Offseason rumors/discussion thread

[CSF77]

Flowers is a career .239/.319/.390(94 wRC+) hitter. Conteras is a career .266/.349/.450(113 wRC+) hitter and theres reason to believe there is even more there than that. That's effectively the difference between heyward and harper and substantially cheaper. That's why this idea makes 0 sense.

99 wRC+ was Heywards best season. 135 on Harper is closer to a subperformance.

Contreras is a catcher and it affects the pitching staff. Citing O production value n a catcher should never be your goto.

 

[CSF77]

I think the mindset here would be partly replacing two guys who would be 6-8 hitters on the team with a guy who would be a #8 but better at the dish and with a certified #3 hitter.

Pretty much. The reality is do nothing or go large. I’ll be honest here and say Contreras is a great athlete and potentially a great hitter. He could become a solid game caller over time. That will never make him a league avg framer. Framing is a skill set. It is there or it is not. It is based off of head stability. Head moves towards the ball it makes the ump think it is off the plate more. Head stable makes him think it is in the zone. Basic shit. That is a talent vs a experience gain

 

[TL1961]

99 wRC+ was Heywards best season. 135 on Harper is closer to a subperformance.

Contreras is a catcher and it affects the pitching staff. Citing O production value n a catcher should never be your goto.

But Contreras' effect on the itching is negative.

Also, Harper must have a much, much better offensive impact in order to replace Heyward, because the defensive difference is massive, and would be costly.

 

[Omeletpants]

Harper would be a reach and hurt this team's flexibility years down the road

 

[beckdawg]

99 wRC+ was Heywards best season. 135 on Harper is closer to a subperformance.

Contreras is a catcher and it affects the pitching staff. Citing O production value n a catcher should never be your goto.

Flowers is making $4 mil next year. If we assume Harper is $30 mil a season then you're talking about $34 mil vs $20 mil for Heyward and ~$600k for Contreras. Contreras may be a poor framer but he's excellent in every other regard defensively and Heyward is vastly superior to Harper. You cite harper's "sub performance" but ignore Contreras'. And on top of matters you'd also have about $13 mil more to spend else where in the exchange. And that's before you talk about the fact that the aforementioned idea also talked about the cubs chipping in money.

The deal is fucking TERRIBLE from the cubs perspective.

 

[Castor76]

Harper would be a reach and hurt this team's flexibility years down the road

But it's not about "down the road." This is about, at most, the next 5 seasons. Boston has 4 titles in the past 15 years and had an almost completely different team each time. They had 3 different managers and neither of the previous two left because they wanted to leave. Is a contract for Harper a team altering deal? Yes it is, good or bad. Give him an opt out at 3 years, which he'll probably want as part of it to begin with, and you an get out of it as fast as he might want. If it goes bad, the window would be just about closed anyway. If it was that bad, you'd probably be trading Bryant, Baez, and whoever else is left. to build for the next runs.

 

[TL1961]

Tulowitzki to the Yankees.

 

[JimJohnson]

But it's not about "down the road." This is about, at most, the next 5 seasons. Boston has 4 titles in the past 15 years and had an almost completely different team each time. They had 3 different managers and neither of the previous two left because they wanted to leave. Is a contract for Harper a team altering deal? Yes it is, good or bad. Give him an opt out at 3 years, which he'll probably want as part of it to begin with, and you an get out of it as fast as he might want. If it goes bad, the window would be just about closed anyway. If it was that bad, you'd probably be trading Bryant, Baez, and whoever else is left. to build for the next runs.

Yup, you've got maybe 3 more seasons to try and win another one. You've got to just go for it.

 

[Castor76]

Tulowitzki to the Yankees.

Guess he wants to get lots of chances to stick to Toronto. Plus they have a good chance to win.

 

[Castor76]

Yup, you've got maybe 3 more seasons to try and win another one. You've got to just go for it.

Which is why I call up Boras without making any other moves and say "14 years, 400 M, 5 M per year held back as games played bonus, so it's 14/330 M guaranteed. Full NTC for year 1-3, Block to 12 in year 4 and 8 in year 5. Opt outs at years 3 and 8. If the teams wins the Series in the first 5 seasons or he wins 2 MVPs in that time, the yearly bonuses are locked in" Longest deal for the most money in league history even with the 70 M held back. AAV is just over 28.5 M if you add in the bonus for games played. Otherwise it's just slightly more than the Heyward deal.

 

[JimJohnson]

Tulowitzki to the Yankees.

League min deal. Guessing the Cubs weren't that serious as that's an easy offer to top.

 

[Castor76]

League min deal. Guessing the Cubs weren't that serious as that's an easy offer to top.

There's no topping. Toronto has to pay him the 38 M over the next two years minus what ever he gets from whatever team. Unless someone was going to pay him over that, he's not making more money. This was literally a "Where do I want to go?" question and that was it.

 

[chibears55]

Tulowitzki to the Yankees.

No Machado....

Told you all, I doubt teams are going to be spending that crazy money with years on these guys anymore

 

[CSF77]

No Machado....

Told you all, I doubt teams are going to be spending that crazy money with years on these guys anymore

They really didn’t need him. D.G. Will be back in the summer.

I’ve felt that the market will end up teams 110M and lower looking for a Box office draw.

 

[CSF77]

But Contreras' effect on the itching is negative.

Also, Harper must have a much, much better offensive impact in order to replace Heyward, because the defensive difference is massive, and would be costly.

We don’t know if 2018 was a outlier for Harper. He was league avg up until then.

Even then he was about a -10 DRS. Going by Beck’s rule of 2DRS = 1 wRC+ his over all is still +15. Heyward is 99 wRC+ and a 3 DRS which is a 5 net. Basically a upgrade. Both go back to their normal D years still gives a +10 to Harper

 

[CSF77]

There's no topping. Toronto has to pay him the 38 M over the next two years minus what ever he gets from whatever team. Unless someone was going to pay him over that, he's not making more money. This was literally a "Where do I want to go?" question and that was it.

This was about opertunity. Cubs were going to play Baez at SS. Even then they had another SS in May. Yanks had a larger window of SS opertunity

 

[anotheridiot]

No Machado....

Told you all, I doubt teams are going to be spending that crazy money with years on these guys anymore

I dont think if the yankees were looking at Machado, it was not to play SS. Dont underestimate being beaten by the red sox.

 

[CSF77]

I dont think if the yankees were looking at Machado, it was not to play SS. Dont underestimate being beaten by the red sox.

Manny at 3B was the offer IMO and then trade Andujar. D.G. is a 4 WAR player and left handed in a RH dominate line up. His extension is just a matter of time. NYY would be a better team fit and willing to move back to 3B. On a undesirable (CWS/Phi)then contract and SS become more locked in.

 

[smknivy420]

This was about opertunity. Cubs were going to play Baez at SS. Even then they had another SS in May. Yanks had a larger window of SS opertunity

Exactly.

 

[CSF77]

Today is becoming interesting.

Yanks sign Troy to fill SS. Feels Manny snub.

Phils have a meeting with Harper after both Harp and Manny flicked the dislike on them.