Offseason rumors/discussion thread

[beckdawg]

Obviously they would have to want to trade him, like i originally mentioned im not sure if it was just someone wish and putting it out there or if it had actual legs to it....

I just gave an example as to why they could/would consider it and who they might consider in return...

Obviously it just my opinion

Yeah I mean I get where you're coming from with the idea. I think it would make sense from the cubs stand point quite a bit. But I struggle to see why KC would want this deal with the cubs as I said.

I'm honestly curious to see how the cubs handle Trent Giambrone. He's hitting .435/.480/.739 in the AFL after hitting .251/.333/.440 in AA. MLB.com's not working at the moment for their scouting grades so I can't look up his speed. I know he's not a 70 runner for example and probably not a 60 but he did steal 26 in 456 PAs. As a comparison, Baez stole 8 in 240 PAs also at AA. Giambrone isn't making the opening day roster but he could potentially provide a bote like impact around midseason.

 

[chibears55]

Yeah I mean I get where you're coming from with the idea. I think it would make sense from the cubs stand point quite a bit. But I struggle to see why KC would want this deal with the cubs as I said.

I'm honestly curious to see how the cubs handle Trent Giambrone. He's hitting .435/.480/.739 in the AFL after hitting .251/.333/.440 in AA. MLB.com's not working at the moment for their scouting grades so I can't look up his speed. I know he's not a 70 runner for example and probably not a 60 but he did steal 26 in 456 PAs. As a comparison, Baez stole 8 in 240 PAs also at AA. Giambrone isn't making the opening day roster but he could potentially provide a bote like impact around midseason.

Yea ive been hearing good things about him and Hoerner .373/.400/.490 in the AFL

Hoerner could be a 2020 addition if he able to rise up through the system next year

 

[chibears55]

Throwing this out there....

Wondering with Edwards reaching Super 2 and look to be earning a milion plus now , if the Cubs would consider moving him in a trade and turn to a cheaper option from the minors to save some salary space

 

[beckdawg]

Yea ive been hearing good things about him and Hoerner .373/.400/.490 in the AFL

Hoerner could be a 2020 addition if he able to rise up through the system next year

Really wouldn't shock me if he was up by september next year tbqh. I don't think he's going to be up any sooner than that but he seems like the type of fast running guy they usually add around that time anyways. And the guy can really make contact. With him what I'm hoping to see is for them to give him some time in CF next year. SS/2B for him is sort of a given since he's played there before but if he gets CF in his tool kit he can be a very useful zobrist early in his career like player.

 

[Omeletpants]

Machado runs like an old lady with a piano on his back

 

[Parade_Rain]

Machado runs like an old lady with a piano on his back

An old lady who likes to step on the First Baseman's heel, too.

 

[kapooncha]

Buster Olney had this to say



There's two ways to take that. One is the cubs are one of those teams who are out. The other is he may be cheaper than we thought which would be interesting. I've made no doubts about my beliefs he is the best hitter the cubs could add though I was never really chiming in on the personality aspects. We just don't know how much that is truly an issue. If the cubs don't choose to go after him because of that then I don't really have an issue with it because I have to assume they've done their homework.

You've been excusing his personality the entire postseason.

 

[CSF77]

I would expect 600 PA in the minors as a gauge on Nico. It also depends on how he produces at each stop. AA would be a solid start

 

[CSF77]

R

Throwing this out there....

Wondering with Edwards reaching Super 2 and look to be earning a milion plus now , if the Cubs would consider moving him in a trade and turn to a cheaper option from the minors to save some salary space

I would. He is talented but erratic out there. I would much rather have boring in the pen vs heart attack.

 

[beckdawg]

I would expect 600 PA in the minors as a gauge on Nico. It also depends on how he produces at each stop. AA would be a solid start

AFL is roughly similar to AA competition albeit in a very hitter friendly environment as opposed to the southern league. Given how he's performing in the AFL I wouldn't expect him to stay too long in AA unless they were like training him some in CF before moving him up to AAA. Something like that...

Not saying he's Kris Bryant but to give you an idea of the last cubs player who was drafted and then went to the AFL... Bryant hit .364/.457/.727 that year in the AFL followed by .355/.458/.702 in the 297 PAs they left him in Tenn. So, Hoerner hitting .373/.400/.490 is a pretty strong showing. Obviously Bryant had substantially more power but the batting average should allow him to compete in AA IMO.

 

[beckdawg]

I would much rather have boring in the pen vs heart attack.

I don't think such a thing exists. I suppose you could argue guys with lower walk rates are less concerning but to me it's more about roles. I've said this awhile but I think people view bullpens the wrong way. There's stoppers and there's guys you want starting an inning. Stoppers are your higher k rate guys who typically struggle some with command where as Cishek IMO is a good example of a guy you want starting a clean inning. A good pen IMO is having a mix of both. The biggest issue the cubs have had of late was not enough stopper types.

 

[CSF77]

AFL is roughly similar to AA competition albeit in a very hitter friendly environment as opposed to the southern league. Given how he's performing in the AFL I wouldn't expect him to stay too long in AA unless they were like training him some in CF before moving him up to AAA. Something like that...

Not saying he's Kris Bryant but to give you an idea of the last cubs player who was drafted and then went to the AFL... Bryant hit .364/.457/.727 that year in the AFL followed by .355/.458/.702 in the 297 PAs they left him in Tenn. So, Hoerner hitting .373/.400/.490 is a pretty strong showing. Obviously Bryant had substantially more power but the batting average should allow him to compete in AA IMO.

More about the PA’s. Theo tends to want a certain number in general. More of a gauge if anything. Happ was injury driven and he had a solid rookie response. Last year shows him immaturity as a hitter and it makes you wonder if he could have used more time in development.

Nico has a better hit tool than Happ. I kinda expect AA myself. AFL took the place of his A+ stop that he missed from injury.

 

[CSF77]

I don't think such a thing exists. I suppose you could argue guys with lower walk rates are less concerning but to me it's more about roles. I've said this awhile but I think people view bullpens the wrong way. There's stoppers and there's guys you want starting an inning. Stoppers are your higher k rate guys who typically struggle some with command where as Cishek IMO is a good example of a guy you want starting a clean inning. A good pen IMO is having a mix of both. The biggest issue the cubs have had of late was not enough stopper types.

Strop pretty much is

 

[beckdawg]

Strop pretty much is

2 years ago Maddon wasn't even confident enough in Strop to use him in the playoffs. He leaned almost entirely on Chapman/Monty in 2016. That's basically the point I'm making. Year to year you can't predict this stuff.

 

[chibears55]

I don't think such a thing exists. I suppose you could argue guys with lower walk rates are less concerning but to me it's more about roles. I've said this awhile but I think people view bullpens the wrong way. There's stoppers and there's guys you want starting an inning. Stoppers are your higher k rate guys who typically struggle some with command where as Cishek IMO is a good example of a guy you want starting a clean inning. A good pen IMO is having a mix of both. The biggest issue the cubs have had of late was not enough stopper types.

Why i said i think theyll go after another late inning guy (lefty) to mix in with Strop and Morrow..

Wilson was supposed to be that guy , i doubt he returns

They also have to decide on Monty Chatwood and Chavez

I think we'll also see guys like Hancock Bass DeLaRosa Mills Mazzoni Butler
given the opportunity to make the team in ST

 

[CSF77]

Why i said i think theyll go after another late inning guy (lefty) to mix in with Strop and Morrow..

Wilson was supposed to be that guy , i doubt he returns

They also have to decide on Monty Chatwood and Chavez

I think we'll also see guys like Hancock Bass DeLaRosa Mills Mazzoni Butler
given the opportunity to make the team in ST

No. Butler was traded for Chavez anyways. Rest are injury fill.

Smyly is a 5M tax hit. He will play.
Duensing is a 3.5M tax hit. That one could go either way. I don't believe the talent justifies the risk of a 25 man spot.
Kintzler has a 5M player option that he can force on the Cubs. With his history is is a better bet than not pulling it. 2.6 compiled fWAR bad business move.

So even though tax went up 9M 13.5M is tied up into 3 guys. if they cut Brandon and Brian that is a 8.5M hit. It negates the tax increase.

So current state:

Chatwood: 12.5M
Morrow: 10.5M
Cishek: 6.5M
Strop: 6.25M (team opt)
Drew Smyly 5M
Kintzler 5M (player opt)
Duensing: 3.5M
Edwards 2.25M (projected arb on Cots)
Montgomery 2M (projected arb on Cots)

9 guys and Chavez wants to come back. So they have to eat Duesing's deal just to get Strop back. To add Chavez they have to eat 5 mil on top of his contract.

This is why I kinda feel like Theo has made some poor judgments in general. Chavez would most likely cost 10M when you look at the total hit. pulling Strop's contract is a 9.75M team option in reality.

Every move has a added effect.

 

[chibears55]

No. Butler was traded for Chavez anyways. Rest are injury fill.

Smyly is a 5M tax hit. He will play.
Duensing is a 3.5M tax hit. That one could go either way. I don't believe the talent justifies the risk of a 25 man spot.
Kintzler has a 5M player option that he can force on the Cubs. With his history is is a better bet than not pulling it. 2.6 compiled fWAR bad business move.

So even though tax went up 9M 13.5M is tied up into 3 guys. if they cut Brandon and Brian that is a 8.5M hit. It negates the tax increase.

So current state:

Chatwood: 12.5M
Morrow: 10.5M
Cishek: 6.5M
Strop: 6.25M (team opt)
Drew Smyly 5M
Kintzler 5M (player opt)
Duensing: 3.5M
Edwards 2.25M (projected arb on Cots)
Montgomery 2M (projected arb on Cots)

9 guys and Chavez wants to come back. So they have to eat Duesing's deal just to get Strop back. To add Chavez they have to eat 5 mil on top of his contract.

This is why I kinda feel like Theo has made some poor judgments in general. Chavez would most likely cost 10M when you look at the total hit. pulling Strop's contract is a 9.75M team option in reality.

Every move has a added effect.

Guys I mentioned had a pretty good stint though it were minimal and they come with a low cost which is important if their considering on bringing in Machado or Harper.

Chatwood Duensing Smyley Kintzler all due to earn multi millions and aren't exactly lights out, their expendable...

Not saying all will make it, just saying i can see them in the mix and used to replace guys like the ones above as cheaper options and probably better

 

[CSF77]

Guys I mentioned had a pretty good stint though it were minimal and they come with a low cost which is important if their considering on bringing in Machado or Harper.

Chatwood Duensing Smyley Kintzler all due to earn multi millions and aren't exactly lights out, their expendable...

Not saying all will make it, just saying i can see them in the mix and used to replace guys like the ones above as cheaper options and probably better

Saying a player who can’t hold a 25 man spot holds more value than a proven bet is funny.

Most of the guys you posted couldn’t hold roster spots were due to their walk rates. Chatwood was assed our due to his walk rate.

They are stuff pitchers that lack command. Ok because they don’t attack the cost.

But if you are considering trading up like that well great strategy for increasing the lottery pool.

 

[Omeletpants]

Guys I mentioned had a pretty good stint though it were minimal and they come with a low cost which is important if their considering on bringing in Machado or Harper.

Chatwood Duensing Smyley Kintzler all due to earn multi millions and aren't exactly lights out, their expendable...

Not saying all will make it, just saying i can see them in the mix and used to replace guys like the ones above as cheaper options and probably better

How do you know Smyley isnt lights out? You been been practicing with him?

 

[chibears55]

How do you know Smyley isnt lights out? You been been practicing with him?

Considering he hasn't pitched in 2 years , off of TJ surgery, and didn't fair very well the last year he did pitch in 2016...
I have my doubts he gonna come in and dominate, id actually be surprise if whoever he ends up with dont start him out in the minors first just to see where he at now.