Offseason rumors/discussion thread

[CSF77]

I agree. At this point Cubs just need to go big and see if they can win another WS in the window. Just crossing fingers and praying we can win with what we've got is pathetic and futile.

Far more likely they target a 1 year deal with Joe’s last year. 2020 has a feel of turn over about it and a new manager.

 

[fatbeard]

One thing I will say is, I don’t expect Theo to do what many people expect.

Not in a “do it for shock value” way. Just that he has a plan and the “obvious move” isn’t necessarily a part of it.

When Price was a “slam dunk”, he went after Heyward as he had planned years before.

Stay under the tax threshold? Why? They can afford it.

I have long felt Harper would not be a Cub, but more recently felt he could be. Machado could be a great fit position-wise with Russell’s situation.

Just when you think Theo will zig, he'll zag.

I don’t think Hamels will be his big move. I think most would agree.

Worth remembering that one of the main reasons Epstein left Boston was he'd gotten burned out by the constant pressure to compete blow-by-blow with the Yankees' big FA acquisitions every offseason. It was more about winning headlines than baseball games, and resulted in a number of bad deals. And when he went to Ricketts to talk about the Cubs job, he made it clear that's not how he wanted to run an organization, and he wanted an owner who was on board with doing it his way.

 

[anotheridiot]

The biggest deal in history is 13 years for 325M. Both of those number will be broken by whomever signs Harper. The future is already handcuffed. The Cubs aren't getting a better starter than they already have on staff or in the system. The downside of Harper is he's as likely to play <120 games as he is >140 games. His numbers the past 4 seasons with Runners On, RISP, and RISP w/ 2 Outs are outstanding. The Cubs are in Go Big or Go Home stage.

Or you can be happy to stand pat and hope people develop.

But what you are saying is what everyone was saying 5 years ago, let Theo build the system, build the core and EVERYBODY bought in to that. As soon as the big name is available, they want him.

Even without Harper, that lineup should hit the luxury tax eventually. That is what Theo built, what so many waited for, and now people want that dismantled.

I really dont care about Russell, he took Baez off of Short to begin with. Zobrist, Happ, Bote, Stella all could rotate and share second base, leave KB alone at third base. Bote will cover Baez at Short for breathers, Nico is around if its a long term thing.

The only thing I disagree with is your last sentence, its letting them continue to develop. Most of these guys are just learning and just past the sophomore slump of every day players.

I gotta admit, I expected Milwaukee to be another year in development, St Louis to be a thorn, and Cincy to eventually get there with some good pitching first. Seemed there was a bigger window than the cubs got for the division, but having hitters buy into avoiding shifts since they lost power anyway is going to make sure they dont have 40/80 second half games score less than one run.

Honestly, once the core was in place, I really thought Theo would get bored because he is not the kind to win on big free agent deals. Even lesters first year here was a problem, along with Heywards first two and I guess we see Yu and chatwood.

If they want to take in a pitching project, how about our good buddy Travis Wood?

Welcome to the forum.

 

[Castor76]

I'm not completely opposed to the Cubs standing pat with the bats they have. I just don't feel the team has a sense of urgency to them like they had even in 2017. It was probably more due to injuries and the shift in the locker room as more guys leave than anything else. I'll admit I like Harper as a player and am only concerned with his history of DL trips. Not that I'm a guy in any position to do so, but my initial offer to him would be 14 yr at 400M with the obligatory NTC and opt outs after years 3 and 4. 70M of that would be in incentives for games played. He'd get a 2.5M bonus when he reached games 130 and 140 each season. So in guarantees it's still the longest and richest deal in MLB history.

 

[CSF77]

I'm not completely opposed to the Cubs standing pat with the bats they have. I just don't feel the team has a sense of urgency to them like they had even in 2017. It was probably more due to injuries and the shift in the locker room as more guys leave than anything else. I'll admit I like Harper as a player and am only concerned with his history of DL trips. Not that I'm a guy in any position to do so, but my initial offer to him would be 14 yr at 400M with the obligatory NTC and opt outs after years 3 and 4. 70M of that would be in incentives for games played. He'd get a 2.5M bonus when he reached games 130 and 140 each season. So in guarantees it's still the longest and richest deal in MLB history.

Ok. I’m not against Harper. But they would go over 246M and that matters.

Let’s say they back load: right now they are at 222M. Theyvwould need a 10M gap for inseason. So 230 let’s say. That means the most that they could offer Harper is 16M. Now if you want to stop chuckling we could progress on with WTF would he do this? BFF owns payday?

So honestly if they can find a trade partner that will take on Chatwood for a garbage A ball player and absorb all of it honestly the notion is absurd.

Talking about it is not the same as making it so.

 

[Omeletpants]

Sign Harper and 3 years from now we will lament the fact that his contract has hamstrung the Cubs for a generation as he posts another .260 year and his hideous beard is scaring kids in the bleachers.

 

[TL1961]

All in one post we read that they have a short window remaining, and we should commit to a 15 year contract for half a billion.

Because who doesn't want to be on the hook for $400 million after the window closes?

Maybe we can get Jon Gruden while we're at it.

 

[chibears55]

https://twitter.com/NBCSCubs/status/1058496382032666625?s=19


Bye Gore

 

[chibears55]

All in one post we read that they have a short window remaining, and we should commit to a 15 year contract for half a billion.

Because who doesn't want to be on the hook for $400 million after the window closes?

Maybe we can get Jon Gruden while we're at it.

Is Mike Murphy on here..

Heard him on 1000 today

He said their window is closing

Couldn't figure out why the let Smyley go cause they dont have a 5th starter

Thinks Darvish wont return til June

 

[Castor76]

All in one post we read that they have a short window remaining, and we should commit to a 15 year contract for half a billion.

Because who doesn't want to be on the hook for $400 million after the window closes?

Maybe we can get Jon Gruden while we're at it.

Because there's no such thing as a large window in baseball anymore. Even looking at the Red Sox who have 4 titles in the past 15 years, they had almost completely different rosters with each team that won it. They had 3 managers over those 4 teams. You're not going to sign an impact player without it being a big and long deal.

Will the Cubs be looking to trade guys for a proverbial bag of baseballs for Chatwood? They already are. It might be 10 years and 300 M after the window closes. Where are they going to be in 5 years anyway? Unless Rizzo is going to give another sweetheart deal, there's little chance he's affordable after his current deal. As bad as Harper pre-ASB was last year, his OBP would have been 3rd on the Cubs an his OPS would have been 4th. And that's just horrible first half numbers. His 54 RBI would have tied for 6th on the team.

There's risk, like in every contract. And I know most will find this insane and asinine to the point of being asi-infinty, but I'd front load the contract, like bigger than most other teams payroll front load. The idea being pay the penalty once and then let the contract become something manageable.

 

[kapooncha]

All in one post we read that they have a short window remaining, and we should commit to a 15 year contract for half a billion.

Because who doesn't want to be on the hook for $400 million after the window closes?

Maybe we can get Jon Gruden while we're at it.

Do you want to win another World Series or not?

 

[Omeletpants]

Do you want to win another World Series or not?

Harper is not the key to a Cubs WS

 

[kapooncha]

Harper is not the key to a Cubs WS

Who is? Caratini?

 

[beckdawg]

I think the Harper market is going to be considerably softer than the media does. The Yanks are already reportedly out which makes sense given the OF they already have. The dodgers have Puig, Bellinger and Peterson so they don't really need him. Washington if they were to have a chance seemingly would have already re-signed him. MLB trade rumors listed the Giants Cards Philly and Cubs as other potential teams. Cards likely have to move Fowler already with Martinez, Bader, Ozuna and O'Neil. While sure Harper would be an upgrade worth moving pieces around it's not like OF is their biggest need. So, that strikes me as unlikely. The Giants? Really? They won 73 games after trying to go all in to win in 2018 and having it blow up in their face. Even if he were to have a 10 win season they aren't a playoff team and they just gave away a lot of their farm to get Longoria/McCutchen in 2018.

Philly makes a lot of sense to me. He's the type of player who would push them over the hump into likely playoff contention while also hitting one of their rivals. But to me they seem like the only team that's likely to go balls deep money wise. I could potentially see a team like the Dodgers considering it if the money were right but it seems illogical to me for them to offer him $32 mil/season when they have the OF they already have. He's only like a 1.5 win upgrade in LF and a 1 win upgrade in RF if he's a 4 win player he's largely been for his career.

If you think about it and assume the situation is as I've presented it, how's that really different than the Davrish situation last year? When Boston, NYY and LAD aren't part of the equation prices don't go that high.

 

[CSF77]

https://www.mlb.com/phillies/news/phillies-should-pursue-harper-and-machado/c-300121236

 

[anotheridiot]

Do you want to win another World Series or not?

They did not go and sign Mike Trout or Stanton to win the first one, The big deal they made did not even make a difference on the field. Now it will take Harper to win another one?

 

[anotheridiot]

I think the Harper market is going to be considerably softer than the media does. The Yanks are already reportedly out which makes sense given the OF they already have. The dodgers have Puig, Bellinger and Peterson so they don't really need him. Washington if they were to have a chance seemingly would have already re-signed him. MLB trade rumors listed the Giants Cards Philly and Cubs as other potential teams. Cards likely have to move Fowler already with Martinez, Bader, Ozuna and O'Neil. While sure Harper would be an upgrade worth moving pieces around it's not like OF is their biggest need. So, that strikes me as unlikely. The Giants? Really? They won 73 games after trying to go all in to win in 2018 and having it blow up in their face. Even if he were to have a 10 win season they aren't a playoff team and they just gave away a lot of their farm to get Longoria/McCutchen in 2018.

Philly makes a lot of sense to me. He's the type of player who would push them over the hump into likely playoff contention while also hitting one of their rivals. But to me they seem like the only team that's likely to go balls deep money wise. I could potentially see a team like the Dodgers considering it if the money were right but it seems illogical to me for them to offer him $32 mil/season when they have the OF they already have. He's only like a 1.5 win upgrade in LF and a 1 win upgrade in RF if he's a 4 win player he's largely been for his career.

If you think about it and assume the situation is as I've presented it, how's that really different than the Davrish situation last year? When Boston, NYY and LAD aren't part of the equation prices don't go that high.

Philly in baseball terms makes sense, I just do not see Harper wanting to go back to Washington to be booed 9 or 10 times a year. He would be better off staying in Washington if he does not leave the division.

 

[chibears55]

I think the Harper market is going to be considerably softer than the media does. The Yanks are already reportedly out which makes sense given the OF they already have. The dodgers have Puig, Bellinger and Peterson so they don't really need him. Washington if they were to have a chance seemingly would have already re-signed him. MLB trade rumors listed the Giants Cards Philly and Cubs as other potential teams. Cards likely have to move Fowler already with Martinez, Bader, Ozuna and O'Neil. While sure Harper would be an upgrade worth moving pieces around it's not like OF is their biggest need. So, that strikes me as unlikely. The Giants? Really? They won 73 games after trying to go all in to win in 2018 and having it blow up in their face. Even if he were to have a 10 win season they aren't a playoff team and they just gave away a lot of their farm to get Longoria/McCutchen in 2018.

Philly makes a lot of sense to me. He's the type of player who would push them over the hump into likely playoff contention while also hitting one of their rivals. But to me they seem like the only team that's likely to go balls deep money wise. I could potentially see a team like the Dodgers considering it if the money were right but it seems illogical to me for them to offer him $32 mil/season when they have the OF they already have. He's only like a 1.5 win upgrade in LF and a 1 win upgrade in RF if he's a 4 win player he's largely been for his career.

If you think about it and assume the situation is as I've presented it, how's that really different than the Davrish situation last year? When Boston, NYY and LAD aren't part of the equation prices don't go that high.

I think if they want Harper or Machado they will have to trade Chatwood and or Heyward to stay under 246 and have inseason money available

We see those guys traded then that the signal their going after/getting one of the 2

 

[beckdawg]

I think if they want Harper or Machado they will have to trade Chatwood and or Heyward to stay under 246 and have inseason money available

We see those guys traded then that the signal their going after/getting one of the 2

Ask yourself this... if you're Theo and you literally said the offense broke during your year end presser, are you really just going to say **** it let's re-up Hamels at $20 mil a season to be the 5th starter without a plan? All this talk about them not being able to spend much to me just seems like terrible logic. I get why people have connected the dots but if money truly was that tight why would you pick up Hamels to be your 5th starter? I mean you could roll out Monty, sign a LH reliever to replace him in the bullpen and you're fine.

While I certainly believe they wont go above $246 mil given the trade of Smyly, I just can't realistically believe they haven't planned for this outcome. To me a more rational explanation if they don't sign Machado/harper is they just don't think they are worth the money. I have to believe when they picked up Hamels option they know the top end money they could offer either and presumably anything above that they don't see as a good value. To assume that they would pick up Hamels and then suddenly realize "oh **** we don't have enough for Harper/Machado" just doesn't seem realistic. So, that tells you one of two things, either they got the money figured out some other way or they never intended to be involved above a certain level and if the prices meet that level a la darvish last year then they will listen but other wise they have other plans.

 

[chibears55]

Ask yourself this... if you're Theo and you literally said the offense broke during your year end presser, are you really just going to say **** it let's re-up Hamels at $20 mil a season to be the 5th starter without a plan? All this talk about them not being able to spend much to me just seems like terrible logic. I get why people have connected the dots but if money truly was that tight why would you pick up Hamels to be your 5th starter? I mean you could roll out Monty, sign a LH reliever to replace him in the bullpen and you're fine.

While I certainly believe they wont go above $246 mil given the trade of Smyly, I just can't realistically believe they haven't planned for this outcome. To me a more rational explanation if they don't sign Machado/harper is they just don't think they are worth the money. I have to believe went they picked up Hamels option they know the top end money they could offer either and presumably anything above that they don't see as a good value. To assume that they would pick up Hamels and then suddenly realize "oh **** we don't have enough for Harper/Machado" just doesn't seem realistic. So, that tells you one of two things, either they got the money figured out some other way or they never intended to be involved above a certain level and if the prices meet that level a la darvish last year then they will listen but other wise they have other plans.

Just so you know, i totally agree with you

I definitely dont think he standing pat with this offense and will be making
changes..
Why ive said i could see 2 or 3 new faces to the lineup

Bringing back Hamels gave them 5 guys who can be stoppers and when their on, be guys who can take the ball in a game 1 or 2 in the postseason

I believe he going for it all in 2019

Im just gonna sit back and see exactly what he does with this team between now and winter meeting in December