Offseason thread

[Diehardfan]

he belongs in the hall and the cubs hall IMO

For his accomplishments on the field, he should be in both but I'm calling for him to also be in the Hall of Tools. He's even more qualified for that. Roids weren't enough for him so he added corked bats to his arsenal, walked out on his team and capped it off by looking like a complete dolt pretending to "no comprende" English in front of a national TV audience.

 

[knoxville7]

For his accomplishments on the field, he should be in both but I'm calling for him to also be in the Hall of Tools. He's even more qualified for that. Roids weren't enough for him so he added corked bats to his arsenal, walked out on his team and capped it off by looking like a complete dolt pretending to "no comprende" English in front of a national TV audience.

for sure, i know all the things that went on

you can do like has been suggested for all the roid users and add something on their plaque's that states what went on during the time they were playing

the HOF is for accomplishments on the field, and like you said, based on that criteria he should be in

 

[Diehardfan]

for sure, i know all the things that went on

you can do like has been suggested for all the roid users and add something on their plaque's that states what went on during the time they were playing

the HOF is for accomplishments on the field, and like you said, based on that criteria he should be in

Yeah, I highly doubt the Cubs thing had anything to do with steroids. It was hardly a secret and he was just one of many. He embarrassed the franchise by playing the fool, pretty sure that's the reason they locked him out.

 

[CSF77]

Game was a level playing field. The pitchers were jacked up also. Less injuries. Players going into their 40's.

I get both sides of the argument.

My opinion is it was not illegal at the time. Is now. It is pretty simple stuff. Move on with it.

 

[CSF77]

But the whole which hunt was shameful

When Mac was breaking the record in 98 there was no attack on baseball. Even in 89 when it started nothing

It started to happen because of Bonds. Call it dislike or racism. I say both after hearing Aaron got death threats.

 

[Discus fish salesman]

But the whole which hunt was shameful

When Mac was breaking the record in 98 there was no attack on baseball. Even in 89 when it started nothing

It started to happen because of Bonds. Call it dislike or racism. I say both after hearing Aaron got death threats.

It started to happen because of bonds? Bonds likely started using because he was watching other players put up prolific HR numbers while he was being overlooked as the best player in baseball without roids.

 

[knoxville7]

It started to happen because of bonds? Bonds likely started using because he was watching other players put up prolific HR numbers while he was being overlooked as the best player in baseball without roids.

this. bonds was tired of seeing mediocre guys put up better power numbers than bonds, at a time when chicks were digging the long ball(and media members/MVP voters).

Bonds is still the greatest hitter I have ever seen and might very well be the greatest hitter/player ever IMO

 

[CSF77]

It started to happen because of bonds? Bonds likely started using because he was watching other players put up prolific HR numbers while he was being overlooked as the best player in baseball without roids.

No. It started to happen when Bonds broke the single season record. When Mac did it there was no backlash. But it was moreso the all time record.

It comes down to the timing. White guy breaks the single season glorious. Black man Senate hearing.

Old news but America is kinda that way with minorities.

 

[TL1961]

for sure, i know all the things that went on

you can do like has been suggested for all the roid users and add something on their plaque's that states what went on during the time they were playing

the HOF is for accomplishments on the field, and like you said, based on that criteria he should be in

I just don’t agree with that. You’ve got a lot of guys whose numbers left them just short of the Hall of Fame while you’re gonna put the roid users in and say “well we’ll put a special wing or an asterisk “, but the bottom line is guys who are not in may have been in under those same circumstances so it’s just not fair.

 

[CSF77]

But back to 2024.

$191,327,381. What fansgrapth has as the current tax. It was released that 10 teams went over tax and the Cubs went 571k over. So I don't expect them to get with in 10M of it. Maybe even 20M so they can add at the deadline.

I believe the best option is to target Bergman for 3B. That moves Shaw to 2B and allows Jed to deal out Hoerner and his 12M hit.

Bergman might cost 30M on 2025. Or 18M after clearing Nico. That puts tax at 214M. Which is about 27M under tax. Scott should cost around 12M. So that becomes doable. SP Brown would be the go-to pending Sasaki's decision. And have them sit on Horton in AAA.

I believe that right now they win the NLC. But the Mets and Dodgers are going to spank them at this point. Mets are willing to spend with out restrictions and Jed is going to have to add another power bat to go along with a late inning lefty

 

[CSF77]

I just don’t agree with that. You’ve got a lot of guys whose numbers left them just short of the Hall of Fame while you’re gonna put the Roy users in and say well we’ll put a special wing or an*but the bottom line is guys who are not in may have been in under those same circumstances so it’s just not fair.

There will always be two schools of thought on this

In a vacuum it is not illegal at the time. The playing field was even as most were doing it.

Other side of this is allowing this to continue would have forced kids to jack up to even be looked at by teams. There had to be a stop to it as it is a dangerous substance being forced onto kids looking to get noticed.

It was around back in the early 80's. My best friend was using as a few others. My HS football team was all on it. So it was common and easy to get

I am not against performance enhancing as long as it is safe. These players are professionals and should have a edge and a means to recover faster as they are putting their bodies through far beyond the norm.

But it comes down to the drug? Is it safe? What are the long term implications? Mess with your heart? Shorten life expectancy? Are you forced to go through this to meet the demands of said profession?

So looking at the big picture yes the Gov had no choice. Make a example out of them.

I just don't like the timing. It felt like it was an attack to stop Bonds from breaking the record vs doing the right thing

 

[Probie2429]

Let’s not pretend that the league turned a blind eye to the steroid era (and most likely welcomed it) because chicks dig the long ball. If I remember, attendance was really suffering just prior to when Big Mac and Sosa started hitting dingers left and right.

 

[TL1961]

There will always be two schools of thought on this

In a vacuum it is not illegal at the time. The playing field was even as most were doing it.

Other side of this is allowing this to continue would have forced kids to jack up to even be looked at by teams. There had to be a stop to it as it is a dangerous substance being forced onto kids looking to get noticed.

It was around back in the early 80's. My best friend was using as a few others. My HS football team was all on it. So it was common and easy to get

I am not against performance enhancing as long as it is safe. These players are professionals and should have a edge and a means to recover faster as they are putting their bodies through far beyond the norm.

But it comes down to the drug? Is it safe? What are the long term implications? Mess with your heart? Shorten life expectancy? Are you forced to go through this to meet the demands of said profession?

So looking at the big picture yes the Gov had no choice. Make a example out of them.

I just don't like the timing. It felt like it was an attack to stop Bonds from breaking the record vs doing the right thing

It may be true that there were pitchers juicing at the same time that the hitters were juicing. We know just looking at Roger Clemens’ case that that’s true.

But nobody has put up home run numbers like that before or since so it wasn’t a level playing field. The stats are clearly skewed.

And it comes to the Hall of Fame vote, how do you justify to some guy who had not quite good enough numbers to get into the Hall of Fame from his career in the 1970s that we’re now gonna put in an equal player from the 1990s whose numbers are 10% or 20% greater than his due to the steroids? We’re gonna put them into Cooperstown and put them in a separate section? Meanwhile, the other guy is on the out side looking in.

Don’t get me wrong. I don’t think there’s a lot of guys that are outside the Hall of Fame who should be in. I would say we’ve gone the other way and we’re now squeezing in everybody who was ever in All-Star one time, but I don’t see legal or illegal how you say the accomplishments of a guy on the juice are equal to the accomplishments of a guy who was not.

It sucks for bonds and Roger Clemens because they were clearly Hall of Fame talents without the cheating, but they’re the ones who chose to do it. We didn’t force them to.

 

[TL1961]

Let’s not pretend that the league turned a blind eye to the steroid era (and most likely welcomed it) because chicks dig the long ball. If I remember, attendance was really suffering just prior to when Big Mac and Sosa started hitting dingers left and right.

You mean let’s not forget that they did.

Yes, I think everyone acknowledges that MLB has had a little bit of a double standard in which they benefited from the popularity, but then punished the individuals.

But let’s not pretend that these guys didn’t know it was wrong. If they didn’t know it was wrong. They wouldn’t have hidden it and they wouldn’t of lied about it. Mark McGwire denied it and denied it and denied it and then when he finally comes clean, he pretends that he didn’t do anything wrong. Bullshit you wouldn’t have been denying it.

 

[knoxville7]

I just don’t agree with that. You’ve got a lot of guys whose numbers left them just short of the Hall of Fame while you’re gonna put the roid users in and say “well we’ll put a special wing or an asterisk “, but the bottom line is guys who are not in may have been in under those same circumstances so it’s just not fair.

And that’s fine to have that belief.

I would just counter and say life ain’t fair and no system is flawless

 

[TL1961]

And that’s fine to have that belief.

I would just counter and say life ain’t fair and no system is flawless

Well that is certainly true. And that’s the counter argument for players who did juice but when it was not officially banned.