OT: Eli Manning HOF?

[bamainatlanta]

Hall of Fame Debates: Eli Manning

When it comes to Eli Manning's candidacy, your opinion does not matter. Mike Tanier's doesn't either. Find out whose opinion matters in this final installment of our Hall of Fame debate series.

www.footballoutsiders.com

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It doesn't matter whether or not you think Eli Manning belongs in the Pro Football Hall of Fame. My opinion does not matter, either. You may be surprised to learn that the current opinions of many of the Hall of Fame voters themselves also don't matter all that much.

When it comes to the Great Eli Manning Hall of Fame Debate, Bill Belichick's opinion is the one that matters.

At some point soon, a few of the senior voters on the selection committee, the aristocracy of my industry who have built strong relationships with the NFL's most important individuals, will solicit Belichick's opinion on Manning's candidacy. They will do so privately and off the record, so Belichick will feel comfortable speaking candidly.

Belichick might tell them something like this: Golly, Eli was so ever-so-tough to prepare for! His regular-season statistics don't really capture how often he put the Giants in the right situation, got the ball to the right receiver, and did all the little things that make a quarterback truly great. I had to pull out all the stops in Super Bowl XLII and XLVI just to keep those games close, and he still got the better of us!

If Belichick provides this type of endorsement, it will sway the opinions of the skeptics and doubters on the committee, and Manning will sail into the Hall of Fame on the first ballot.

I think it's more likely that Belichick will say something like this: C'mon, you saw those games. The Giants defense killed us, not Manning! He was no harder to prepare for than Jake Delhomme or Donovan McNabb in that first batch of Super Bowls. He was a fine quarterback, but he's no all-time great......"

 

[msadows]

Yes, Eli is HOF bound, only because the nfl is getting ready for the next generation of manning super sperm.

 

[PrideisBears]

Yes he is HOF bound, no he doesn’t deserve it. Besides the iron man streak he had mediocre stats but happened to get hot twice in the playoffs. Even his super bowl stats are mediocre to just above average mainly remembered in a clutch catch by tyree

 

[airtime143]

I never did like him a single bit... But he is a lock for sure.

To be the opposing qb for the only team to beat brady in a super bowl, and do it twice, that assures a first ballot HOF spot.

That said, he was the 3rd best QB in his draft.

 

[Canth]

Honestly, imo, neither Eli or Philip Rivers belong in the HoF. Yes, they had longevity and stats at the qb position because of that. But, they need to stop automatically anointing every qb to the HoF just because they had a long career. That should not be HoF worthy. It should get you into the Hall of the Very Good, not the Hall of Fame.

 

[airtime143]

Honestly, imo, neither Eli or Philip Rivers belong in the HoF. Yes, they had longevity and stats at the qb position because of that. But, they need to stop automatically anointing every qb to the HoF just because they had a long career. That should not be HoF worthy. It should get you into the Hall of the Very Good, not the Hall of Fame.

I am totally a Rivers homer, but come on- 5th all time passing yards, 5th all time touchdowns thrown, and all the way down at 23 for ints thrown.
12th all time passer rating as it stands.

He had a shit team and a shittier o-line, yet he still beat Roethlisberger and manning in every last metric. he even had a longer start streak than manning.

It doesnt matter what team he played for- I would have the same opinion. He was a better passer than Manning and Roethlisberger from the same draft, and those 2 are locks for the HOF.

 

[ThatGuyRyan]

No, he doesn't belong. He got super fucking lucky with the helmet catch. 2014-2016 were his best years, and even those respective to other HOF quarterbacks were good, not great. The rest was mediocre to garbage.

 

[mattb78]

Absolutely NO WAY.
-Lifetime 84.1 QBR.
-1.5 TD to INT ratio.
-Best year was a 93.6 QBR. That doesn't even best Trubisky's best season. If you can't produce a season better than Mitch, the HOF is an absolute joke.

 

[airtime143]

No, he doesn't belong. He got super fucking lucky with the helmet catch. 2014-2016 were his best years, and even those respective to other HOF quarterbacks were good, not great. The rest was mediocre to garbage.

Blind lucky? yes.
Not very good except a couple hot streaks? Yes.

... but the 2 rings vs. the Brady led pats are gonna get him in easy. I hate it, but he will be in. Undoubtedly.

 

[mattb78]

If you let Kurt Warner in, you have to let Rivers in, because he did better for longer, just never got a ring.

I personally don't think Warner should have gotten in, and I would let Rivers in.

 

[mattb78]

The Giants scored 17 points and 21 points in those 2 super bowls, while holding NE to 14 and 17 points. Their defense won those games. No way they let Manning in for that crap.

Manning is nearly statistically identical to Joe Flacco. Those are not HOF QBs.

HOF QBs are MVP type players.

 

[modo]

The yards, the Superbowl, 4 probowls may be enough...

I don't think he should, but he has enough aggregate stats. I think the Voters will draw a line in the sand between Manning and Rivers for the HoF

 

[airtime143]

The Giants scored 17 points and 21 points in those 2 super bowls, while holding NE to 14 and 17 points. Their defense won those games. No way they let Manning in for that crap.

Manning is nearly statistically identical to Joe Flacco. Those are not HOF QBs.

HOF QBs are MVP type players.

If I run the voting on manning, I 100% agree with you.

But the guy is gonna get in, and it will happen year 1.
There will be all sorts of love for him "beating brady" and "beating" both Brett Favre and Aaron rodgers on the way in.

The optics are there to re-write his day to day play.

 

[Anytime23]

Absolutely NO WAY.
-Lifetime 84.1 QBR.
-1.5 TD to INT ratio.
-Best year was a 93.6 QBR. That doesn't even best Trubisky's best season. If you can't produce a season better than Mitch, the HOF is an absolute joke.

Trubisexuals are so pathetic.

 

[airtime143]

The yards, the Superbowl, 4 probowls may be enough...

I don't think he should, but he has enough aggregate stats. I think the Voters will draw a line in the sand between Manning and Rivers for the HoF

I would have thought so a few year back, but seeing Urlacher and Lewis go in the same year I dont think they will.
I think Rivers was just as if not more important to SD as Urlacher was to chicago.

Before the Lewis/urlacher year, I thought Lewis would get in year one and Urlacher solidly year 2.
Lewis had the rings, Urlacher did not, figured that would be the order.
Turns out the HOF voters were fair and voted individual talent as they should have.

 

[mattb78]

There will be all sorts of love for him "beating brady" and "beating" both Brett Favre and Aaron rodgers on the way in.

But the HOF voters are actual football people. Its not a popularity contest like the pro-bowl voting. Maybe I am not putting enough emphasis on having 2 super bowl rings. But if they put a QB in the HOF with an 84 career QBR it opens the door for a ton of other QBs to get in. I just don't see it.

 

[airtime143]

But the HOF voters are actual football people. Its not a popularity contest like the pro-bowl voting. Maybe I am not putting enough emphasis on having 2 super bowl rings. But if they put a QB in the HOF with an 84 career QBR it opens the door for a ton of other QBs to get in. I just don't see it.

I am with you on who he was, but to play devils advocate he really went to shit after 2012. I get the feeling that will be overlooked and they will focus on his 05-2012 where he was a solid player.
That stretch isnt enough without the super bowls,

4 years from now, they are going to look back at the time when the steelers and pats dominated the league and Manning will have 2 rings while Brees and rodgers have 1 each, Favre zero, and they will give him a spot.

 

[Bears4Ever_34]

It's a good debate. He was pretty much the opposite of his brother: mediocre regular season quarterback, but absolutely dynamite in the biggest of games, whereas Peyton was the king of the regular season and very ordinary when it came to the playoffs.

Eli lead the NFL in interceptions 3 times, which is pretty insane for a guy with 2 Superbowl rings. But those two Superbowl wins weren't just against any team, they were against the New England Patriots dynasty, including the one year they almost went undefeated; and it was the WAY he did it, too. Two absolutely miraculous come from behind wins on the final drive of the game. That is about as texbook as it gets when it comes to fairytale endings. It is awfully hard to just ignore that when you talk about a potential Hall of Fame bid.

However, in saying all of that, I'm not sure those two games are enough to override the sheer mediocrity of the rest of his career, and his playoff numbers overall are only marginally better than his career regular season passer rating (84 to 87 in the playoffs).

I think he gets in, but I'd probably still lean towards no. Eli's case is probably one of the craziest debates you'll ever find in NFL history. I don't think you'll find another example of a player with career lows as bad as Eli's with also the same amount of highs. Like, the highest of highs.

 

[Les Grossman]

I am totally a Rivers homer, but come on- 5th all time passing yards, 5th all time touchdowns thrown, and all the way down at 23 for ints thrown.
12th all time passer rating as it stands.

He had a shit team and a shittier o-line, yet he still beat Roethlisberger and manning in every last metric. he even had a longer start streak than manning.

It doesnt matter what team he played for- I would have the same opinion. He was a better passer than Manning and Roethlisberger from the same draft, and those 2 are locks for the HOF.

Rivers had a shit team? Since when were the LaDamian Tomlinson years shit?

 

[Les Grossman]

If you let Kurt Warner in, you have to let Rivers in, because he did better for longer, just never got a ring.

I personally don't think Warner should have gotten in, and I would let Rivers in.

Disagree, Warner was part of a game changing offense that stood above the rest. The "Rams Offense" will always be recognized. What can you say about Eli except that he beat Brady in the SB twice?