Offseason rumors/discussion thread

[fatbeard]

2. Age matters after 36. Year 6 of 10 at 30+M never ends up well. Players over ask to pay for the earlier discount they played for.

Which is why it makes sense for Bryant to push for a massive extension within a year or two after he gets healthy and returns to normal production. The Cubs are clearly open to this, having already offered the deal, but Bryant and Boras have refused to talk, which is completely understandable given their current situation. Give it time.

 

[anotheridiot]

This team is going over the threshold just by resigning our own guys. Dropping Happ and Schwarber, both still low dollars is just going to get there faster. Rizzo is eventually going to want to get paid for these discount years. He might build a hospital somewhere.

This team finds a way to put up the numbers they did in the first half for 3/4ths of the year its gonna get 100 wins.

Wouldn't it have been nice to have Heyward opt out and have Eloy ready to replace him?

 

[CSF77]

ya

Which is why it makes sense for Bryant to push for a massive extension within a year or two after he gets healthy and returns to normal production. The Cubs are clearly open to this, having already offered the deal, but Bryant and Boras have refused to talk, which is completely understandable given their current situation. Give it time.

It has happened with Boras before.

This is the way I’m looking at it. They owe 27 mil per on Jon. 20-22M each on Darvish and Heyward.

I believe Jon comes off in 2 years. So I could see it but again doubtful because of the void created in the rotation. It could fix internally but again doubtful. If they were good at producing pitching talent then they would have pitching talent. Weird how that works. And they have had 7 drafts to produce 1 major league quality arm...well Godley but...makes you wonder if their evaluations are over rated and better evaluators swooped in like vultures...this past deadline for example might become a kick in the pants down the road.

 

[CSF77]

This team is going over the threshold just by resigning our own guys. Dropping Happ and Schwarber, both still low dollars is just going to get there faster. Rizzo is eventually going to want to get paid for these discount years. He might build a hospital somewhere.

This team finds a way to put up the numbers they did in the first half for 3/4ths of the year its gonna get 100 wins.

Wouldn't it have been nice to have Heyward opt out and have Eloy ready to replace him?

Crying about the past doesn’t fix the future.

Heyward would not get equal value to the egg he is squatting on. So wishful thinking.

Theo has made some mistakes along the way and when his deal comes up it wouldn’t shock me to see a part. He got a ring and helped refund a remodel. But he has made a few major errors and has shown some major lacking in producing talent outside of trades or first picks.

 

[TL1961]

Normally I would agree but Bryant will be 30 and with Boras you can pretty much expect a Pujos ending here. Locked into 1B (early injury).

Reality is far better players have regressed in their 30 and have not earned fair value.

So if you are looking at it naive sure I agree. But looking at it from a historic and intellectual viewpoint Manny at 26 is a far wiser investment.

Not on when to trade Bryant. Well that is another story. Every year decreases return and the deadline on a failure maybe the answer.

I don’t see them going to bed with Boras.

I can’t understand how you consider it “naïve” to think we should not trade away key players while we are in the window trying to win a championship.

Believing Bryant’s value will decrease is not illogica. thinking we would spend $350 million on a free-agent acquisition and then trade Bryant, is.

 

[CSF77]

I can’t understand how you consider it “naïve” to think we should not trade away key players while we are in the window trying to win a championship.

Believing Bryant’s value will decrease is not illogica. thinking we would spend $350 million on a free-agent acquisition and then trade Bryant, is.

It is wiser to trade him and to get a solid return vs sit on him and get nothing. But it depends on timing and circumstances. If they talk extension then it becomes moot. But if it turns into another Jake Arrieta scenario and they just invested 300M into Manny then it makes more sense to get a major return.

I get how you think WS and I do believe that Joe will get 1 more shot at it.

But speaking realistically.

50% resign Murphy
25% Harper
25% Manny

I’m holding to that. Numbers wise Murphy gave .300 BA 91 games ended up with a 110 wRC+. Full season before 132.

So for the investment you are getting solid returns. Should be 34 so age shouldn’t be a negative concern.

That is why it becomes the most likely scenerio. It keeps payroll flexibility where they can pursue retaining Bryant.

End of the day the O fell apart when Bryant hit the DL. Contreras got worn out from playing that many games for the first time and the back ups were a void. Murphy renergized a dead line up. I think that has to be appreciated for what it is.

Now running
Murphy 2B
Zobrist RF
Baez SS
Rizzo 1B
Bryant 3B
Heyward CF
Contreras C
Schwarber LF

might end up it. Late inning push Almora to CF Heyward to RF and Zo to 2B. Happ to LF. Pretty stats que but add a solid back up catcher. It would be more about getting your guys healthy vs adding to payroll

I think that injury and leveling their swings were the issue vs missing a major cog. Adding Darvish to that rotation is pretty imposing.

 

[chibears55]

It is wiser to trade him and to get a solid return vs sit on him and get nothing. But it depends on timing and circumstances. If they talk extension then it becomes moot. But if it turns into another Jake Arrieta scenario and they just invested 300M into Manny then it makes more sense to get a major return.

I get how you think WS and I do believe that Joe will get 1 more shot at it.

But speaking realistically.

50% resign Murphy
25% Harper
25% Manny

I’m holding to that. Numbers wise Murphy gave .300 BA 91 games ended up with a 110 wRC+. Full season before 132.

So for the investment you are getting solid returns. Should be 34 so age shouldn’t be a negative concern.

That is why it becomes the most likely scenerio. It keeps payroll flexibility where they can pursue retaining Bryant.

End of the day the O fell apart when Bryant hit the DL. Contreras got worn out from playing that many games for the first time and the back ups were a void. Murphy renergized a dead line up. I think that has to be appreciated for what it is.

Now running
Murphy 2B
Zobrist RF
Baez SS
Rizzo 1B
Bryant 3B
Heyward CF
Contreras C
Schwarber LF

might end up it. Late inning push Almora to CF Heyward to RF and Zo to 2B. Happ to LF. Pretty stats que but add a solid back up catcher. It would be more about getting your guys healthy vs adding to payroll

I think that injury and leveling their swings were the issue vs missing a major cog. Adding Darvish to that rotation is pretty imposing.

Doubt very much Theo does nothing but resign Murphy to help ignite an offense that had trouble 2 yrs in a row generating runs 1/3 of the season ...
Im sure you heard his press conference, he was very adamant about changes to address that

Reading over all your suggestions, you basically have Theo doing nothing this offseason but resigning players like Hamels Chavez and Murphy plus adding a backup catcher and a bullpen arm

Im not saying there going to be drastic changes to a team that won 95 games, but im sure Theo and Jed are going to make some changes to try and make sure this team doesn't struggle as often as it has offensively generating runs and keep them winning 90+ games

If you think about it, realistically they were pretty lucky to have won 95 games scoring 1 or 0 runs in 40 games and add the 16 games they only scored 2 runs, that over 1/3 of their games scoring 2 runs or less

So, i would expect at least 1 major impact player added and maybe 1 or 2 more additional players added to the lineup, their definitely not returning the exact same group they finished with.

 

[anotheridiot]

Doubt very much Theo does nothing but resign Murphy to help ignite an offense that had trouble 2 yrs in a row generating runs 1/3 of the season ...
Im sure you heard his press conference, he was very adamant about changes to address that

Reading over all your suggestions, you basically have Theo doing nothing this offseason but resigning players like Hamels Chavez and Murphy plus adding a backup catcher and a bullpen arm

Im not saying there going to be drastic changes to a team that won 95 games, but im sure Theo and Jed are going to make some changes to try and make sure this team doesn't struggle as often as it has offensively generating runs and keep them winning 90+ games

If you think about it, realistically they were pretty lucky to have won 95 games scoring 1 or 0 runs in 40 games and add the 16 games they only scored 2 runs, that over 1/3 of their games scoring 2 runs or less

So, i would expect at least 1 major impact player added and maybe 1 or 2 more additional players added to the lineup, their definitely not returning the exact same group they finished with.

I listened to the press conference, pretty sure Murphy was part of that problem. His newlywed time frame was a big spark, but he fizzled out and was part of the problem.

Its getting 6 core players from hitting in the shift. Does not need to mean personnel. Hitting coach, batting practice should be going with the pitch and spraying the ball all over the field, not trying to hit the ball on the street. You might say, well, the power numbers are going to go down. Guess what, they did already. How many time did we hear, damn, that groundout by Heyward was hit at 112 mph, he really was on time, that was a positive at bat. Honestly, three line drive outs to left field are a bigger positive. Like I say, the hitting coach is more of a head doctor than a swing doctor. I bet Tony Gwynn would have hitters running laps after the game for hitting into the shift. Sandberg probably would too. The head doctor needs to find a way to make it seem like it was the hitters idea. Believe me, 4 guys hitting .300 will score more than one run. 40 games in the second half 0 or 1 run, Murphy was there too.

 

[CSF77]

Doubt very much Theo does nothing but resign Murphy to help ignite an offense that had trouble 2 yrs in a row generating runs 1/3 of the season ...
Im sure you heard his press conference, he was very adamant about changes to address that

Reading over all your suggestions, you basically have Theo doing nothing this offseason but resigning players like Hamels Chavez and Murphy plus adding a backup catcher and a bullpen arm

Im not saying there going to be drastic changes to a team that won 95 games, but im sure Theo and Jed are going to make some changes to try and make sure this team doesn't struggle as often as it has offensively generating runs and keep them winning 90+ games

If you think about it, realistically they were pretty lucky to have won 95 games scoring 1 or 0 runs in 40 games and add the 16 games they only scored 2 runs, that over 1/3 of their games scoring 2 runs or less

So, i would expect at least 1 major impact player added and maybe 1 or 2 more additional players added to the lineup, their definitely not returning the exact same group they finished with.

Maybe that is what you want but not what they need.

Bryant healthy Is 6 WAR vs the 2 WAR we saw.
Contreras lost value as he wore down and this was what Theo was alluding towards.

You have to remember this team won 94 games with what they had. You resign Murphy and Hamels with a full season of Contreras and Bryant that number pushes to 100 with out going overboard.

And I don’t see this huge impact of Manny>Murphy. Murphy is a big impact in the play offs...think most of can remember those moments...Manny not so much. What has he done? Not over yet but he has not made them better than Boston...

 

[CSF77]

Now if you argue Schwarber upgrade... ok I believe is single track minded. This year was all about losing the fat and not looking like a clown in LF. I think that he pretty much made strides there. Next goal should be vs lefties and focus on that weakness.

I kinda see him as a catcher that has to reinvent himself and is working on closing the holes. He brings a lot still so another year doesn’t hurt

 

[chibears55]

Not sure if this is someone wish or an actual mlb rumor but i keep hearing the name Whit Merrifield as a potential trade target for the Cubs...

He a RH hitting 2Bmen from the Royals that would be a legit leadoff hitter

29 YO and under team control til 2023

Add him and Harper to the lineup and their set [emoji6]

 

[CSF77]

Not sure if this is someone wish or an actual mlb rumor but i keep hearing the name Whit Merrifield as a potential trade target for the Cubs...

He a RH hitting 2Bmen from the Royals that would be a legit leadoff hitter

29 YO and under team control til 2023

Add him and Harper to the lineup and their set [emoji6]

They have done business in the past

 

[CSF77]

Outside of the box. Adds speed. Locks Baez into SS. Potentially using Russell in it (IMO). Smart trade.

Looking deeper into it. He is 1 year pre Arb still so in theory a great idea but he is cheap control for KC. I really don’t see the why part from their side.

 

[beckdawg]

Not sure if this is someone wish or an actual mlb rumor but i keep hearing the name Whit Merrifield as a potential trade target for the Cubs...

He a RH hitting 2Bmen from the Royals that would be a legit leadoff hitter

29 YO and under team control til 2023

Add him and Harper to the lineup and their set [emoji6]

KC has already said in july they don't plan to trade him

 

[beckdawg]

Buster Olney had this to say

There is a strong undertow of reaction from within the MLB community about Machado's effort in this postseason, and his comments about effort. He'll be paid plenty in the end, but his play has created a lot of questions. The volume of high-end bidders might be diminished.

There's two ways to take that. One is the cubs are one of those teams who are out. The other is he may be cheaper than we thought which would be interesting. I've made no doubts about my beliefs he is the best hitter the cubs could add though I was never really chiming in on the personality aspects. We just don't know how much that is truly an issue. If the cubs don't choose to go after him because of that then I don't really have an issue with it because I have to assume they've done their homework.

 

[chibears55]

KC has already said in july they don't plan to trade him

The reason as to why they might do it from what I heard was that with him turning 30 and the Royals basically suck now and are probably better off going full rebuild over the next 3 yrs , they may consider moving him for younger returns..

Just naming names but a player like Addy, Happ, Schwarber, or Almora all much younger with control years could be part of a deal

 

[beckdawg]

The reason as to why they might do it from what I heard was that with him turning 30 and the Royals basically suck now and are probably better off going full rebuild over the next 3 yrs , they may consider moving him for younger returns..

Just naming names but a player like Addy, Happ, Schwarber, or Almora all much younger with control years could be part of a deal

Not really. Whit is controlled through 2022. Almora is controlled through 2022. Happ is 2023. Schwarber is 2021. Addy is 2021. So sure they are younger but with the exception of Happ, they aren't more controllable than he is and obviously he put up better season than they did. Plus, if you're trading him why would you trade him for MLB players? You'd want prospects instead I would think given KC isn't anywhere near competing right now

 

[chibears55]

Not really. Whit is controlled through 2022. Almora is controlled through 2022. Happ is 2023. Schwarber is 2021. Addy is 2021. So sure they are younger but with the exception of Happ, they aren't more controllable than he is and obviously he put up better season than they did. Plus, if you're trading him why would you trade him for MLB players? You'd want prospects instead I would think given KC isn't anywhere near competing right now

I didn't say more control years, i said with control years..

Their younger so they could offer an extension to keep them around longer

I said part of a trade, obviously it wouldn't be a swap

Let say they want Schwarber, now they have a talented 26 Yo who can play LF or DH under control for the next 3 yrs with an opportunity to extend before he turns 30

 

[beckdawg]

I didn't say more control years, i said with control years..

Their younger so they could offer an extension to keep them around longer

I said part of a trade, obviously it wouldn't be a swap

Just don't see it as likely. 1) they would have to want to trade him which they've given no indication they want to do 2) they would have to want MLB talent in return which I can't see why they would 3) they would have to take a cubs offer that is likely less than other contenders offers.

Like I get the logic behind trying to get him to the cubs but I don't think it makes much sense logistically. I think a team like the padres makes far more sense. They need to consolidate some of their young talent because they lack 40 man roster space and are trying to get good quick as they advance their young prospects to the majors. His age likely wouldn't bother them either.

 

[chibears55]

Just don't see it as likely. 1) they would have to want to trade him which they've given no indication they want to do 2) they would have to want MLB talent in return which I can't see why they would 3) they would have to take a cubs offer that is likely less than other contenders offers.

Like I get the logic behind trying to get him to the cubs but I don't think it makes much sense logistically. I think a team like the padres makes far more sense. They need to consolidate some of their young talent because they lack 40 man roster space and are trying to get good quick as they advance their young prospects to the majors. His age likely wouldn't bother them either.

Obviously they would have to want to trade him, like i originally mentioned im not sure if it was just someone wish and putting it out there or if it had actual legs to it....

I just gave an example as to why they could/would consider it and who they might consider in return...

Obviously it just my opinion