus some gap doubles/almost homers turn into flyouts. Or just plain unlucky.

See Bradley, Milton.

That or Quentin isn't the speed demon he once was and thus can't run out grounders which his game apparently was dependent on in 2008.

You said it bro, not me.

 

[Rush]

What in the fuck are you guys talking about? Calculus?

 

[FedEx227]

Yes, but apparently you aren't aware of sarcasm.

So, um... I was being sarcastic.

 

[Got teeth? Keith doesn't.]

Yes, but apparently you aren't aware of sarcasm.

So, um... I was being sarcastic.

To have made that a relevant sarcastic remark would be me blatantly implying it or saying it and then you exaggerating it...in which case I didn't.

 

[Lefty]

That's pretty interesting, thanks for the graph. I always thought BABIP and speed correlate (well, they do, kind of) more since you see all the speedsters with the higher marks and the slow footed, usually high power/high OBP guys with lower BABIP.

But they don't, really. Speed (as measured either by Speed Score or Stolen Bases) explains, at most, 8 percent of BABIP and has a 0.27 correlation coefficient. That's 1) a weak correlation and 2) hardly a significant explanation of variance.

 

[Got teeth? Keith doesn't.]

But they don't, really. Speed (as measured either by Speed Score or Stolen Bases) explains, at most, 8 percent of BABIP and has a 0.27 correlation coefficient. That's 1) a weak correlation and 2) hardly a significant explanation of variance.

But it is a correlation

 

[Lefty]

But it is a correlation

Well, we have yet to have the "correlation does not mean causation" talk, and I can't perform a regression analysis anymore, so you'll just have to take me at my word: correlation does not mean causation.