Offseason rumors/discussion thread

[CSF77]

Why do you hate Russell so much?

Better question is why don’t you hate him enough?

 

[CSF77]

Officially, only 102 games for Javy at 2B. If it was just when he moved to SS, it would have been different, but so many starts at third I dont know what people were expecting. I remember 2016 when Joe kept the infield the same and got the whole crew to the all star game. You get Javy 130-140 at one position he will win the gold glove.

At NL SS he has a shot at it. AL he is not top 5. DJ won it before and honestly GG is popularity

 

[beckdawg]

Interesting... cubs apparently sent some of their draftees to the dominacan republic. Davis and Richan were both on twitter thanking the cubs.

 

[chibears55]

I'm telling you guys I am pretty sure that given theo's comments he's going to play the "it's out job to help rehabilitate him" card. Theo isn't someone who plays with subterfuge. He's a straight shooter and he talked about helping both Russell's wife and Russell himself. Just saying people need to be prepared for that because whether it's right or wrong I am pretty sure it's coming.

And that's setting aside whether or not it's the right baseball move. Because if we look at it as a pure baseball move it's a terrible move to get rid of him. You're not going to find a team who'll give you anything of value for him right now. You're not going to know whether you've signed Harper/Machado before the non-tender date. So, just non-tendering him would be terrible because you create more team needs on a team already tight with money and you're not going to replace the value Russell provides for the cost he'll make in arbitration.

I think there's maybe a slim chance something happens in the winter meetings but I also think it's unlikely because if you're wanting to acquire him you're thinking of him as your SS of the future. But the problem there is you have no SS until May so you have to then also have someone else behind him for a month. That's why I've always said it makes far more sense that if you're going to move him you do it in july. He'll have more value and the cubs themselves will know more about their situation. I mean given the way Javy plays what if he goes down a la Bryant? Waiting until July lets you assess the situation you're in and move him for things you need then that you may not realize you need in december or conversely should Javy go down maybe what you need is a middle infielder who can play defense which is what he is. In other words, if you're selling lowish, at least do it when you know what you're going to need for a playoff run in july.

Im actually starting to think they will hold onto him based only because of the money situation if they do attempt to sign Harper....
I can see going with Zobrist and Bote or whomever at 2B til Russell returns..

But yes if Harper going to be a reality then signing or trading for other players making 7 digits will be limited to stay under the 246 amount...

 

[CSF77]

Im actually starting to think they will hold onto him based only because of the money situation if they do attempt to sign Harper....
I can see going with Zobrist and Bote or whomever at 2B til Russell returns..

But yes if Harper going to be a reality then signing or trading for other players making 7 digits will be limited to stay under the 246 amount...

If they retain him they are looking around 4-5M against cap. I really don’t know if it is wise he get into a Arb battle with Boras over this honestly. He accepted the punishment. Done.

Imo this feels like, “well we can get a feel about the reactions by the base by leaking a story.” If it affects bottom line cut. If a hot topic but not boiling. Use against Boras in Arb and underse. If meh topic well out side of WTF is wrong with people now, they have to decide if he is their SS or not going forward.

The whole PR crap on him and his wife is just that. A bunch of BS. They are divorced. Let them move on and stop getting involved to make your selves look good...

 

[chibears55]

Why do you hate Russell so much?

I dont hate him , i was just looking at it from the team perspective...

Their competing for division and WS, i know Russell suspension ends in May but i dont see him being actually ready til late may june because he wont have a ST and or any live baseball activity til May..
So were looking at 8-9 mos of no baseball or live baseball activity for him.

So who knows how he gonna be when he does return and what if whoever starts the season at 2B is playing good, would it be fair or smart to pull them in favor of Russell?

Why i thought maybe it would be best to just part with him and move on sooner then later..
Plus i think nikko hoerner gonna be the guy eventually with Baez

 

[chibears55]

If they retain him they are looking around 4-5M against cap. I really don’t know if it is wise he get into a Arb battle with Boras over this honestly. He accepted the punishment. Done.

Imo this feels like, “well we can get a feel about the reactions by the base by leaking a story.” If it affects bottom line cut. If a hot topic but not boiling. Use against Boras in Arb and underse. If meh topic well out side of WTF is wrong with people now, they have to decide if he is their SS or not going forward.

The whole PR crap on him and his wife is just that. A bunch of BS. They are divorced. Let them move on and stop getting involved to make your selves look good...

I personally think Hoerner gonna be their guy going forward with Baez...

Part of why i originally felt they would just move on from him and just go with Zobrist and Bote or whomever at 2B for the most part of this year and then possibly Hoerner later in year if he moves up the ladder quickly

Now im just gonna sit back and just see what they do between now and winter meeting cause all these rumors are gonna bouncing back and forth

 

[CSF77]

I personally think Hoerner gonna be their guy going forward with Baez...

Part of why i originally felt they would just move on from him and just go with Zobrist and Bote or whomever at 2B for the most part of this year and then possibly Hoerner later in year if he moves up the ladder quickly

Now im just gonna sit back and just see what they do between now and winter meeting cause all these rumors are gonna bouncing back and forth

Nico shouldn’t be viewed like this. He could turn up like Almora, Happ or Schwarber. Nice player but not a Bryant. I’m pretty old school about new blood. They have to earn playing time and should never be guaranteed anything.

 

[chibears55]

Nico shouldn’t be viewed like this. He could turn up like Almora, Happ or Schwarber. Nice player but not a Bryant. I’m pretty old school about new blood. They have to earn playing time and should never be guaranteed anything.

Im not comparing him to Bryant and he doesn't need to be a Bryant..

He a 21 YO kid who plays a solid SS and has in a very short stint has shown he can handle the bat..

I said If he keeps producing and moves up the ladder he can be an option later this season ( 2nd half)..
If not , then at some point next year

But

I only mentioned him as an option as to someone i think their hoping will be the future SS or 2Bmen over Russell

 

[CSF77]

Im not comparing him to Bryant and he doesn't need to be a Bryant..

He a 21 YO kid who plays a solid SS and has in a very short stint has shown he can handle the bat..

I said If he keeps producing and moves up the ladder he can be an option later this season ( 2nd half)..
If not , then at some point next year

But

I only mentioned him as an option as to someone i think their hoping will be the future SS or 2Bmen over Russell

The future takes care of it self. That is why you overload.

To be honest they should have bit on Schwarber when given the opertunity and held their MI depth. But they felt that they were over loaded there are rolled the dice on a ring.

It worked

Now looking forward: Nico is a chip at this point. We really can’t judge him off of hitting against younger talent. AFL is a closer guage but we are talking about guys that played all year long and maybe worn. Or others that were on the DL and making up lost time. Or any other combo. Not to mention it is Azl and very hitter friendly conditions. Been there a few times so...

I liked that they picked up that guy from the Mets. It makes a nice back up at SS. Bote IMO should get more love in 2019. He has big game feel about him. Big stage big moments. The numbers do not suggest starter so you have to stick with Zo at 2B.

Now if Nico takes the next step in 19 great. He becomes a intriguing decision but I wouldn’t bank on it at this point.

 

[kapooncha]

Im not comparing him to Bryant and he doesn't need to be a Bryant..

He a 21 YO kid who plays a solid SS and has in a very short stint has shown he can handle the bat..

I said If he keeps producing and moves up the ladder he can be an option later this season ( 2nd half)..
If not , then at some point next year

But

I only mentioned him as an option as to someone i think their hoping will be the future SS or 2Bmen over Russell

Dude the Cubs are in a "WIN NOW" window. Forget about kids who may turn up in a year or two or three. Irrelevant as far as I'm concerned. Put the players who are going to best put the Cubs in a position to win now. If Cubs aren't going after Machado (and I don't think they are), Russell is your best bet. Where can you find his talent for $5M? Gimme a break.

 

[kapooncha]

Better question is why don’t you hate him enough?

Why would I hate him? He's young, cheap, probably going to improve. And he was a big part of us winning the WS in 2016. What happened between him and his wife is their business. Has nothing to do with me. MLB punished him, he will serve out his suspension, and then the matter is closed.

 

[chibears55]

Dude the Cubs are in a "WIN NOW" window. Forget about kids who may turn up in a year or two or three. Irrelevant as far as I'm concerned. Put the players who are going to best put the Cubs in a position to win now. If Cubs aren't going after Machado (and I don't think they are), Russell is your best bet. Where can you find his talent for $5M? Gimme a break.

You think Russell will be better when he returns in June then Zobrist/Bote will be all season

What assurance do you have that he wont struggle offensively like he was doing most of 2018 and 2017

 

[beckdawg]

He a 21 YO kid who plays a solid SS

Not really. Most scouts don't view him as a SS long term. He's likely more a utility guy who's maybe a good enough hitter to start. I think you're hoping he's early career Zobrist. But that's largely going to depend on his power. And I say that not to slight him because I like that type of hitter but we need to be realistic here. The guy probably can hit .300 but if you're doing it with 5 HR's you're not a starter.

Not trying to nag on you about this just want people to understand the reality of people who can play SS is harsher than people realize. And maybe with Baez that doesn't matter but I don't think people should be thinking of him as a SS because you're likely going to be disappointed.

 

[kapooncha]

You think Russell will be better when he returns in June then Zobrist/Bote will be all season

What assurance do you have that he wont struggle offensively like he was doing most of 2018 and 2017

Bote is going to be a career backup. Zo is in his late 30s. He needs rest but he should get plenty of playing time.

There are no assurances of anything. I think Russell will bounce back. Regardless of whether he does, his defense is significantly better than Zo/Bote.

 

[TL1961]

You think Russell will be better when he returns in June then Zobrist/Bote will be all season

What assurance do you have that he wont struggle offensively like he was doing most of 2018 and 2017

There's no assurance, of course. We all know that.

What makes you think David Bote is a full time major leaguer? He had a nice month or so. Not so much after that. Pretty "meh" defensively - not bad, but just another guy. I like him OK, but I am nowhere close to convinced he's a plus player at this level. Way too small a sample, and results were not great.

Russell-Baez will be better than Baez-Zobrist or Baez-Bote defensively. (Not that anyone is bad, just that the first combination is the best.)

 

[TL1961]

Officially, only 102 games for Javy at 2B. If it was just when he moved to SS, it would have been different, but so many starts at third I dont know what people were expecting. I remember 2016 when Joe kept the infield the same and got the whole crew to the all star game. You get Javy 130-140 at one position he will win the gold glove.

Agreed. But I want him used to best suit the team so I won't care if he gets moved around. He is great everywhere. If he moves to SS he will need to be steady on the routine, but he certainly can go get it, and has a gun.

 

[kapooncha]

Agreed. But I want him used to best suit the team so I won't care if he gets moved around. He is great everywhere. If he moves to SS he will need to be steady on the routine, but he certainly can go get it, and has a gun.

It could work but there is no need. Just put Russell at SS and Baez at 2B, where they belong.

 

[chibears55]

Not really. Most scouts don't view him as a SS long term. He's likely more a utility guy who's maybe a good enough hitter to start. I think you're hoping he's early career Zobrist. But that's largely going to depend on his power. And I say that not to slight him because I like that type of hitter but we need to be realistic here. The guy probably can hit .300 but if you're doing it with 5 HR's you're not a starter.

Not trying to nag on you about this just want people to understand the reality of people who can play SS is harsher than people realize. And maybe with Baez that doesn't matter but I don't think people should be thinking of him as a SS because you're likely going to be disappointed.

There's no assurance, of course. We all know that.

What makes you think David Bote is a full time major leaguer? He had a nice month or so. Not so much after that. Pretty "meh" defensively - not bad, but just another guy. I like him OK, but I am nowhere close to convinced he's a plus player at this level. Way too small a sample, and results were not great.

Russell-Baez will be better than Baez-Zobrist or Baez-Bote defensively. (Not that anyone is bad, just that the first combination is the best.)

My whole point to this was basically if they did decide to trade Russell between now and trade deadline, they have other players to fill in at 2B/SS at least for 2019..

Beck, i mentioned 2B for Hoerner too in another post here and no im not assuming he a long term answer now, just saying he a future option if he continues to hit up the ladder..

But back to my point, they have Zobrist and Bote right now who can cover 2B til a better option comes along if they choose to move Russell over waiting and seeing if he can come back and produce in the middle of trying to win the division etc...


TL... i don't have assurances on Bote, i do think Zobrist would get majority of PT at 2B up until Russell returns or beyond if he doesn't

Plus going Zobrist/Bote route at 2B over eventually returning Russell at SS saves them about 5 mil of salary if their looking to cut cost for a certain signing

 

[CSF77]

I’ll give my honest insight here.

If it is a PR nightmare they need to not offer him Arb.

If they are trying to budget to get Harper in. They need to not offer him Arb.

If they are planning to retain:

They need to play it up and force his 2019 Arb value down. They are losing 30 days to his suspension. He is coming off a 88 wRC+ so his impact is less than his peers.

Right now I would feel the buzz on offering and I would offer bare min that they are allowed to. If Boras comes across as a hard ass vs a Agent telling his player to be thankful to even see a major league park again walk away from it.

Now if that happens sure. Because they have nothing to justify shit.

Now as far as the crowd here:

Guy is a turd. If it was your personal family member I doubt anyone would pass it off. So let’s get that bit strait.

2nd he is a 88 wRC+ player going into this season. Basically a UI. So let’s dont over value a scrub