Okay. So we Rebuild. So what is your Plan?

[Gustavus Adolphus]

Also, let me add: I'm fully on board with the idea of Fred holding back on some things because it's December.

 

[Diddy1122]

I mean listen, I understand completely what you're saying, and I'll go toe to toe with anyone over my own meatballishness on the Chicago Bulls. I just at this point trust Kirk Hinrich to run Hoiberg's offense better than Rose, and that doesn't inspire confidence going forward.

I agree with that sentiment. It just that the overreacting by meatballs is getting a bit much. There's positives to take as well as negatives so far in early part of the season. But really, outside of the Warriors, what team has even looked close to a championship contender? Spurs, maybe?? Outside of that, everything is up in the air right now. No need for everyone to panic.

We're talking about a team that NEVER scrimmaged under Thibs. Not once. That's because Thibs was such a task master who controlled every aspect of the team, they would run over the same plays for hours. He called all of those plays every time down the court. So somehow fans are expecting this team to work well on the fly instantly when they have been conditioned not to for the past five years. That doesn't happen over night and may never happen for some of these players. You can tell who the high bball IQ players are on this team (Gasol, Butler, Noah, Gibson, Hinrich, & McDermott) as they have been succeeding in Hoiberg's open system. Sure the players praised it earlier in the year but I feel like most of that was just them being happy to no long hear constant barking from the sidelines.

As for Rose, honestly, he is the ultimate "damned if you do, damned if you don't" player. I've never seen a star player in Chicago that has been such a polarizing figure. I've supported him through everything and will continue to do so for the rest of his career. I fully believe he will get better as the season progresses but fans need to understand he's trying to play at least ONE SEASON fully healthy start to finish. It's the main reason why he's coming out of the gate slow. He knows fully well that championships aren't won in the regular season (something posters on here mention ad nauseam) so he's playing for the long haul. But he'll still get crucified for it whether he's playing aggressive or not.

 

[Enasic]

So fans who realize this team isn't a championship team and not very enjoyable to watch are meatballs? Or am I missing something?

 

[Diddy1122]

So fans who realize this team isn't a championship team and not very enjoyable to watch are meatballs? Or am I missing something?

I think there's way too much overreacting going on, especially with this ridiculous tank talk. We really don't know what this team is yet under Hoiberg. It's a work in progress. That is something every single Bulls fan needed to realize from the first day of training camp, which I'm not really certain they did. So people are freaking out over a 3rd place start in a competitive Eastern Conference, that has less than 4 games separating #1 from #10. That's ridiculous to me. That's my whole point.

 

[Enasic]

I think there's way too much overreacting going on, especially with this ridiculous tank talk. We really don't know what this team is yet under Hoiberg. It's a work in progress. That is something every single Bulls fan needed to realize from the first day of training camp, which I'm not really certain they did. So people are freaking out over a 3rd place start in a competitive Eastern Conference, that has less than 4 games separating #1 from #10. That's ridiculous to me. That's my whole point.

I don't think most fans expected us to be a championship caliber team this season but probably thought we would look better than this. I suspect that's why there's some tank talk going on. Most people thought Rose would be at least a little better than last year and that guys like Snell and Niko would take a big leap. Well, Rose is one of the worst starting PGs in the league this year and and Niko and Snell haven't taken that next step. In fact, Niko has regressed overall. This just isn't a championship roster and it's pretty much that simple. I don't see a whole lot of reasons to be optimistic about that. The most optimistic thing I've seen this year is that Doug looks like he'll be a pretty good weapon in the future. I think he'll improve his defense and be a productive player. But as a whole, if you're looking at the big picture, at to me that big picture is a championship, this team just isn't there and doesn't have the makeup to get there. If people want to stay "positive" and optimistic and think this team can turn it around in the playoffs when they've proven that's not a wise bet, then that's fine. Everyone has beliefs and opinions. It's a fair tale belief, but hey, it could happen right?

 

[Gustavus Adolphus]

I harp on the regular season thing, but only because some around here have a short memory span.

 

[Diddy1122]

I don't think most fans expected us to be a championship caliber team this season but probably thought we would look better than this. I suspect that's why there's some tank talk going on. Most people thought Rose would be at least a little better than last year and that guys like Snell and Niko would take a big leap. Well, Rose is one of the worst starting PGs in the league this year and and Niko and Snell haven't taken that next step. In fact, Niko has regressed overall. This just isn't a championship roster and it's pretty much that simple. I don't see a whole lot of reasons to be optimistic about that. The most optimistic thing I've seen this year is that Doug looks like he'll be a pretty good weapon in the future. I think he'll improve his defense and be a productive player. But as a whole, if you're looking at the big picture, at to me that big picture is a championship, this team just isn't there and doesn't have the makeup to get there. If people want to stay "positive" and optimistic and think this team can turn it around in the playoffs when they've proven that's not a wise bet, then that's fine. Everyone has beliefs and opinions. It's a fair tale belief, but hey, it could happen right?

The expectations of fans in terms of the reality of the situation have been out of whack since the beginning. Expecting a team to be better than last season right away, when there's an entirely new coaching staff and system, is rather narrow sighted. Look at what has happened to start the season: Dunleavey is out due to back surgery (and is out longer now from trying to come back too soon); Rose misses all of training camp due to ANOTHER surgery (which he's still affected by); Gasol & Mirotic play all summer in the Olympic qualifiers and are unprepared for training camp. These are BIG factors in the uneven start thus far. Let's also add in there that Snell was thrust into the starting lineup (which he clearly was not ready for) thanks to MDJ's injury. (Personally I think it's time McDermott starts but his bench scoring has been crucial.)

If you're looking at the big picure, then look at the rest of the league. Outside of the Warriors right now, there's not a single team in the NBA that looks unbeatable. Even the almighty Cavs don't look that good. The East is more competitive now than it's been in nearly 20 years. The simple fact is we don't even really know what this team can be or how good they can be. It's a work in progress, which I'm getting tired of saying. Hoiberg is doing his best to evolve the Bulls style to the way the game is heading but he has to take small steps, which is what we are seeing now. The biggest mistake a coach can make is trying to force players to become what they aren't. You have to compromise and adjust in your style. Hoiberg has been doing that, which was ultimately Thibs' undoing in Chicago. Sure, it hasn't all come together yet but there's still plenty of season left and no clear cut favorites outside of GS to take home the trophy. All is not lost.

 

[czman]

The players aren't having a hard time learning the offense. The offense is not designed with the talent of the team in mind. They should have rode it out with Thibs and blown it up next season. half ass changes like this never work out and then tend to get worse and the year/seasons go on. A fast majority of this team needs to go or we will be looking at Trestman 2.0.

 

[Axl Rose]

you look at the team and you see Rose and Noah being shells of their former self, you see a unbalanced roster that doesn't have a starting caliber small forward, you see a roster that doesn't fit Hoiberg's philosophy

its easy to understand why people are down about this team. its not an overreaction to discuss rebuilding at this point based on the things ive stated above

we'd be more inclined to be patient about chemistry issues due to new system if we hadn't already seen these same issues last season. its up to the team to prove us naysayers wrong as far as i'm concerned

 

[Enasic]

The expectations of fans in terms of the reality of the situation have been out of whack since the beginning. Expecting a team to be better than last season right away, when there's an entirely new coaching staff and system, is rather narrow sighted. Look at what has happened to start the season: Dunleavey is out due to back surgery (and is out longer now from trying to come back too soon); Rose misses all of training camp due to ANOTHER surgery (which he's still affected by); Gasol & Mirotic play all summer in the Olympic qualifiers and are unprepared for training camp. These are BIG factors in the uneven start thus far. Let's also add in there that Snell was thrust into the starting lineup (which he clearly was not ready for) thanks to MDJ's injury. (Personally I think it's time McDermott starts but his bench scoring has been crucial.)

If you're looking at the big picure, then look at the rest of the league. Outside of the Warriors right now, there's not a single team in the NBA that looks unbeatable. Even the almighty Cavs don't look that good. The East is more competitive now than it's been in nearly 20 years. The simple fact is we don't even really know what this team can be or how good they can be. It's a work in progress, which I'm getting tired of saying. Hoiberg is doing his best to evolve the Bulls style to the way the game is heading but he has to take small steps, which is what we are seeing now. The biggest mistake a coach can make is trying to force players to become what they aren't. You have to compromise and adjust in your style. Hoiberg has been doing that, which was ultimately Thibs' undoing in Chicago. Sure, it hasn't all come together yet but there's still plenty of season left and no clear cut favorites outside of GS to take home the trophy. All is not lost.

Point blank: Do you think this team as currently constructed can win a championship? If the answer is yes, then whatever. You're entitled to your opinion and are definitely in the minority. If the answer is no, I'm not sure what we're even discussing.

 

[The Hawk]

Man, I just have to shake my head about all of you Bulls apologists. It is like your reaction about last years team and the firing of Thibs and hiring of Hoiberg never happened. There were many on this board who jumped for joy when Thibs was fired but he was the cause of all of the Bulls problems and that Freddie was going to solve everything because he was the architect of a wonderful offense at Iowa State. Do you think that the rest of us weren't around then?

Well, I think that you apologists are living in la la land about this Bulls team and its organization. It is a very slow and thin team. No bench and very few guys who can actually shoot the ball. Thibs was the reason why they did as well as they did because he drove that team beyond their talents. Who knows what Freddie will bring? I don't think he'll be around after next season anyway. Gar/Pax will need another scapegoat. Eventually Reinny will shit can Gar/Pax but he is loyal to a fault and accepts mediocrity for a long time as long as those dollars keep rolling in.