Offseason rumors/discussion thread

[TL1961]

If you're given a choice of one horrible contract that you HAVE to keep....would it be Chatwood or Fowler? Personally, if I have to see Chatwood pitch as a Cub one more fucking time, I'm gonna barf. With Fowler...maybe he rejuvenates himself coming back to where he had his best success and steps back into the lead off role. If not, it's still far, FAR better than another year of Chatwood.

Chatwood.

I am not going to make it worse by relieving the Cardinals of bad money. Even if they take Chatwood we are giving them relief.

The Cubs have no place to play Fowler where he is the best option, but Joe splitsbplaying time so he would play, both costing us money AND worsening the team.

At least Chatwood could stay off the field.

And as pollyanna as it might sound, I have hopes he could improve his control. At least a better chance than Fowler can improve his D and reverse aging.

I guess my biggest objection is falling into sentimentality and reacquiring players for that reason. That kills.

I fully appreciate Fowlers contribution but that time has passed

 

[CSF77]

Chatwood.

I am not going to make it worse by relieving the Cardinals of bad money. Even if they take Chatwood we are giving them relief.

The Cubs have no place to play Fowler where he is the best option, but Joe splitsbplaying time so he would play, both costing us money AND worsening the team.

At least Chatwood could stay off the field.

And as pollyanna as it might sound, I have hopes he could improve his control. At least a better chance than Fowler can improve his D and reverse aging.

I guess my biggest objection is falling into sentimentality and reacquiring players for that reason. That kills.

I fully appreciate Fowlers contribution but that time has passed

I’m not sure if it is age or park factor. STL plays diffrent than CHC.

Speed was never a tool for him. It was taking pitches. So I’m not sure age plays up as much with him.

As far as best option goes.

Here is a theorycraft that I came up with.

First trade Chatwood, Duesing and Kintzler to STL for Fowler.

Then trade Russell, Almora and Happ for Merrifield and a minor league arm.

This puts the team at:

Merrifield
Baez
Rizzo
Bryant
Schwarber
Contreras
Heyward
Pitcher
Fowler

Now this also creates a platoon of Fowler/Heyward in CF and Fowler/Zo in RF with Zo getting AB’s in left also.

Add to it it opens up 3 pen spots. 1 to Chavez 1 to Andrew Miller. Then 1 rotation spot for AAA versatility

 

[chibears55]

I’m not sure if it is age or park factor. STL plays diffrent than CHC.

Speed was never a tool for him. It was taking pitches. So I’m not sure age plays up as much with him.

As far as best option goes.

Here is a theorycraft that I came up with.

First trade Chatwood, Duesing and Kintzler to STL for Fowler.

Then trade Russell, Almora and Happ for Merrifield and a minor league arm.

This puts the team at:

Merrifield
Baez
Rizzo
Bryant
Schwarber
Contreras
Heyward
Pitcher
Fowler

Now this also creates a platoon of Fowler/Heyward in CF and Fowler/Zo in RF with Zo getting AB’s in left also.

Add to it it opens up 3 pen spots. 1 to Chavez 1 to Andrew Miller. Then 1 rotation spot for AAA versatility

Unless the Cardinals are planning on tanking and rebuilding, why in the world would they take 3 garbage pitchers just to move Fowler

If they just want to move Fowler, im sure they can come up with a better option then that

 

[CSF77]

Unless the Cardinals are planning on tanking and rebuilding, why in the world would they take 3 garbage pitchers just to move Fowler

If they just want to move Fowler, im sure they can come up with a better option then that

Fowler: -1.2 fWAR

Kintzler: -.3
Duensing: -.9
Chatwood: -.5

So it comes down to getting out of cash then. Chatwood would cost 13M in 2020. Fowler 16M.

 

[chibears55]

Fowler: -1.2 fWAR

Kintzler: -.3
Duensing: -.9
Chatwood: -.5

So it comes down to getting out of cash then. Chatwood would cost 13M in 2020. Fowler 16M.

Lol

3 mil not gonna make or break them

 

[Omeletpants]

test

 

[anotheridiot]

We should be so happy to have not paid Fowler all that money and get away from him. The bigger joke in ST Louis was thinking he was a right fielder.

 

[CSF77]

Lol

3 mil not gonna make or break them

True on both side. Fowler had a bad year. He put up 2.5 the year previous.

Like I said if was part of a greater movement to gain Witt and utilize him and Zobrist to work alongside Schwarber and Heyward.

To me you play Heyward in the difficult spot and use either Fowler or Zobrist at the off spot. Schwarber at this point you see as full time and force LHP matchups or you see him as a strait platoon and get a serious mate

 

[chibears55]

True on both side. Fowler had a bad year. He put up 2.5 the year previous.

Like I said if was part of a greater movement to gain Witt and utilize him and Zobrist to work alongside Schwarber and Heyward.

To me you play Heyward in the difficult spot and use either Fowler or Zobrist at the off spot. Schwarber at this point you see as full time and force LHP matchups or you see him as a strait platoon and get a serious mate

I trust Theo and Jed in making the right moves...

Id be happy if Almora takes over CF because there enough offense around him and they can just be happy with his defense ans whatever he offers with the bat

 

[CSF77]

I trust Theo and Jed in making the right moves...

Id be happy if Almora takes over CF because there enough offense around him and they can just be happy with his defense ans whatever he offers with the bat

Any guy that doesn't walk needs to hit over .300. Bottom line.

Basically >5% < .300. If not you are wasting your time with him.

1st half Almora you can goto bed with. 2nd half you can't inbetween you trade now before his value goes down.

So if he hit .320 with a 3% BB rate then you start him every day. period.

If he is a .280 3% guy he is good enough to keep but his value is good enough to trade also. Sitting on him as his payday is is increasing is not smart then. They can get that from Heyward who they are far more invested into and then upgrade RF.

 

[Castor76]

Harper is the most overrated player in MLB

That's a convincing argument.

What is it you don't like? His great OBP? His numbers with RISP. RISP w/ 2 Outs? I know he has a bad habit of not playing over 120 games, so that's why I'd want a games played protection built into the contract.

 

[Omeletpants]

That's a convincing argument.

What is it you don't like? His great OBP? His numbers with RISP. RISP w/ 2 Outs? I know he has a bad habit of not playing over 120 games, so that's why I'd want a games played protection built into the contract.

How about his .279 BA and that he has never had more than 100 RBIs on a good team. Or his below average defense. Not exactly credentials for a $400M investment

 

[Castor76]

How about his .279 BA and that he has never had more than 100 RBIs on a good team. Or his below average defense. Not exactly credentials for a $400M investment

RBI are more of how often you come up with runners on and in scoring position. The last 3 seasons he's a .300 hitter with a .450+ OBP and .550 SLG in the 3 main Runners On categories. And he had a decent chunk of ABs batting #2, not exactly known for RBI.

You put him batting #3 behind Zobrist and Bryant and there's about a 67% chance that his first AB every game comes with a runner on or a run already in. It's about 14% that there's 2 on or a run or runs in.

So if he's healthy, which is a BIG if, and he played 150 games, that would be 100 that he'd have at least one runner on. And by his recent numbers, he'd get a hit 30% of the time and get on base himself 45%. It's conceivable he'd have 30 RBI just in the first innings of game. Then you factor in the over 70% chance that the #4 batter hits in the inning.

 

[CSF77]

How about his .279 BA and that he has never had more than 100 RBIs on a good team. Or his below average defense. Not exactly credentials for a $400M investment

He has avg 4.38 WAR per year thus far.

A study by Fangraphs argued that in the 2014 season, the mean (or average) value of one WAR was $7 million, and the median was $5.9 million. In theory, a 5-win player should have been worth $35 million on the market that year.

 

[beckdawg]

If the cubs aren't looking to spend big I wouldn't hate them kicking the tires on Ian Kinsler. At 37 coming off a year he hit .240/.301/.380 and the year after hitting .236/.313/.412 there's no way he's going to be expensive. While those numbers are less than stellar he's a career .283 BABIP and the past 2 years his BABIp has been .244 followed by .250. He's a high contact guy(8.4%/12.% bb/k) with a little speed(averaged 15 SB past 2 years). He also plays a position where he could actually see some playing time if we assume Zobrist is a likely RF given their current set up. Given they seem likely to run with Russell after his suspension Kinsler would at least provide some real competition that might push him to the bench plus he'd cover the first month of the season.

I'm sure the fanbase would be less than thrilled by the signing but were he to be signed I would sort of like it because you're not really committing long term and he could be a cheap vet impact who is coming in off a down year. He's also been a lead off hitter for the majority of his career. I think I like that better than say trading for Merrifield from the Royals who's already going to be 30 at the start of the season and who really only has the one stand out year. Kinsler has also been like fringe gold glove defense at 2B.

 

[CSF77]

If the cubs aren't looking to spend big I wouldn't hate them kicking the tires on Ian Kinsler. At 37 coming off a year he hit .240/.301/.380 and the year after hitting .236/.313/.412 there's no way he's going to be expensive. While those numbers are less than stellar he's a career .283 BABIP and the past 2 years his BABIp has been .244 followed by .250. He's a high contact guy(8.4%/12.% bb/k) with a little speed(averaged 15 SB past 2 years). He also plays a position where he could actually see some playing time if we assume Zobrist is a likely RF given their current set up. Given they seem likely to run with Russell after his suspension Kinsler would at least provide some real competition that might push him to the bench plus he'd cover the first month of the season.

I'm sure the fanbase would be less than thrilled by the signing but were he to be signed I would sort of like it because you're not really committing long term and he could be a cheap vet impact who is coming in off a down year. He's also been a lead off hitter for the majority of his career. I think I like that better than say trading for Merrifield from the Royals who's already going to be 30 at the start of the season and who really only has the one stand out year. Kinsler has also been like fringe gold glove defense at 2B.

IDK honestly. I still feel that they are doing nothing and going to wait on Russell’s return. Zobrist holds the fort at 2B. If they go over board it will be on Murphy. He filled a Lead off void and they have Russell returning for late D.

I’m not sure how I would feel like if they went status Que honestly. Platoon Heyward/Almora. Zo in RF with Happ.

I could see a 3/45 to Murphy

Murphy
Baez
Rizzo
Bryant
Zobrist
Heyward
Contreras
Schwarber

Bench: Russell, Happ, Almora, Cartiani

It is pretty status Que but Bryant healthy the line up should improve naturally.

It is almost worth giving this 1 last shot before wrecking it. Think they deserve it. Last year was marred

To be honest I feel this is the intended direction. Another team may offer more but honestly it goes over 3/45 then you look at trades.

 

[kapooncha]

If we go status quo, we lose. Cubs have basically stayed status quo since 2016 (pitching downgrade by choosing Garbish over Arrieta).

 

[anotheridiot]

If the cubs aren't looking to spend big I wouldn't hate them kicking the tires on Ian Kinsler. At 37 coming off a year he hit .240/.301/.380 and the year after hitting .236/.313/.412 there's no way he's going to be expensive. While those numbers are less than stellar he's a career .283 BABIP and the past 2 years his BABIp has been .244 followed by .250. He's a high contact guy(8.4%/12.% bb/k) with a little speed(averaged 15 SB past 2 years). He also plays a position where he could actually see some playing time if we assume Zobrist is a likely RF given their current set up. Given they seem likely to run with Russell after his suspension Kinsler would at least provide some real competition that might push him to the bench plus he'd cover the first month of the season.

I'm sure the fanbase would be less than thrilled by the signing but were he to be signed I would sort of like it because you're not really committing long term and he could be a cheap vet impact who is coming in off a down year. He's also been a lead off hitter for the majority of his career. I think I like that better than say trading for Merrifield from the Royals who's already going to be 30 at the start of the season and who really only has the one stand out year. Kinsler has also been like fringe gold glove defense at 2B.

Zobrist in his last year, Bote, Happ, LaStella, oh and Russell is coming back so Javy will be there too. I just dont get the "need" for a second baseman. Doesn't anyone think that Zobrist should not be running around in the outfield anymore?

 

[CSF77]

If we go status quo, we lose. Cubs have basically stayed status quo since 2016 (pitching downgrade by choosing Garbish over Arrieta).

If any team suffers injury to their best hitter. 2nd best pitcher is lost to injury. Closer lost. 5th pitcher loses command. They normally become sellers. Cubs won 95 games with this loser squad.

Sometimes you write stuff that is shit. You need to look at it as it is. They were injured. And they still were playing at a higher th level.

You just add depth like Andrew Miller because Morrow is a continuous injury risk. Darvish was a impingement which is a fix in surgery. Morrow’s issues are cronic and you need to protect your self there.

That is where you need to invest.

Lead off is the 2nd spot. This is a spend on a F/A or trade for one. Or roll the dice on Almora in house.

 

[CSF77]

Running Lester/Hendricks/Hamels/Darvish/Quintana. That is a better rotation than 2016. Morrow is better than Rondon was. Strop is better than he was. Bryant and Rizzo have to produce again. Baez is far better than he was. Zo is off a strong year.
So that lack the impact lead off that Fowler gave. Schwarber was gone that year so his impact is nil. Heyward sucked that year so same thung.

Honestly it is more about getting production on track vs replacement. Sure they need a lead off. That is it. They played their best ball with Murphy so this line up requires one.