Offseason discussion/rumors

[beckdawg]

ACCORDING TO PETER GAMMONS, THE WHITE SOX ASKED THE ASTROS FOR FRANCIS MARTES, KYLE TUCKER AND JOE MUSGROVE IN EXCHANGE FOR JOSE QUINTANA.

With the return package that White Sox general manager Rick Hahn was able to secure from the Nationals in the Adam Eaton trade, it's no wonder that he's shooting for the moon in every possible deal. It seems likely though that he'll have to lower his demands as the offseason progresses if he indeed wishes to trade off Quintana and other veterans that he's looking to deal.

Seems about right in terms of "fair." Highest Musgrove ever was on any prospect list was BA had him at #83. None of the other majors ranked him. Martes is at 20/41/63 on BA/mlb.com/bp. Tucker was at 61/74/93. So in essence you're talking about a top 50 guy and two top 150 types.

 

[Omeletpants]

Seems about right in terms of "fair." Highest Musgrove ever was on any prospect list was BA had him at #83. None of the other majors ranked him. Martes is at 20/41/63 on BA/mlb.com/bp. Tucker was at 61/74/93. So in essence you're talking about a top 50 guy and two top 150 types.

Too bad the white sox would never trade with the Cubs cause that sounds like Happ, Cease and a no name to me

 

[beckdawg]

Too bad the white sox would never trade with the Cubs cause that sounds like Happ, Cease and a no name to me

Yeah. It's weird to me that they are so heavily loading up on arms though. I mean I get it, arms are what's sexy and expensive but if they indeed asked for Martes and Musgrove, Musgrove finished 2016 in the majors. Martes finished in AA so he probably starts in AAA. Giolito is probably close to MLB ready. Kopech is probably in AA to start next season. Reynaldo Lopez finished in the majors. Carson Fulmer is near ready for the majors. Spencer Adams finished in AA. Dunning is a college pitcher Washington took in the first round so he should be quick to the majors. And they still have Rodon.

I suppose you argue they do the flip side of the cubs and just pick and choose the ones they want but that is a fuck load of young pitching. And other than Tim Anderson and Moncada they don't really have huge hitting prospects. Zack Collins might be a decent C. Basabe might be a average CF. Pretty light on hitting though. It's also interesting to see them and the Braves gutting their team to build via pitching. I'm sure there's really no "right way" to build a team but it is interesting teams are still going so hard on pitching after the cubs have built this team. Usually tends to be a copy cat league. And the more puzzling aspect of that is you would expect teams that do choose to build so pitching heavy to pal up with the ones who go hitter heavy as natural trade partners.

 

[JP Hochbaum]

Hahn could just be picking up a ton of pitching because of its cost controlled value at the trading deadline, which skyrockets. Load up the farm with pitching now and then at the deadline make more trades for position players. Moves to make other moves.

 

[Adipost]

His splitter is unhittable to lefties and he's known for pounding strikes. He comes in and it's strike, strike, strike, NEXT. In 2013 when he'd come in to close, if you went to the fridge to get a drink you'd miss the entire inning.

 

[CSF77]

Interesting:

The new collective bargaining agreement will significantly damage Japanese superstar Shohei Otani‘s earning power if the 22-year-old immigrates to the majors before he turns 25, but that might not prevent him from coming to the big leagues prior to 2019. Hideki Kuriyama, Otani’s manager with the Nippon-Ham Fighters, said Thursday that he expects the right-handed ace/left-handed hitter to head to the majors next offseason (Twitter link via Jim Allen of Kyodo News). Otani will have to take a minor league deal if he signs with a major league team before he turns 25. That means he’d need to accrue six years of service time before becoming a major league free agent and having a real chance to cash in via the open market. As of last weekend, the Fighters were planning on posting Otani a year from now.

 

[anotheridiot]

what is the comparison to what he earns now in his country to the major league minimum of 500k? I mean, personally, the guy will show he has confidence in himself by coming now, because he will be known as a dominant pitcher and rake in for his 30 million. Waiting til after he is 25, just to get more guaranteed money shows less confidence.

 

[CSF77]

what is the comparison to what he earns now in his country to the major league minimum of 500k? I mean, personally, the guy will show he has confidence in himself by coming now, because he will be known as a dominant pitcher and rake in for his 30 million. Waiting til after he is 25, just to get more guaranteed money shows less confidence.

The bonus max is 10 mil. I believe the lowest win teams can get that much. 8.3-5 for highest win teams. After that teams can go into the penalty.

Now with him saying he will goto the majors it is not about the money at all. He could earn more playing in Japan then cashing in at 25.

In view of this he is very competitive and he will only sign with a team set up to compete.

The Cubs are the fav.

 

[TC in Mississippi]

The bonus max is 10 mil. I believe the lowest win teams can get that much. 8.3-5 for lowest win teams. After that teams can go into the penalty.

Now with him saying he will goto the majors it is not about the money at all. He could earn more playing in Japan then cashing in at 25.

In view of this he is very competitive and he will only sign with a team set up to compete.

The Cubs are the fav.

Certainly long term earning potential is possible. He made $2.38 mil in 2016 and will earn $2.7 mil in 2017, about the cost of a replacement level player in MLB. It's a shame that these international rules change just as he was going to get really paid.

 

[CSF77]

Certainly long term earning potential is possible. He made $2.38 mil in 2016 and will earn $2.7 mil in 2017, about the cost of a replacement level player in MLB. It's a shame that these international rules change just as he was going to get really paid.

I personally think it has more to do with the level of competition. MLB has more talent and a guy like him anything he does over there will be viewed as against 2 tier talent

 

[TC in Mississippi]

I personally think it has more to do with the level of competition. MLB has more talent and a guy like him anything he does over there will be viewed as against 2 tier talent

Yeah I'm not sure I buy that. If the rules hadn't changed he was going to get upwards of $200 mil, maybe much higher depending on how many teams were seriously in. On the other hand everything I've heard indicates that he wants to compete in MLB because he wants to play against the best. I was saying it's a shame that this kid was staring down generational wealth and now he won't see that for years.

 

[DanTown]

Otani coming over and getting the service clock started with a six year max with opt outs in to arbitration is probably not a bad decision. Otani would be 23/34 in year one of the deal and then be 29 as a FA. Could be looking at one of the largest FA deals ever by that point if he's at all close to his potential. If not, he still makes drastically make more in the US than he ever would in Japan and the quicker he gets in to the US system of pitching, the better it might be for his arm. You look at the Japanesse guys who come over and a lot of them struggle to adjust at an older age to the US style of pitching in terms of effort, velocity, and frequency.

 

[Raskolnikov]

He should sue to earn a fair wage for his value. International court. Or in the states, whichever favors him. There shouldn't be a 200,000,000 difference in what he earns based even on a collective bargaining agreement. That cost makes it worth some lawyers time somewhere.

 

[DanTown]

He should sue to earn a fair wage for his value. International court. Or in the states, whichever favors him. There shouldn't be a 200,000,000 difference in what he earns based even on a collective bargaining agreement. That cost makes it worth some lawyers time somewhere.

Can't challenge collective bargaining being "unfair". No lawyer would take the case because no law has been broken. It sucks for Otani (much like it sucks for Kris Bryant that he only made 550K last year) but that's the rules that both sides agreed to.

 

[chibears55]

A lot of pages here on a guy who won't be available to play here for a year or three...

Worried about what a guy should or shouldn't make and he might not even come to the states for a couple years..

Sent from my LG-V495 using Tapatalk

 

[CSF77]

A lot of pages here on a guy who won't be available to play here for a year or three...

Worried about what a guy should or shouldn't make and he might not even come to the states for a couple years..

Sent from my LG-V495 using Tapatalk

Manager said he will be posted and he wants it

 

[CSF77]

2018 shaping up pretty good.

Top name can be had on a minor league signing.

Then you got Pineda, Tillman, Arrieta and Darvish as TOR

Next tier is Duffy and Tyson.

Not a bad class.

 

[chibears55]

Manager said he will be posted and he wants it

When
Next off season?


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[beckdawg]

Just fyi, if Otani is posted prior to july 1 2018 the cubs can only pay him $300k as this past july was the start of the 2 year penalty on IFA's.

 

[CSF77]

When
Next off season?


Sent from my LG-V495 using Tapatalk

The new collective bargaining agreement will significantly damage Japanese superstar Shohei Otani’s earning power if the 22-year-old immigrates to the majors before he turns 25, but that might not prevent him from coming to the big leagues prior to 2019. Hideki Kuriyama, Otani’s manager with the Nippon-Ham Fighters, said Thursday that he expects the right-handed ace/left-handed hitter to head to the majors next offseason (Twitter link via Jim Allen of Kyodo News). Otani will have to take a minor league deal if he signs with a major league team before he turns 25. That means he’d need to accrue six years of service time before becoming a major league free agent and having a real chance to cash in via the open market. As of last weekend, the Fighters were planning on posting Otani a year from now.