Offseason rumors/discussion thread

[chibears55]

Something I was thinking about this morning... A week from today is the 7 year anniversary of the Garza trade from TB. Just a reminder that while it's fun to envision moves/trades that improve the team sometimes the best move is to do nothing. That's not to say trading for Garza was necessarily a dumb move but ultimately think you would rather have had Archer.

I hated that trade...

Had a bad team in 2010 and really didn't do much to upgrade the team/offense..
Kept a terrible manager in quade and signed a terrible 1st basemen in Carlos Pena was their only other key moves that offseason..

To me that was a wasted trade to unload some kids for a good pitcher who had no chance because the team and manager around him sucked

 

[anotheridiot]

I happen to believe if you went with a Almora and Zobrist swapping back and forth from Lead Off and the #6 slot, they could be very effective.

I would much rather see that than to bounce them to every spot on the lineup, just dont know why nobody ever mentions Javy leading off.

 

[CSF77]

I hated that trade...

Had a bad team in 2010 and really didn't do much to upgrade the team/offense..
Kept a terrible manager in quade and signed a terrible 1st basemen in Carlos Pena was their only other key moves that offseason..

To me that was a wasted trade to unload some kids for a good pitcher who had no chance because the team and manager around him sucked

Archer was the best player. But even so I wouldn’t call him a ace. He has been on a good team and has not become another Price. I honestly think of him on A Smyly level talent. Snell has taken it to the next level.

The other pieces were AAAA quality talent. 2 have floated around.

Hendry was not good at drafting and at developing talent. Archer came in from the Delrosa trade and was flipped out in the Garza deal.

 

[CSF77]

In reguards to the 2019 Cubs. The only pitcher they have is Martinez that turns heads. Lacey was a hot item and bought Cole.

I’m more concerned on the Q deal than that honestly.

Alozay IMO ends up another Edwards. They have never proven to be able to develop a TOR.

 

[CSF77]

I would much rather see that than to bounce them to every spot on the lineup, just dont know why nobody ever mentions Javy leading off.

His OBA sucks.
He is undisciplined
Last year might be his best year

We can go on

I will tell you that the 1 hitter with the tool set is Happ. He takes walks at a remarkable rate. The core problem for him is .202 hitting RH. A solid walk rate can not over come that BA. As a lefty he his .244 and honestly with his walk rate it comes out to a .300 OBA hitting R and .350 hitting left.

So in reality the way to solve this is a strait Almora/Happ CF platoon. That is a legit lead off solution.

 

[Diehardfan]

His OBA sucks.
He is undisciplined
Last year might be his best year

We can go on

I will tell you that the 1 hitter with the tool set is Happ. He takes walks at a remarkable rate. The core problem for him is .202 hitting RH. A solid walk rate can not over come that BA. As a lefty he his .244 and honestly with his walk rate it comes out to a .300 OBA hitting R and .350 hitting left.

So in reality the way to solve this is a strait Almora/Happ CF platoon. That is a legit lead off solution.

You are correct, batting Javy leadoff is completely stupid.

I too believe Happ has the tools to leadoff...with the Cub's depth they could even work around his problems vs lefties if they continue but in 2017 he actually hit left better than right, it's probably not set in stone. What he needs to do is make more contact if they want him to lead off. Funny, Beck just posted that sometimes the best trades are the ones you don't make...they may have the lead off guy they need already here.

 

[CSF77]

You are correct, batting Javy leadoff is completely stupid.

I too believe Happ has the tools to leadoff...with the Cub's depth they could even work around his problems vs lefties if they continue but in 2017 he actually hit left better than right, it's probably not set in stone. What he needs to do is make more contact if they want him to lead off. Funny, Beck just posted that sometimes the best trades are the ones you don't make...they may have the lead off guy they need already here.

I think we are being distracted with the Harper mania. That solution is pretty simple. If you can trade Heyward then sign Harper. There is no other solution.

Happ/Almora CF
Bryant 3B
Rizzo 1B
Zobrist 2B
Baez SS
Schwarber LF
Contreras C
Heyward RF

should be the staple.

Now on trading Heyward I did link a opinion from a Atl site that said Contreras and Heyward for Flowers saves the Cubs 13M which would goto Harper. I’m not against it.

 

[CSF77]

Sounds like Wilson’s younger brother is in their system and the idea of a brother catcher tandem holds appeal.

Cubs have Cartiani as a back up and bringing in Flowers to manage the staff only helps. Then they have Amaya in MB about 3 years out. Maybe less as he is already a decent framer.

 

[Castor76]

His walk rate will prevent him from being seriously concidered. To be a effective lead with a walk rate under 5% he would have to hit .330. And banking on that is foolish.

But it is what he did for nearly 200 ABs when asked to do it. If he just batted Lead Off versus lefty starters and was put in the #6 slot against RHP starters, but was otherwise knew he'd be in the line up, he'd be effective.

 

[Castor76]

I would much rather see that than to bounce them to every spot on the lineup, just dont know why nobody ever mentions Javy leading off.

Javy's a #4 guy. He was insane in the #3 slot and might ever really flourish in between Bryant and Rizzo, but that was less than 100 ABs.

 

[CSF77]

Javy's a #4 guy. He was insane in the #3 slot and might ever really flourish in between Bryant and Rizzo, but that was less than 100 ABs.

I like him hitting 5. Zo holds a better BA and OBA.

 

[Castor76]

I think we are being distracted with the Harper mania. That solution is pretty simple. If you can trade Heyward then sign Harper. There is no other solution.

Happ/Almora CF
Bryant 3B
Rizzo 1B
Zobrist 2B
Baez SS
Schwarber LF
Contreras C
Heyward RF

should be the staple.

Now on trading Heyward I did link a opinion from a Atl site that said Contreras and Heyward for Flowers saves the Cubs 13M which would goto Harper. I’m not against it.

Harper signing is a distraction, but otherwise it's a lot of hoping guys get healthy and develop and produce like expected.

Another idea to toss around is Quintana for prospects packaged with Schwarber, Happ, and Heyward to Cleveland for Kluber. It gives Cleveland offensive upgrades at all 3 OF slots and only costs them about 6 M more. They are currently about 20 M less than where they were last year. It gives the Cubs about 17 M to go after Harper and slots the remaining starters one spot down. Cleveland might even take Q so they can use him or move him in their own deal later.

 

[Castor76]

I like him hitting 5. Zo holds a better BA and OBA.

I'd put Zo #5 when I wasn't batting him lead off to have a stronger bat after Javy and to act as a 2nd set up man for the bottom half of the line up. Javy hit into 11 DP last season. So he isn't a huge risk at that.

 

[beckdawg]

Sounds like Wilson’s younger brother is in their system and the idea of a brother catcher tandem holds appeal.

Cubs have Cartiani as a back up and bringing in Flowers to manage the staff only helps. Then they have Amaya in MB about 3 years out. Maybe less as he is already a decent framer.

I don't know why you are even entertaining this idea. It's not happening. I don't care how much the cubs want harper, you don't trade your starting C when he's of the quality of contreras unless it's to improve him some how. Plus, Contreras is worth way more than $50 mil in surplus value that you'd likely get from "saving" heyward. The trade is insanely slanted toward Atlanta.

 

[CSF77]

Harper signing is a distraction, but otherwise it's a lot of hoping guys get healthy and develop and produce like expected.

Another idea to toss around is Quintana for prospects packaged with Schwarber, Happ, and Heyward to Cleveland for Kluber. It gives Cleveland offensive upgrades at all 3 OF slots and only costs them about 6 M more. They are currently about 20 M less than where they were last year. It gives the Cubs about 17 M to go after Harper and slots the remaining starters one spot down. Cleveland might even take Q so they can use him or move him in their own deal later.

If they spend it should be towards upgrading the O.

Like I said before if they decided to trade Heyward and Contreras for Flowers it makes perfect sense. Atl is looking for a catcher and a RF. Cubs need cash relief.

As far as the pen is concerned I am intrigued with Darvish as a closing option in Apr with Strop. His spot was covered by Montgomery anyways. This could even turn into to a Montgomery/Chatwood battle.

The best solution here is Darvish eases back in Apr which lowers the over all innings on his arm this year. He is a plus pitcher so you really are not going to get his equal on the market. Add ito it adds 0 dollars and gives Chatwood a chance to earn trade weight.

 

[CSF77]

I don't know why you are even entertaining this idea. It's not happening. I don't care how much the cubs want harper, you don't trade your starting C when he's of the quality of contreras unless it's to improve him some how. Plus, Contreras is worth way more than $50 mil in surplus value that you'd likely get from "saving" heyward. The trade is insanely slanted toward Atlanta.

The thought came from a Atl related website. They think it was a valid Idea as Heyward was a Brave and they have a need in RF anyways. They are not spending on Harper so Heyward becomes a solid option for them. Flowers is a vet. Contreras was the league’s worst framer. But his cost makes him desirable to Atl. Add to it his younger brother is in their system making a nice tandem

It only makes sense for the Cubs if they go after Harper. That is it. And the reasoning is that they need more offensive depth. Heyward was a 99 wRC+. Harper 135. Enuf said there.

I really don’t think adding a Kluber affects the team the same way. The staff is not a glaring weakness. The O was.

Again this issue can be solved at 0 cost by pushing Darvish into Morrow’s vacancy. The benefits outweigh adding a cheap fix.

Anyways the deal would cut 13M. That would go towards Harper. It is not about a trade balance. It is about payroll reduction and you have to lose to win that.

 

[CSF77]

Anyways Contreras ended up worse last year with out a vet to guide him. Having another inexperienced to back him up didn’t help. Flipping Flowers helps the staff as he is a better game caller. Add to it it allows Cartiani to learn under him.

 

[beckdawg]

The thought came from a Atl related website. They think it was a valid Idea as Heyward was a Brave and they have a need in RF anyways. They are not spending on Harper so Heyward becomes a solid option for them. Flowers is a vet. Contreras was the league’s worst framer. But his cost makes him desirable to Atl. Add to it his younger brother is in their system making a nice tandem

It only makes sense for the Cubs if they go after Harper. That is it. And the reasoning is that they need more offensive depth. Heyward was a 99 wRC+. Harper 135. Enuf said there.

I really don’t think adding a Kluber affects the team the same way. The staff is not a glaring weakness. The O was.

Again this issue can be solved at 0 cost by pushing Darvish into Morrow’s vacancy. The benefits outweigh adding a cheap fix.

Anyways the deal would cut 13M. That would go towards Harper. It is not about a trade balance. It is about payroll reduction and you have to lose to win that.

Flowers is a career .239/.319/.390(94 wRC+) hitter. Conteras is a career .266/.349/.450(113 wRC+) hitter and theres reason to believe there is even more there than that. That's effectively the difference between heyward and harper and substantially cheaper. That's why this idea makes 0 sense.

 

[Castor76]

If they spend it should be towards upgrading the O.

Like I said before if they decided to trade Heyward and Contreras for Flowers it makes perfect sense. Atl is looking for a catcher and a RF. Cubs need cash relief.

As far as the pen is concerned I am intrigued with Darvish as a closing option in Apr with Strop. His spot was covered by Montgomery anyways. This could even turn into to a Montgomery/Chatwood battle.

The best solution here is Darvish eases back in Apr which lowers the over all innings on his arm this year. He is a plus pitcher so you really are not going to get his equal on the market. Add ito it adds 0 dollars and gives Chatwood a chance to earn trade weight.

I wouldn't say no to the idea of Darvish in the pen. Maybe he does great and suddenly we have another closer option.

While the starting staff wasn't a real issue last year, the Kluber trade would also be a plan for the future. Lester is coming to an end stage. Hamels is only on for next season unless he re-signs, but not at 20 M, It just adds to the strength, especially for the post season.

This trade would break loose any potential log jam in the OF, shed a not good contract, add to the starting staff, and pave the way for Harper.

 

[Castor76]

Flowers is a career .239/.319/.390(94 wRC+) hitter. Conteras is a career .266/.349/.450(113 wRC+) hitter and theres reason to believe there is even more there than that. That's effectively the difference between heyward and harper and substantially cheaper. That's why this idea makes 0 sense.

I think the mindset here would be partly replacing two guys who would be 6-8 hitters on the team with a guy who would be a #8 but better at the dish and with a certified #3 hitter.